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LDS Mamas and Papas #39 - Page 4

post #61 of 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly1216
I don't quite understand your spirtual quest thing. I really don't believe that that would satisfy the commandment to go on a mission, and I really believe that it could open up the potential for your teens to abuse the "paid for" aspect and not really diligently quest. Although, I guess if they choose to take the quest instead of a mission (the easy way out in my opinion) then they probably shouldn't go on a mission b/c they're probably not ready and wouldn't be successful missionaries. I don't mean to offend you in any way, but I just don't see it as a very good idea to offer that.
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post #62 of 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly1216 View Post
Good news for me! I had a talk with dh last night, and he agreed to research and pray about circ'ing a son if we ever have one! I'm stoked that he's willing to do it, and actually gave me the impression that he will probably agree with me that we should not do it! Although, if he legitimately researches, how could he not agree with me! Also, he agreed to pray and research about vaccines (whether delay/selectively or not at all, or or to continue on schedule), although he didn't sound quite as convinced on this one. But he agreed no more chickenpox or flu vaccines, nor the guardisil (sp?). Yay for baby steps!!
I'm making baby steps with my DH too. No circ was his idea, so I didn't have to push for that one! But he is also researching vaxes and like yours already agrees cp, flu and hpv are bad ideas. We'll see about the rest. And he's researching home birth. I am keeping him busy! This last has me worried. I hate New York. It is such a state of fear.
post #63 of 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by quarteralien View Post
I'm making baby steps with my DH too. No circ was his idea, so I didn't have to push for that one! But he is also researching vaxes and like yours already agrees cp, flu and hpv are bad ideas. We'll see about the rest. And he's researching home birth. I am keeping him busy! This last has me worried. I hate New York. It is such a state of fear.
It's interesting to learn how people respond to things. For instance, pushing/enouraging my dh to research homebirth didn't seem to be getting the response I wanted. When I got pregnant with my 2nd, I made an appointment with a homebirth midwife instead of the CNMs. I didn't ask dh if I could do it, I just did it. I was not secretive about it - he knew she was a homebirth midwife, and he came to all the appointments with me. He never protested against it, so I took that as his acceptance. Now that we've had a homebirth, he's a big advocate He's still uneducated about some things, but it's OK (for instance, he still thinks CNM's are "better" than direct-entry midwives, because they essentially have master's degrees in midwifery).
post #64 of 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by klg47 View Post
It's interesting to learn how people respond to things. For instance, pushing/enouraging my dh to research homebirth didn't seem to be getting the response I wanted. When I got pregnant with my 2nd, I made an appointment with a homebirth midwife instead of the CNMs. I didn't ask dh if I could do it, I just did it. I was not secretive about it - he knew she was a homebirth midwife, and he came to all the appointments with me. He never protested against it, so I took that as his acceptance. Now that we've had a homebirth, he's a big advocate He's still uneducated about some things, but it's OK (for instance, he still thinks CNM's are "better" than direct-entry midwives, because they essentially have master's degrees in midwifery).
And are schooled in the medical model before they have that masters'. I'm thinking that's what's going to have to happen for us too. Problem is, there aren't any legal homebirth midwives in our part of the state. No doctor here will back them up, so they work underground. But that isn't the real reason UC appeals to me. I'm willing to consider a midwife for DH's sake, but he knows I can't stand the thought of going to a hospital again. *sigh* I shouldn't worry about this now. I'm still infertile : but I don't like wondering how we will work this out next time. I'm sure he'll come around though. We wives just have to take the lead sometimes. I hope my DH joins yours in advocacy.
post #65 of 575
missions are not for everyone. it's not a popular truth, but it is one. there can be several reasons why someone feels a mission isn't for them and every single one is valid because it is them we're talking about, not us. i understand we have commandments and the boys have been encouraged to serve a full time mission, but it's not always best or even doable for all. i knew a guy who was told 'oh you *must* go on a mission! you simply *have* to! it's a commandment and anything else would be wrong.' he just didn't feel like he should, but trusted in that it was his duty. he had a nervous breakdown while on his mission and fell into a deep depression. he was sent home early. of course there were those who wouldn't support that because he should have 'toughed it out' and 'not taken the easy path' etc etc. surprise surprise, he is now no longer a member where he had once been so faithful. being told something like a mission in the church is totally doable for everyone and a *must* and then having it blow up in your face when you *knew* it wasn't for you but were force fed the idea it was is enough to shake anyone to the core. i will encourage my sons (ha! like i will ever have them!) and my daughters to go on missions, IF THEY SO CHOSE. i will not tell them they *have to* because that just isn't true. they need to do what they feel is best. if one is extremely uncomfortable with the idea of a mission, force is going to back fire. even if it's 'forceful encouragement'. just thought i'd throw that out there.

