LDS Mamas and Papas #39 - Page 11

[guestmama9911]

Originally Posted by ValarieR

Okay guys, I need help (terry fam, I'm talking mostly to you!)...

I am against skirts. period. When I see a woman in a skirt, I see a woman who is more easily raped, a person who can not do physical activity as easily, a person who is telling the world how useless they are... so I don't wear them.

Well, apparently it is now a rule, for the Orlando temple at least, that any woman in the sealing room must be in a skirt. I'm having to go spend money I don't have on something that makes me feel dirty so I can go see my cousin get married. I need to know WHY it is so important! Some of my worst memories were only made possible by the fact that I was wearing a skirt, yet I am supposed to wear one... why?

Help me understand this, please...

~Valarie~

I don't know why your temple made it a rule, but you can change at the temple. You could wear a nice pantsuit in and then change into a skirt just for the sealing and then change back into the pantsuit before leaving. Nice skirts can befound at a second hand store, or if you sew, a broomstick skirt can be made easy and cheaply.

I can see how you would feel uncomfortable in a skirt outside the temple, but inside the temple you are safe and do not need to feel vulnerable or at risk.

[klg47]

Originally Posted by ValarieR

When I see a woman in a skirt, I see . . . a person who is telling the world how useless they are

Originally Posted by ValarieR

I think something was lost here in the reading- I don't see women who choose to wear skirts as useless. Historically, things like skirts and high heels were worn by people to purposefully display that they did not work.

Historically, when - the 1500's, or the 1990's? The image in my mind of a modern high-powered working woman (let's say a lawyer, for example) always includes high heels and a skirt! :

[guestmama9911]

Skirts didn't equal power until the 70's and 80's when women really started climbing the corporate ladder. But that's irrelevent to the discussion. I can absolutely understand why Valarie feels the way she does about skirts. It's a valid concern when you've had those experiences.

[LDSmomma6]

Originally Posted by alisaterry

I can absolutely understand why Valarie feels the way she does about skirts. It's a valid concern when you've had those experiences.

True. But this is the Temple. Suppose to be like heaven. When I go to the Temple I feel so much better then in the outside world. And no one is going to care if she has on biker shorts or something like that under a skirt. No one is going to check. Heck, my 5 yr old DD will only wear dresses to school if she has on a pair of shorts too. No one will care. Really, they won't. And then take off the skirt when you get done with the sealing, like others said.

But you better get used to the dresses/skirts idea. I feel when we are in Heaven, we ladies won't have a choice, and I doubt we will be given a pair of shorts to wear beneath.



Oh, and I found a cheap ticket...less then $200 roundtrip for DS to fly to his PROM, on Southwest Airlines. Yea! I don't have to drive him there now.

[quarteralien]

Originally Posted by LDSmomma6

But you better get used to the dresses/skirts idea. I feel when we are in Heaven, we ladies won't have a choice, and I doubt we will be given a pair of shorts to wear beneath.

But it will be our choices that get us there. Why would they be taken from us once we're there? I dont' get it.

[LDSmomma6]

Originally Posted by quarteralien

But it will be our choices that get us there. Why would they be taken from us once we're there? I dont' get it.

Don't ask me hard questions! From all the church movies I have seen, all ladies are in dresses/skirts in heaven.

[guestmama9911]

Originally Posted by LDSmomma6

Don't ask me hard questions! From all the church movies I have seen, all ladies are in dresses/skirts in heaven.

Ad so are the men. Everyone's in robes.

[quarteralien]

I'm guessing that whatever is going to go on there is something that we can't quite comprehend in our current mortal state, so I wouldn't worry too much about what we'll all be wearing.

[guestmama9911]

Originally Posted by quarteralien

I'm guessing that whatever is going to go on there is something that we can't quite comprehend in our current mortal state, so I wouldn't worry too much about what we'll all be wearing.

Touché.

[emma_goldman]

I would just walk into the temple with those really wide-legged pants that are tea-length (kinda hard to tell if they are not a skirt) and knee-highs and dressy shoes. and have a backup skirt in your purse for if you really need it.

[ValarieR]

Originally Posted by alisaterry

I don't know why your temple made it a rule, but you can change at the temple. You could wear a nice pantsuit in and then change into a skirt just for the sealing and then change back into the pantsuit before leaving. Nice skirts can befound at a second hand store, or if you sew, a broomstick skirt can be made easy and cheaply.

I can see how you would feel uncomfortable in a skirt outside the temple, but inside the temple you are safe and do not need to feel vulnerable or at risk.

Thanks for this- I went to buy a skirt today... I found one that fit, and my mom got it for me since we're broke. It was the best I could find, but I still feel a bit trashy in it. I'm planning to go ahead and wear it to the temple, and then change just after the sealing- I worry that changing just before would be distracting to those around me.

