What if there were no formula? - Page 3

[shelbean91]

I think other mammals are more developed when they're born than human babies. Horses and cows can walk right away, dogs and cats can walk within weeks. Humans have the longest 'baby' time, of about 18 years. Most other mammals are adults within 5 years or so. I think that would also lead to less nursing problems.

[Quirky]

There are definitely animals that have problems breastfeeding, which is why you see puppy and kitty formula at the petstore. It's also why cows get fed so many danged antibiotics; they get mastitis all the time (although who wouldn't, hooked up to a breastpump all day : )

I asked my LC the same question, when we were having our boatloads of difficulties starting out, about what I would have done before LCs and breastpumps. She pointed out that not only would I have had female relatives to show me how to nurse, I would have had lactating female relatives to nurse my baby for me until we got it figured out! Or a wetnurse, or someone.

[DaryLLL]

Many mothers breastfeed with no problems starting out. I have a friend down the street whose triplets all latched on, at only 35 weeks, and did great! (She did need losts of help with meals and housework of course. She needed moral support. She nursed them for over a year!)

I am amazed when I hear from moms who nursed several babies without LLL or an LC support. But they just didn't need help!

I had sore nipples with each of my 3 kids for 10 days, but that was because they were all tongue-tied. The problem resolved itself.

Yes, other mammals can have bfing problems. I heard a story in a Medela newletter yrs ago, how a Medela rep was called to the zoo, to pump the breasts of a new inexperienced mother elephant. She wasn't nursing the baby often enough and got plugged up.

I heard another story of a new mother gorilla, raised in captivity with no other females. She gave birth, and without having seen anyone nurse before, did not know what to do. A nursing human mother was brought in to nurse her baby in front of the poor gorilla's cage every day for a couple hours. The mother gorilla observed her and started nursing her baby successfully.

Higher order primates need more social support. But we humans need the most, as our babies are all born "prematurely," as our brains have gotten too big to fit thru the birth canal when the baby is more mature. Even gorillas and chimps, etc have babies who can cling tightly on as the mom swings thru the trees. Obviously, they would be more vigorous about latching on to a breast!

In our case, it takes a village to nurse a child. Don't do it alone. Call LLL!

[dentente]

What an excellent post. Thank you Daryl!

Denny

[bananasmom]

She pointed out that not only would I have had female relatives to show me how to nurse, I would have had lactating female relatives to nurse my baby for me until we got it figured out! Or a wetnurse, or someone.

I can only imagine how much more comfortable I would (and I'm sure I'm not alone in this) in seeking out the help of relatives, rather than strangers, upon the birth of a first child.

[Greaseball]

I think people buy puppy formula because the mom dies or has abandoned the puppies, or because they want to adopt really, really young puppies.

I think the more restrictions a woman has on bfing, the more problems she will develop. If she decides to bottle feed in public and nurse at home only, she will (most likely) have problems.

Also, there was an editorial in Mothering that said the "how-to" bf books were doing more harm than good. She said they diagrammed positions that were uncomfortable, and then she realized that she knew all along how to do it. The book did not have pics of a mom reclining in a chair with the baby latched on; instead it showed a baby straddling a mom's leg and holding the breast as if it were a bottle.

Remember some how to books are written by formula companies and they will tell you things like you have to wash your nipples before and after each feeding.

[EFmom]

If there were no formula my two beautiful daughters, my God daughter and countless other wonderful children that I know would be dead.

They spent their first year or so in orphanages in very poor countries. While it is nice to think that all these wet nurses would magically appear willing to nurse endless numbers of abandoned infants, it wouldn't happen. The kids would die.

[Greaseball]

My dh was not fed formula (not as we know it today, anyway) or breast milk and he did not die, although he nearly did. He got meningitis when he was a baby and was not expected to live more than a few hours. He was fed condensed milk from birth and then started solids when he was a month old.

I think people would just start solids early, or things such as cows milk. Remember Nestle...a million babies dead because of formula, not lack of formula!

(Of course, this was mainly due to no clean water and illiterate parents who could not read the direction on the can.)

[EFmom]

I was fed cow's milk from day one and wasn't sick as a baby, on the advice of the pediatrician. He even told my mother not to bother to warm it up unless she really felt like it.

However, in the places I am talking about, dairy animals are not available, and in some places refrigeration is lacking as well. My children would have died without powdered formula.

[USAmma]

Those are all excellent points. Thanks!