Emma- may i ask what sort of spiritual retreat? to me, a mission is just that and the opportunity to bring other's into the fold. share in the wealth of the gospel. i, personally, would not choose one over the other if both options were available. my children might, but i'm not paying for it. truth be told, a mission might not be affordable for us either. they might have to put themselves through that, too. : just curious what sort and why you feel the need to 'think outside the box'? do you not think a mission is spiritually fulfilling for those who serve?
post #66 of 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leiahs View Post
I just don't want to subject my son(s) to unnecessary procedures based on a blanket rule for all missionaries. But I also don't want to make life difficult for them by trying to get around it all.
Well... I guess I figure if it's a rule for all missionaries, then the Lord Himself must agree with it, or have made it a rule Himself. Also, the young man can decide for himself, can't he? He will be the age of majority BEFORE he even puts in paper to serve a mission- so I suppose he can decide for himself. If it's a big deal to him not to have vax's or wisdom teeth removed, then he can forgo the mission if he chooses.

I know epsecially if my son was going to another country I'd definitely make sure his vaccinations were up to date- I just couldn't stand it if he caught some horrible disease that could have totally been prevented. Also those wisdom teeth would come out- because even though the removal of mine was horrible and recovery was worse- they were killing me for several years before I finally had them removed. I just wish we'd done it while I was still in highschool with a dentist I knew and trusted, instead of having to have it done at BYU with the fruitloop that did it!

That's just my two cents worth, as usual. :

~A.
post #67 of 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by quarteralien View Post
I'm making baby steps with my DH too. No circ was his idea, so I didn't have to push for that one! But he is also researching vaxes and like yours already agrees cp, flu and hpv are bad ideas. We'll see about the rest. And he's researching home birth.
Isn't it funny? When I think about all the changes in thought and philosophy that my dh and I have gone through in the seven years we've been married, I have to laugh. I had a friend who had a homebirth 5 or so year ago, and I thought she was incredibly crazy! And look at me now!

My dh has been adamantly opposed to homebirth, and irate when the topic of not circ'ing came up. It really is a good thing we have two girls, because I don't think I would have been able to do anything about it up till now. But the rule we made is that neither of us is allowed to unilaterally make a decision that affects both of us, and we either both need to research and come to a conclusion together, or the one who has done the most study gets to make the decision. For example, he was furious when I even mentioned not circ'ing, but refused to read about it, study it, or even talk about it. Its taken me four years, and my dh;s best friend being intact before not circ'ing any boys became a reality.

As far as hb, I've been working that angle for a long time too. DH didn't even want to talk about it when I first found out I was pregnant with this baby. I made a phone call to a mdwife anyway. It took some gentle manipulation, but I told dh that he had a duty to me to at least meet with a midwife. I told him that after peppering her with all the questions he could think of, if he still didn't feel comfortable with the decsion, then we could reevaluate. Luckily, the meeting went well, and I think dh started to see that it really did mean a lot to me and consented. In the past few weeks, I think he's really started to see the advantages of it.