Originally Posted by LDSmomma6

True. But this is the Temple. Suppose to be like heaven. When I go to the Temple I feel so much better then in the outside world.

But you better get used to the dresses/skirts idea. I feel when we are in Heaven, we ladies won't have a choice, and I doubt we will be given a pair of shorts to wear beneath.

I'm so glad you feel better at the temple- unfortunately, I have had other members be very rude there as well, so I know that the temple is only as much of a haven as I make it.

Possible TMI alert:
In an attempt to erase all of the bad memories I have had in skirts, I put on my new one tonight and came onto my dh- I figure making love with him can erase abuse better than anything else. Well, it sort of backfired... I got really sick to my stomach and upset and had to stop. I plan to try again b/c I know that most mormons will expect me to conform the their idea of what I should be, so I should probably learn not to hate them as much.

I never would have imagined that something so small as a piece of fabric would cause me so much turmoil...

Thanks again, Alisa... I wish there were women in my ward like you.

~Valarie~

[klg47]

Valarie - I hope I haven't upset or offended you I was **really** rubbed the wrong the way by the 'useless' part and don't see how you could have intended it to come across differently, but I do intellectually understand your reasoning for not wanting to wear skirts (I can't say I understand totally because I've never experienced it).

So know that I'm asking this seriously, and not judgementally What do you wear in the temple, during the sessions? I have heard of women wearing pants to church (haven't actually seen it; just heard of it), but it never even crossed my mind that someone would do the same at the temple. It makes sense if they wear pants to church they'd do the same in the temple, but it literally never occurred to me before. As I said, I love to wear dresses, so it didn't occur to me that someone wouldn't *want* to wear a dress there

[The main woman I've heard of who wears pants to church says she does it to challenge others' tolerance. I thought that was a really sketchy reason I figure that if we have our own personal reasons for doing something, great, but we shouldn't be doing it solely to rile people up or 'test' them.]

[guestmama9911]

During sessions, she would have to wear a temple dress, but since they are sacred and cover most of the body, I imagine they would have a different feel to it.

Valarie - that's not TMI. I was emotionally and sexually abused by a former boyfriend, so I know what you mean when you say you make love with your husband to change the meaning of something (or some place).

We are never given a commandment without also being given the strength and means to keep that commandment, as Nephi teaches. If you and your husband hold a fast before the temple sealing, you will miraculously find the power within you to enjoy the experience. If you tell us when you are fasting, we will do it with you (modified for me since I'm still nursing, but it will still count).

[Stacymom]

I didn't go to church today. Physically, I'm feeling okay, but I couldn't face it. I couldn't handle all the sympathetic glances, the well meaning but dumb comments, and people wanting me to tell them how I'm doing. I couldn't face trying to be brave and hold myself together for three hours.

This is more difficult than I thought it would be. I think the post partum hormone dump is in full swing, and I am struggling to do the most basic of things. Its hard to face real life when I haven't even adjusted to what happened to me this past week. I feel like I need the world to stop for a while until I can deal with this and get past it.

[ValarieR]

Originally Posted by klg47

Valarie - I hope I haven't upset or offended you I was **really** rubbed the wrong the way by the 'useless' part and don't see how you could have intended it to come across differently, but I do intellectually understand your reasoning for not wanting to wear skirts (I can't say I understand totally because I've never experienced it).

I don't get offended easily- just a little frustrated. I guess I have a difficult time explaining the difference between how I feel about things for *my* life and how I feel about the same things in *other people's* lives.

Originally Posted by klg47

So know that I'm asking this seriously, and not judgementally What do you wear in the temple, during the sessions? I have heard of women wearing pants to church (haven't actually seen it; just heard of it), but it never even crossed my mind that someone would do the same at the temple. It makes sense if they wear pants to church they'd do the same in the temple, but it literally never occurred to me before. As I said, I love to wear dresses, so it didn't occur to me that someone wouldn't *want* to wear a dress there

I wear a white temple dress during sessions because it is required- I can't fulfill that obligation unless I wear it. I am uncomfortable, but I have faith that one day I will be okay with that and maybe even like it.

Originally Posted by klg47

[The main woman I've heard of who wears pants to church says she does it to challenge others' tolerance. I thought that was a really sketchy reason I figure that if we have our own personal reasons for doing something, great, but we shouldn't be doing it solely to rile people up or 'test' them.]

This whole thing irritates me! Church is not the place for social psychology experiments!!! Church should be the place we got to grow closer to other followers of Christ, and we should be allowed to be comfortable there- I don't condone doing things just to challenge others, and I know there are people in my ward who think that is what I am doing... I have a much easier time telling all of you my deepest feelings than them because, if you judge me harshly, at least I don't have to see it :

Originally Posted by alisaterry

Valarie - that's not TMI. I was emotionally and sexually abused by a former boyfriend, so I know what you mean when you say you make love with your husband to change the meaning of something (or some place).

