What if there were no formula?

[dentente]

What would happen? If breastfeeding is so very difficult (my milk dried up, my breasts are all wrong, it's not "convenient", I am too embarrassed, etc) then what would happen to these moms and babies? What would change about society if breastfeeding suddenly became a life or death issue? How would attitudes towards nursing mothers change? And more importantly what exactly happened to us as mammals (by definition a warm-blooded lactating animal) that made it so this key step in our growth and development became optional. A choice.

If the world suddenly succumbed to a massive plague and world-wide shipping and distribution of formula stopped I am curious about how the mothers and babies of the world would cope. An LC might be worth her weight in gold all of a sudden. Not that they aren't already

Just finding myself very curious about how we as humans are evolving. Boobs and all.

Denny

[Elphaba]

people would give their babies cow's milk, goat's milk, etc. maybe with some corn syrup mixed in.

or they would have to pay a nursing mother to nurse their baby, too.

people have always refused to nurse for social reasons. like mozart -- he wouldn't allow his wife to nurse their babies, and she had like 20 of them, and most of them if not all died. rich people used to hire poor women to nurse their babies for them, and then the child would return to them weaned at 1-2 years old.

[Greaseball]

I would like to see wet-nursing come back. Not so rich people don't have to take care of their babies, but so people can see that formula is never necessary. If for some reason a mother is truly unable to nurse, a friend could do it for her or she could join a baby-sitting co-op where all the moms nursed all the babies. (The moms could even get an HIV test on a regular basis to show to the other moms if one were worried about that.) I think it is pointless to pump milk and then leave dd with a nursing mom, but I don't feel comfortable asking for that favor.

But I think you're right about if there were no formula, people would feed babies other stuff that might be even worse. Dh was fed condensed milk with corn syrup in it since birth. In colonial times babies were strapped to the bellies of nursing goats, pigs and other animals to free up the mothers for work in the fields. In poor countries where formula is distributed and parents can't read, they just mix the (contaminated) water with anything white - flour, starch, and even non-food substances - when they run out of formula.

Even formula-feeders now switch to cows milk early so they don't have to keep buying formula. But it could be that if all formula disappeared, there would be government grants for WIC to pay for milk from a milk bank.

[DaryLLL]

s on this:

Milk, Money and Madness

The Politics of Breastfeeding

[Viola]

One thing I took away from Milk, Money and Madness is that even if not breastfeeding means death, there are those who still won't breastfeed. Maybe I wasn't supposed to get that message, but I did. I think the problem with wet nursing as it used to be done is that women had to have had a baby in order to become a wet nurse, and often their own babies were "farmed out" or otherwise abandoned, and were not breastfed. I suppose with modern wet nursing, a wet nurse would be allowed to keep her own child.

[Greaseball]

I think the problem with wet nursing as it used to be done is that women had to have had a baby in order to become a wet nurse, and often their own babies were "farmed out" or otherwise abandoned, and were not breastfed.

That may have been true in some cases, but the book also says that many wet nurses, even those who had been nursing other children for 10+ years, had never been pregnant themselves.

Just like how adoptive mothers today can breastfeed, although so few seem to know this. Or maybe they just don't want to try.

[kingzjewel]

a lot of babies would die...

at least that is how i feel with the way others are about bfg

[~Megan~]

Perhaps we would use milk nurses like we have in the past. Or people would start using homemade formula again, I for one would rather keep the mass produced formula than have babies eating condensed milk and honey.
Some moms no matter what the circumstances wouldn't breastfeed so it would be better to get the second best substance than straight other mammal milk or homemade varieties.

[Lilg127]

Okay my baby isn't born yet but if for some odd reason I couldn't breastfeed (and if it happened I'd be one of the less than 1% who couldn't produce milk because I'm determined not to fail) I wouldn't be comfortable using a wet nurse. I guess I'd do it if there were no formula or other healthy options but I simply don't trust other people to take as good care of themselves as I do of myself. If I couldn't be with the woman 24/7 I'd be nervous about her feeding my baby.

My baby will be watched by one of my best friend during the day since I have to go back to work and she's in the process of TTC so will hopefully have her own baby shortly after she starts watching him and she plans to bf as well. So I very well may be leaving him with a nursing mom but I'd still rather pump because I can't be around her all the time. I have no way of knowing how much alcohol she drank, how much caffeine she had ect... Another thing is that I think the nursing relationship forms a special bond between mom and baby and maybe its selfish of me but I want that bond to be exclusive between me and the baby.

[mum2sarah]

Lilg127, I do see your point, but if it were between another woman's breastmilk and formula, I would certainly opt for her milk, even if she did have a drink occassionally or didn't eat exactly the most healthy foods. Even "tainted" breastmilk is by far much better than formula (except maybe in the case of a total alcoholic), because it still offers immunological properties that formula cannot replicate. It is still the most nourishing and easily digested, too. One book that discusses this issue is a book by Jack Newman, and I can't remember the exact title, "The Ultimate Breastfeeding Answer Book," perhaps?

Anyhow, I am with Greaseball. I think wet nursing could do a lot of good. I have an overabundant supply and I would gladly nurse someone else's baby if she couldn't. It would be good to know that I was helping the short-term and long-term health of another human being. I know we can always donate breastmilk, but as another thread pointed out, it is only accepted in the US when your baby is very young, and the cost could be prohibitive for those interested in using donated milk. Wet nursing would be way more efficient. I remember babysitting my best friend's five month old son a few weeks back, and I thought it was such a shame that I had to prepare him a bottle and feed him formula since he had recently weaned from his mother's milk. As a lactating mother, I could easily have nursed him, but such things are not accepted in our society.