On a totally separate topic, anyonein need of a slightly used 5 1/2 yr old girl who, although very bright, apparantly has no ablilty to follow simple household rules or be obedient?
post #68 of 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABC's&123's
Well... I guess I figure if it's a rule for all missionaries, then the Lord Himself must agree with it, or have made it a rule Himself. Also, the young man can decide for himself, can't he? He will be the age of majority BEFORE he even puts in paper to serve a mission- so I suppose he can decide for himself. If it's a big deal to him not to have vax's or wisdom teeth removed, then he can forgo the mission if he chooses.

I know epsecially if my son was going to another country I'd definitely make sure his vaccinations were up to date- I just couldn't stand it if he caught some horrible disease that could have totally been prevented. Also those wisdom teeth would come out- because even though the removal of mine was horrible and recovery was worse- they were killing me for several years before I finally had them removed. I just wish we'd done it while I was still in highschool with a dentist I knew and trusted, instead of having to have it done at BYU with the fruitloop that did it!
Well said!
post #69 of 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacymom
On a totally separate topic, anyonein need of a slightly used 5 1/2 yr old girl who, although very bright, apparantly has no ablilty to follow simple household rules or be obedient?
You have one too? Mine is driving me freakin' crazy!! :
post #70 of 575
You know this whole discussion about missions has been interesting to me. I believe they actually changed the rules. Don't quote me on this but I believe that have to have read the Bible and BoM all the way through and have the testimony before they go. With the whole "it's commnadment" a lot of guys were going who were serious. For instance, dh had a companion who went to movies. Was that why his parents were paying for him to go on a mission? I mean a mission is supposed to be for our spirtual growth. We need to be prepared and we need to want to do it. There are those who don't want to go and really should, for their own spirituality. You really need to pray about it and find out what is best for you.

Like some of us have said, getting your wisdom teeth out isn't a law and neither is getting the vax's done. HF knows who we are and he knows there are things more important than whether we want to get a vax or not. And that's why I'm saying he knows us. If we have gotten an answer not to vaxed than he will work it out. If we've gotten an answer to vax, they will work it out.

I can bring something else up others feel is important to who we are but I don't care about. i don't care if my boys are eagles. i don't care if they do scouts. I personally feel I can teach my kids these things. Being an Eagle doesn't get you further in life like the leaders try to tell you. My aunt had this rule that her boys couldn't get their licenses unless they get their eagle. I personally don't care
post #71 of 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDSmomma6 View Post
You have one too? Mine is driving me freakin' crazy!! :
I have an extremely cute baby who has an ear infection and is teething...

Nah, the price would be too high for anyone....
post #72 of 575
My mommy brain had me totally forgetting about the idea of a young man actually being able to be a grown up and make his own decisions in preparation for a mission. It's hard to think of my son beyond the 18 month old demanding toddler that he is Of course, he will be able to make his own decisions by the time he is ready for a mission, and he'll be able to pray for himself and figure out what works for him.

And yes, the guidelines for a mission have changed quite a bit. Not everyone who even wants to go will be deemed worthy to go. They really are expected to be much more spiritually prepared. The word valiant comes to mind. They can't just be good boys who aren't doing anything wrong. They need to be so much more, now...really cream of the crop. That's the impression I remember feeling, at least, when they discussed these changes (in general conference, wasn't it?). I guess that makes my job as the mom so much more demanding, too - I really need to make sure I'm actively teaching the gospel in our home, and emulating its principles and being a good example.
post #73 of 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABC's&123's View Post
I'd definitely make sure his vaccinations were up to date- I just couldn't stand it if he caught some horrible disease that could have totally been prevented.
The thing you have to understand about those who choose not to vaccinate is that they're not afraid of vaccine-preventable diseases, nor do they believe that the vaccines will necessarily prevent the diseases. If they are scared of the diseases, and they think that vaccines will prevent them, they should be vaccinating!
post #74 of 575
I used to not care one way the other about scouting until I got called to be a Cub den leader. (Even though I came from a scouting family.) Now, I definitely see the value of scouting for boys. I like it because it gives boys the chance to delve into a lot of different areas of potential interest. It seems like otherwise all young boys are into is sports, and maybe occasionally music. In Cub Scouting, they get chances to explore many different areas of interest, and in Boy Scouting, they get to dig deeper and gain expertise in these areas. Scouting also teaches values that are consistent with the gospel. I don't think I would make earning the Eagle a requirement for anything else, but I would defintely encourage my sons to earn it. I think that working so hard on any long-term, difficult goal would be helpful to a young man. (And a young woman, too.) Plus, the Eagle projects are always service-oriented, and I think it's really good for these young men to devote significant time and effort toward an effort that helps the community or a person in need. I'd like to think I could structure those opportunities for my kids, but in reality I know it wouldn't happen. I know myself.