I'm sorry you have had to deal with this as well... far too many of us have had to... I am just so thankful that my husband tries to understand how these things may affect me. He makes it much easier.

Originally Posted by alisaterry

We are never given a commandment without also being given the strength and means to keep that commandment, as Nephi teaches. If you and your husband hold a fast before the temple sealing, you will miraculously find the power within you to enjoy the experience. If you tell us when you are fasting, we will do it with you (modified for me since I'm still nursing, but it will still count).

We have considered fasting, but I am not going to. I am insulin resistant, so when I fast I get weak and pass out. I only do it if I am close to home. I would rather eat something and have strength- I am praying that the joy of the wedding distracts me from any discomfort I may feel.

Originally Posted by Stacymom

I didn't go to church today. Physically, I'm feeling okay, but I couldn't face it. I couldn't handle all the sympathetic glances, the well meaning but dumb comments, and people wanting me to tell them how I'm doing. I couldn't face trying to be brave and hold myself together for three hours.

This is more difficult than I thought it would be. I think the post partum hormone dump is in full swing, and I am struggling to do the most basic of things. Its hard to face real life when I haven't even adjusted to what happened to me this past week. I feel like I need the world to stop for a while until I can deal with this and get past it.

I am so sorry you are having such a hard time. Have you considered counseling? I know lds social services offers it for little $... You are worth the time and effort to seek help

~Valarie~

[seren]

Originally Posted by Stacymom

I didn't go to church today. Physically, I'm feeling okay, but I couldn't face it. I couldn't handle all the sympathetic glances, the well meaning but dumb comments, and people wanting me to tell them how I'm doing. I couldn't face trying to be brave and hold myself together for three hours.

This is more difficult than I thought it would be. I think the post partum hormone dump is in full swing, and I am struggling to do the most basic of things. Its hard to face real life when I haven't even adjusted to what happened to me this past week. I feel like I need the world to stop for a while until I can deal with this and get past it.

I am so sorry. It can be so hard. I don't blame you for not going. You are in my prayers.

Originally Posted by alisaterry

Valarie - that's not TMI. I was emotionally and sexually abused by a former boyfriend, so I know what you mean when you say you make love with your husband to change the meaning of something (or some place).

I think I'm a bit confused by this. I was molested countless times as a child. SOmetimes while dh and I are intimate I have flashbacks. They have lessened over the years thankfully. Dh is wonderful and very understanding. There is one specific thing I can't get past and sometimes it makes it difficult to just lie together. So I am very intrigued by anything that would get rid of this feeling. I never even though about just dioing this thing that is so hard for me.


On another note church was so nice today. We had minimal disruptions. Dh had to go out once, but that was it. We both got to hear most of sm, me all of it. We didn't go to Gospel Doctrine though. We have such a small room for the number of people that it gets so overheated and I get dizzy. I did go to Relief Society. Just such an improvement from last week and previos weeks.

[ValarieR]

Originally Posted by seren

I think I'm a bit confused by this. I was molested countless times as a child. SOmetimes while dh and I are intimate I have flashbacks. They have lessened over the years thankfully. Dh is wonderful and very understanding. There is one specific thing I can't get past and sometimes it makes it difficult to just lie together. So I am very intrigued by anything that would get rid of this feeling. I never even though about just dioing this thing that is so hard for me.

For me, when the bad things happened it wasn't my choice, and I wasn't in control. When I put myself and dh in very similar situations it is my choice and I am in control of it- often, this helps to make things that were once scary a little less so.

~Valarie~

[danaalex]

valarie, i just wanted to give you some hugs!!!! i have no clue what you are going through, but i can't imagine having to do something or wear something that would bring up bad memories or make me feel badly about myself.

i don't really get the whole skirt issue either. i am not usually a conformist, but for me i don't have an emotional connection to skirts so it's easier. would i prefer to NOT wear a dress or a skirt, YES!!!! i do not like either in the least bit and now that i'm pg and all i want to wear are yoga pants, putting a skirt on for sundays is just about the most difficult this to do.

HUGS, HUGS and more HUGS!!!!!! i think you are a very strong person!!!

[klg47]

Originally Posted by Stacymom

I didn't go to church today. Physically, I'm feeling okay, but I couldn't face it. I couldn't handle all the sympathetic glances, the well meaning but dumb comments, and people wanting me to tell them how I'm doing. I couldn't face trying to be brave and hold myself together for three hours.

I haven't been in your position, but I've imagined it, and I can easily understand not wanting to go! I'm not sure what else to say, except again

[Laurel]

I wouldn't have gone to church either Stacy. I think the Lord understands. It's OK to let the world stop for awhile.