T
We live by a dairy farm and it's really sad. Those poor cows produce waaay more milk than they need for a calf, they are engorged so much their udders drag the ground. No wonder they get mastitis all the time. We went on a tour (they have them for kids) and when they told me that I felt awful about being there. And even more so when I asked where the calves were, since there was a pen of recent new mommy cows there. They remove them shortly after birth and make them into veal. Even the organic farms do this. Yuck. So I'm debating on whether or not to give up dairy but it's hard. I'm veg and that's one of my main sources of protein. Maybe after I have the baby I'll think about it more. In the meantime I'm not feeling real good about drinking milk meant for a baby stolen away from its mom. (And when they start producing less milk as they get older, they are made into hamburgers).

Darshani

[Quirky]

Also T Darshani, I feel your pain: I'm a vegetarian but not a vegan and have the same internal struggles about the cruelty of the dairy industry. FWIW, though, I'm not that worried about the protein issue, as you can get plenty of protein from a plant-based diet without trying too hard. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak when it comes to cheese, milk in my tea, yogurt, and ice cream....

[dentente]

Originally posted by EFmom
If there were no formula my two beautiful daughters, my God daughter and countless other wonderful children that I know would be dead.

Yes. It is likely they would be dead. Sadly. It is a good thing formula does exist but who would have thought, back when it was invented, that it would forever alter the way the vast majority of wealthy countries feed their babies. Formula truly was a civilization changing invention. I compare it to television. It has made some things better and some things worse.

Denny

[mommy2andrew]

just want to apologize for my thread on what if there were no breastfeeding.

Originally posted by dentente
Yes. It is likely they would be dead. Sadly. It is a good thing formula does exist but who would have thought, back when it was invented, that it would forever alter the way the vast majority of wealthy countries feed their babies. Formula truly was a civilization changing invention. I compare it to television. It has made some things better and some things worse.

Denny

I know I was a I didnt mean to insult u or judge for breastfeeding I just hope u can forgive me. That thread was so stupid and immature of me for writing it. Please for give me..

[EFmom]

Denny, thank you for the acknowledgment.

I'm not a big fan of formula companies. I fully understand their rotten marketing practices and the history of what they have done. I'm pro-breastfeeding. If I'd had bio kids, I would have breastfed.

But for those of us whose kids really need it, it is literally a life-saver. It does get a tad tiresome sometimes reading endlessly the "formula=poison" stuff. It comes across as our kids would be expendable for the greater good of banning formula.

[USAmma]

I'm not a big fan of formula companies. I fully understand their rotten marketing practices and the history of what they have done

I know, I know. I do believe formula can be a blessing for those who need it, but it also makes it too easy not to at least try bfing for some moms.

You'd be happy to know, after all the bad press about Nestle, that they seem to have changed their ways at least in India. We took dd there at 12 mos. old and by that point I had stopped pumping and she was on cows milk. For some reason she could not tolerate Indian cows milk at all and got the runs, so I was left in the awkward position of trying to drive around the city looking for formula. I found and bought out one store's supply of Similac (which had been made in Italy and imported). They had only 4 cans and they were only around $5 each which was way cheaper than in the US.

So after we ran out of the Similac I drove around again and found an import store with 2 cans of Enfamil but they were soooo expensive, I mean outrageously so. Obviously meant for foreigners to buy. I went to a pharamacy and they had some Nestle formula called Lactogen. It had so many labels in different languages that you could hardly see the logo. The top had a big sticker in 2 languages that said to only use it with a prescription (they don't really require one there if you have enough bribe $$ you can buy whatever you want at the pharmacy but that's another story.) It also said breastmilk was healthier for the baby than formula. On the can it had the same message in big bold red letters and under that the mixing instructions including some very detailed pictures for those who can't read, including a photo of boiling water, and how many scoops to add to a cup.
Also said to make sure to sterilize the bottles. Under that it said to always hold the baby while feeding it to prevent choking and never to let the baby drink a bottle if it was not attended. I bought out that supply of formula pretty quickly and had to hop around to find more.

The entire time I was in India I never once saw any baby drinking formula out of a bottle, and I was there for 2.5 mos. (I did notice some sposie babies in the upper class families though. Ugh!) The only baby bottles I saw were some street kids drinking water out of them and they were like 2-3 years old. MIL is still under the the impression, as were most other moms I met there, that babies only need to nurse for 9 mos. and after that it's just not right, but by then they were starting solids. (I think that's western influence- probably different in the villages.) I did meet one extended breastfeeder, interestingly enough an American woman who was married to an Indian and living next door. She had a 2 year old.

Anyway this is getting way off topic but wanted to share.

Darshani