It is true that the standards for missionaries have been made higher, and I think that is a good thing. I also think the decision to go must ultimately be up to the young man or woman. However, I do see it as more than just one of several good choices. I see it as a priesthood obligation for young men, and the decision to not go would be an extremely serious decision, not just, "Oh, I don't feel like it, I want to go to school, it would be too hard." I don't think that the primary purpose of a mission to to be a spiritual quest, though there is defintely great spiritual growth that comes from it. The purpose is to fulfill the obligation to take the gospel to the ends of the earth. Many of the blessings of missions come through sacrifice, humility, and obedience (obedience to the call to go, and obedience while there), and it's hard for me to see other, more self-driven "quests" filling those criteria. Choosing your spiritual quest is much different than submitting to go where you're called, and submitting to the leadership of others while you are there. To me, part of the value of the mission experience is that you don't get to pick what you will do or where you will go. You don't bail out when it stops being fun or fulfilling (of course I'm not referring to legitimate health issues or big trials that necessitate coming home). But I can see myself going on my own spiritual quest that was of my own doing, and bailing right out or changing my course when the going got tough.

Now, my mission wasn't necessarily the happiest, most wonderful experience. I battled depression the whole time. I went to a mission with many disobedient missionaries (which is a lot why I think the obedience aspect is SO important!), and it disillusioned me. It wasn't until I got home and had roommates whose missions were so much different that I stopped feeling so cynical. My mission was still valuable in helping me be who I am today, and I was still blessed for going. I really didn't want to go, but when I was 21, I had some very spiritual experiences letting me know that it was where I was supposed to be.
post #75 of 575
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
missions are not for everyone. it's not a popular truth, but it is one.
It's true. That's why a couple of years ago the Church tightened the standards for going on a mission. The thing is ... the Bishop (if he's doing his job right) is supposed to interview every 18 yo and ask them if they've thought of a mission and discuss with them the pros and cons of serving a mission and help them feel prepared if they don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
i will encourage my sons (ha! like i will ever have them!) and my daughters to go on missions, IF THEY SO CHOSE. i will not tell them they *have to* because that just isn't true.
That's exactly it. That's what I plan to do with DS and every other one our children (when they come). It's as Joseph Smith said: "I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves." If I have done my job properly as a parent in the Gospel when DS turns 19 he should have the idea of going on a mission in the back of his head already and know that it is something that he needs to decide to do. Whether or not he goes is up to him. I can't force him to follow a commandment of the Lord.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
truth be told, a mission might not be affordable for us either.
If this is true, Mags, then that is what the Missionary Fund is for. The Bishop and the Ward/Branch and the Church should be able to help.
post #76 of 575
Stacymom, thanks for the good wishes. I'm doing well so far; I'm further along in a pg than I've been since M was born, so I'm starting to think that this pg might actually stick. But the time is going sooooo sloooooowly.
post #77 of 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by marlygf View Post
You know this whole discussion about missions has been interesting to me. I believe they actually changed the rules. Don't quote me on this but I believe that have to have read the Bible and BoM all the way through and have the testimony before they go. With the whole "it's commnadment" a lot of guys were going who were serious. For instance, dh had a companion who went to movies. Was that why his parents were paying for him to go on a mission? I mean a mission is supposed to be for our spirtual growth. We need to be prepared and we need to want to do it. There are those who don't want to go and really should, for their own spirituality. You really need to pray about it and find out what is best for you.
this just reminded me of when i went to live with my aunt. my cousins lived together, on their own and i would spend the weekends with them. well they were showing me these pictures of all their friends sitting around and drinking. they were naming them all off but they skipped over two. so i asked who they were. turns out they were missionaries who had come to their door (cousins are members but don't want to be). they would party together an one missionary had a relationship with one of their friends, sexual in nature. before i came he was sent home. i was 15 at the time and never ever thought something like that could happen.
post #78 of 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewCrunchyDaddy View Post
It's true. That's why a couple of years ago the Church tightened the standards for going on a mission. The thing is ... the Bishop (if he's doing his job right) is supposed to interview every 18 yo and ask them if they've thought of a mission and discuss with them the pros and cons of serving a mission and help them feel prepared if they don't.
yes. unfortunately some still feel the need to put the pressure on, which is a disservice, IMO.