Well, I guess all I've said thus far has been completely off-topic, but just my 2 cents...

[sleepies]

deleted by author

decided not to post reply

[LunaMom]

I think many more women would breastfeed, sure, but there would be a lot of malnourished babies due to homemade formulas.

[Little Bear's Mama]

If all formula was pulled from the shelves tommorrow,people would find a way to use it anyway. There would be lots of homeade formula and perhaps even people selling contraband formula in the alleys.
The only thing that will cause a change in the use of formula vs breastmilk is a change in attitude and culture. Breastfeeding will need to once again become mainstream THEN we'll see the change.
I agree that "Milk,Money,and Madness" is a GREAT book. Read it if you get the chance. It will change your whole veiw on the situation.
On another note,formula does have it's place. Many babies might die without it.

[TigerTail]

prescription only, imho. it's a good product if you don't have access to a wet nurse or milk bank (and certainly there should be more of these), but make it cost (like circ'ing has, in some states) & let's see that rate of successful nursing shoot right up!

suse

[AmyG]

I think that a combination of wet nurses and more milk banks would work. I can totally understand someone not wanting another woman to nurse her baby. While I'm personally comfortable with it if it's just a feeding session or two, I'm not sure how I'd like it if I could never feed my baby. And the logistics of having a wet nurse would be really hard to arrange. You'd either need to pay a woman to live with you, in which case there would be women who were career wet nurses, and there'd be lots of opportunities for inappropriate motives, or you'd have to give your baby to another woman, which obviously isn't a good solution.

If there were more milk banks, it wouldn't be as hard to get donated milk. It would be nice if you could donate milk at each of the many blood donation locations around the country. If every nursing mom spent about 45 minutes being screened and then pumping a few ounces once a month or so, there would be a much greater supply of milk.

I don't think that prescription only would work. Doctors are always writing prescriptions at the request of their patients, and too many doctors believe that many women can't breastfeed. Plus, it would be available on the black market, so people would get it no matter what.

In all honesty, I don't think that formula, in and of itself, is evil. There are problems with the way it's marketed, and there are problems with the way society sees it as the norm. But there are actually a very, very tiny number of babies who have to have formula rather than human milk, so it needs to exist. And it is a good option for moms who really can't breastfeed, especially since it is hard to get another woman's milk in our society. I think that formula could exist in a culture that was much more supportive of breastfeeding, but it would take a lot of changes.

[Lilg127]

I agree about society's attitudes needing to change. I think thats the first step. I mean the fact that I've had people litterally cringe if I mention breastfeeding or been told that NIP is gross and makes people uncomfortable (Comming from the same people that have no problem gawking at a woman's breast if she's wearing a low cut dress : ) Really shows how far we need tto go.

I do agree there should be more milk banks. I'd be more comfortable with that than with a wet nurse because I believe they could screen and test people better. But also preemies need breastmilk and if for whatever reason a mom can not pump her own milk I hate the idea of milk not being available for one of these preemies... I guess this is my big issue because when I was born I was very premature and was lucky my mom could extract milk to feed me. If it weren't from the antibodies in her milk my immune system wouldn't have developed enough for me to survive. But if she was one of the less than 1% of women who litterally can not produce any milk well I'd probobally not be here now (I was born at 27 weeks)

In the end though I still think its better to have formula exists. Its by far not as good a food as breastmilk. Not even the formula companies try to dispute that but if someone can not breastfeed I think they should have all the options available to them. Prescription would be a good way of doing it.

The other thing is people keep mentioning money. Isn't formula already expensive? I know when we found out I was pregnant DH was laid off and we were scared about getting by. At the first OB appt we had they sent she asked if we plan to breastfeed. I automatically responded yes even though we hadn't talked about it. The nurse there gave us a fact sheet and DH noticed right away it would save us like 1800 per year and thats the cheap stuff. So I don't think price is to much of deterent. (Either that or really poor because that seemed like a lot of money!)

[Greaseball]

Don't milk banks pasteurize the milk, destroying the antibodies?

If there were no formula and people just let their babies starve or they died because they were fed kool-aid or whatever (and I have seen newborn babies drink that stuff!) perhaps people would be held more accountable for babies' deaths? Now, a baby can be fed formula and die because its immune system did not get what it needed and no one is blamed. (Yes, I know that "many babies are fed formula and grow up to be just fine" but many babies do not grow up fine, or even grow up at all.) If formula did not exist and a mother had perfectly good breasts which she CHOSE not to use, there would be no excuse for the baby becoming seriously ill.

Is formula really better than just plain cows milk? Isn't cows milk the main ingredient in formula, before all the hydrogenated fats and sweeteners and non-food substances?

My dh, who was fed condensed milk with karo, nearly died of meningitis when he was 9 mos. Obviously his immune system needed something else. He had a fever of 110 degrees and the soft spot on his head was bulging. The ER staff said he would not make it through the night, but he did, and did not even suffer brain damage.

[mom2tig99Nroo03]

Originally posted by Greaseball
there would be government grants for WIC to pay for milk from a milk bank.

as someone who worked as a bf counselor for the health dept. i would LOVE to see this happen....

[LunaMom]

Greaseball, I've read that the milk in milk banks has been pasteurized, too, and it does kill a lot of the living cells that make breastmilk so beneficial. Still, I'd prefer pasteurized breastmilk over formula. Is it true that donated milk is wickedly expensive? Does anyone know how much, just out of curiosity?

[Greaseball]

Yes, I would prefer pasteurized human milk to formula. Formula contains known contaminants. I hear donated milk costs anywhere from $2.50 to $10 an ounce.