Do You Believe In Gender Equality? (Debate Fodder)

[pdx.mothernurture]

I created this to instigate discussion on debate boards. What do you think?

Fact: Healthy, normal males and females are both born with a foreskin or "prepuce". The sheath of skin covering the penis and the clitoral hood are anatomically analogous structures that protect the glans (glans penis and glans clitoris, respectively), keeping their surface smooth, thin, slightly moist, glossy, rich in color, and ultra-sensitive.

Fact: The most common form of male circumcision removes the male prepuce, the foreskin.

Fact: The most common form of female circumcision removes the female prepuce, the clitoral hood.

Both are chosen electively by some parents for personal, cultural, cosmetic, or religious reasons or because of perceived health benefits---although no major medical organization on the planet recommends routine circumcision of either gender for any reason.

Fact: There has been a worldwide movement to abolish medically unnecessary genital cutting done on female children.
It has been criminalized in all forms in many countries around the globe.

Do you believe in gender equality?

Can you objectively look outside of your own cultural conditioning?

If so, do you believe:

A.) Non-consentual prepuce amputation of male and female children done without clear, pressing medical indications in accordance with parental wishes for personal, cultural, cosmetic, or religious reasons or for perceived health benefits should be universally banned.

B.) Non-consentual prepuce amputation of male and female children done without clear, pressing medical indications in accordance with parental wishes for personal, cultural, cosmetic, or religious reasons or for perceived health benefits should be universally legal.

Thank you for sharing your answers, reactions, and reflections.

Jen

PS. Feel free to tweak/borrow

[Mommiska]

I think that's excellent - very easy to follow, concise and thought-provoking.

If anyone uses this elsewhere, could you PM me with the board, so I can see how it goes (and maybe chip in my 2cents worth)?

[jee'smom]

that's awesome!

[Cassiopeia]

Very good.

[Ivan's Mom]

I choose letter A
Yes, letter A
No doubt about it, letter A
Let me clear about this, letter A
My answer is A

[pdx.mothernurture]

If anyone tries this, let us know the results in as vague of terms as possible; remember, we can't discuss other boards specifically or quote posts. Just an idea of the general reaction & issues that arrise would be helpful. I've posted it two places so far. So far, the results have all been "Letter A". I have no doubt circumcising parents are reading, but they aren't posting.

To stir the discussion a bit, I asked:

I'm curious as to why, with all of the circumcising parents that visit this board, not one poster has suggested female prepuce amputation should be legal.

It's rather surprising, given the perception of foreskin as 'just a piece of extra skin'.

Little girls (future women) don't really *need* a protective covering for their clitorises, do they?

If the surface of the clitoris dries and thickens, they'll never know what they're missing, would they?

Clitoral hood removal (sunna circumcision) wouldn't affect procreation or the sensitivity of the g-spot.

Nothing yet.

Jen

[jessjgh1]

Do you think that most people are going to see this:

Fact: The most common form of male circumcision removes the male prepuce, the foreskin.
Fact: The most common form of female circumcision removes the female prepuce, the clitoral hood.

and just say, well the foreskin is still just a flap of skin, but the clitoris is the most sensitive part (typically) for a women? And then be dismissive?

Would it make sense to include a quick factoid about both parts, so this could not easily be quite so easily discounted.

I understand,that looking at this through the lense of gender equality this should NOT matter, but I don't think that many people are going to be that objective. Plus, pointing out the foreskin has a sexual function and has touch receptors (or other facts) has the added benefit of informing.

Just a thought/question/suggestion

Jessica

[pdx.mothernurture]

jessjgh1,

That's a good part. I also thought it would be good to be prepared with some information on FGM types-particularly sunna circumcision-in case anyone challenges it.

Once a discussion gets going, there's usually room for lots more educating/information-interjection as well. So far though, circumcising parents seem extremely timid. I wonder why that is? [note sarcasm]

Jen

[jessjgh1]

Well, if you decide to make a revision... I know of a board that you could post on to test it out, LOL although there are more intactivists than pro-circs most of the time (thankfully).