Quote:
That's exactly it. That's what I plan to do with DS and every other one our children (when they come). It's as Joseph Smith said: "I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves." If I have done my job properly as a parent in the Gospel when DS turns 19 he should have the idea of going on a mission in the back of his head already and know that it is something that he needs to decide to do. Whether or not he goes is up to him. I can't force him to follow a commandment of the Lord.
just word everything better than me, that's fine.

Quote:
If this is true, Mags, then that is what the Missionary Fund is for. The Bishop and the Ward/Branch and the Church should be able to help.
i have heard of this. it's pretty sad because we don't have to rely on other's the the church to do something that is *our* responsibility. we're hoping, by then IF it even happens, that we'll be able to pay for most if not all. don't even get me started on college! : DH says that whenever missions come up he is thankful to have 3 girls. i gently remind him that they can still go.
post #79 of 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
this just reminded me of when i went to live with my aunt. my cousins lived together, on their own and i would spend the weekends with them. well they were showing me these pictures of all their friends sitting around and drinking. they were naming them all off but they skipped over two. so i asked who they were. turns out they were missionaries who had come to their door (cousins are members but don't want to be). they would party together an one missionary had a relationship with one of their friends, sexual in nature. before i came he was sent home. i was 15 at the time and never ever thought something like that could happen.

I've heard some awful stories about missionaries from dh. There was one set where he was that brought him and his companion donuts one day. After they had eaten them the other missionaries laughed and threw polaroid pics on the table and left. When dh and his copm looked at them, they were picks of the other two missionaries masturbating with the donuts.

We had some missionaries here a few years ago. We liked them at first, but as they were here for dinner we started liking them less and less. One of them had been shotgunned from his previous area because he and his companion would spend the night at someone house while his companion slept with his girlfriend. THe one with the girlfriend was sent home. When the other one was here with his new comp they would tell us things they would do. Every Sunday night they would go *undercover* with a local baptist church youth roller skating. They said they went undercover so they could ask the kids questions to make them question their own religion, but I'm not so sure that is true. Dh and I totally did not feel great having them in our home. The spirit changed and not like it usually does when the missionaries come. THe one elder was eventually sent home, too. My parents love him. They get so excited when he comes to visit. My mom calls me all excited and just doesn't get it when I really don't care. Oh well.
post #80 of 575
Oh and about teaching kids about missions. I was always told we teach our children that they will serve missions. It was explained to me that the prophet says they serve missions and we obey the prophet, so it's taught like that. Just like paying tithing, going to church, getting married in the temple, etc. Obviously we haven't gotten that far yet, so I don't know.
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