Jessica

[pdx.mothernurture]

jessjghl, feel free to tweak it and post it wherever you think would be fitting.

Jen

[pdx.mothernurture]

Some further resources on the FGM/RIC comparison:

BoysToo: “Comparing FGM & MGM: Mutilation for the Same Reasons”:

http://www.boystoo.com/fgm&mgm.htm

Circumstitions: “FGM vs. MGM”:

http://www.circumstitions.com/FGMvsMGM.html

Circumstitions: “AAP: FGM vs. MGM”:

http://www.circumstitions.com/AAP.html

“Similarities in Attitudes and Misconceptions toward Infant Male Circumcision in North America and Ritual Female Genital Mutilation in Africa”, by Hanny-Lightenfoot Klein:

http://www.fgmnetwork.org/intro/mgmfgm.html

International Coalition for Genital Integrity (ICGI):
“Human Genital Mutilation (HGM) Classifications”:
http://www.icgi.org/hgm_classification.htm

Compleat Mother: “Female circumcision. Male circumcision. Is there a difference?”,
by Karen Squires:
http://www.compleatmother.com/articl...umcision.shtml

Yuki’s Intactivism Resource: FGM vs. MGM: http://www.angelfire.com/ca5/intact/fgm.html

NOHARMM: “Common Denominators between Male and Female Circumcision”
www.noharmm.org/comparison.htm

“Genital Mutilation & The United Nations: Male and Female Circumcision, Human Rights, the Restoration of Spiritual Integrity & Freedom”, by Anastasios Zavales,
Presented at the Fourth International Symposium on Sexual Mutilations, Universiity of Lausanne, Lausanne, Switzerland, August 9-11, 1996:

http://www.nocirc.org/symposia/fourth/zavales4.html

“Erroneous Belief Systems Underlying Female Genital Mutilation in Sub-Saharan Africa and Male Neonatal Circumcision in the United States: a Brief Report Updated”,
by Hanny-Lightenfoot Klei

Presented at The Third International Symposium on Circumcision, University of Maryland, College Park, Maryland May 22-25, 1994.

http://www.nocirc.org/symposia/third/hanny3.html




ACTIVISM:

Ashley Montagu Resolution to End the Mutilation of Children Worldwide:

http://MontaguNOCIRCpetition.org/

US MGM Bill: A Bill to End Male Genital Mutilation in the U.S. :

http://www.mgmbill.org/usmgmbill.htm

[pdx.mothernurture]

UPDATE: I posted the OP on a general (parenting) debate board I frequent, and a handful of circumcising parents have responded, however, they haven't come remotely close to addressing the argument/question. Instead, all I'm getting is whining about the circ topic being brought up again and vague defensive comments about having circumcised their son(s) and that the'd do it again. *Sigh*

Jen

[PuppyFluffer]

Please remember this portion of the User Agreement

Do not post to invite MDC members to other boards for adversarial purposes or post inflammatory information about MDC discussions at other boards, or about communities and discussions elsewhere, regardless of whether or not you link to that discussion or community. This is to maintain and respect the integrity of our own and other communities.

It is fine to discuss means of approaching this topic elsewhere, let's just not state where "elsewhere" is. We have this rule not because we wish to control where our members go but because we do now wish to have an invasion of pro circ parents here.

So, let's not discuss other discussions at other boards specifically in any sort of manner that could make them identifiable.

[pdx.mothernurture]

Thanks for the reminder Karen.

Jen

[trmpetplaya]

Routine male circumcision also removes the frenulum which is the equivalent of the clitoris so technically male circumcision is worse than the most common female version. You may want to add the bit about the frenulum in future postings or responses

love and peace.

[Treece]

I posted it on my blog. Just now, so it may be a minute before anyone responds. But i'm intactivist and not ashamed.

[Treece]

BTW:

A, I choose A. Why would there even be a B? B/C some believe that.