Sleepovers - ackk!

[Suzukimom]

My dd was homeschooled for the last three years and is now in 8th grade in public school. Apparently, the sleepover is the happening social scene.

My dd and I are at odds about sleepovers. Last month she was excluded from her neighbor and lifetime friend's sleepover. Well, last night, when dd called her friend to tell her she didn't need a ride to school, the friend told her she was having a sleepover Friday night - today.

Dd really wants to go but I hesitated and said I'll think it over. She didn't want me to discuss it with dh but I did anyway. She thinks dh is more lenient. We're united though and discuss these issues together.

On principle, I don't like sleepovers for the following reasons:
1) group of loosely supervised girls who I don't know well - except for the neighbor who has caused my dd much grief this year.
2) there is no sleep - sleepover is a oxymoron and you get a tired, crabby child for the rest of the weekend.
3) groups of girls have behaviors which are not necessarily nice. We're talking about 9-10 girls.

For this specific sleepover my reasons for saying no are:
1) this friend has not been a good friend in recent months. This friend invited her only when my dd called.
2) dd is recovering from a stomach virus and is just now feeling well. I'd like to regain her strength.
3) She's been invited (with an invitation a couple weeks ago) to a birthday party on Saturday by a different group of girls who dd says are nicer to her.
4) She has an appointment at 9:30 Saturday morning.

Of course I'm mean and I don't understand what it's like to be a girl today. It's different from when I was a kid. I shouldn't read parenting books (just finished Reviving Ophelia) because they are old fashioned.

Thanks for listening.
__________________
Carol

[lorijds]

My 6th grader loves sleep overs, and we love to have them. We are pretty comfortable with this group of friends, though.

I always liked sleep overs when I was a kid. That middle of the night, sleep deprived bonding thing if fun; so are movie marthons, soda at 3am, board games, video games, etc.

Why does she want to go? Maybe these are nice girls (your experience with them sounds limited, maybe they arne't all that bad); maybe your daughter hasn't gotten to know people to well at school yet and is excited for the opportunity to be included in a sleep over. Maybe the invitation was last minute because someone cancelled and so the other girl was able to invite someone else (I usually put a limit on the number of girls, and if someone cancels, we invite someone else).

I think you are definately viewing this from the negative--here are all the problems with sleep overs in general, and this sleep over in particular. And they are probably all valid and true--but what about the positives? Maybe you can ask your daughter to make a list of why she wants to go and why you should let her go.

An alternative woudl be for your daughter to have a sleep over next weekend, and invite the kids. Then you could get to know them.

You are the parent, you get to decide. It's hard to give you any advice, I'm not in your shoes. I know all the kids at my daughter's school, so I would let her go. Early morning appointments wouldn't deter me; I'd just tell her that if she screws it up by being surly or unable to handle the appointment and the Saturday party after the sleep over, then the next couple of times she gets invited to a sleep over, she wouldn't ge allowed to go on the basis that she is unable to function appropriately after them. I find that my daughter is able to function just fine afterwards.

[smillerhouse]

My daughter is going to a sleepover tomorrow night. She is nearly 14. It is for the birthday of a girl on her volleyball team. I have not been the big of fan of them for many of the reasons you have said. I have said no many times. I have had one girl (at a time)over here probably ten times in the past four years. I prefer active type stuff during the day and her sleeping at home. My daughter is homeschooled . The mean gilr stuff, the focus on commercialism ,the conforminty, and the obsession with boys and sex and appearance are things that I like to temper with my adult perspective. I have to let go of expectations and accept it.By this I mean the invite said they might swim or play vollyball and have a bonfire and cook s'mores. That sounds great but if it doesn't happen, I am OK with that,too. My daughter is very active and an introvert. She actually prefers being active and then one girl vs. a big group. It is a balance. She wants to go over to another girls house (who is a bully type) before this and I won't let her.I will let her go for a few hours next weekend. For me, it is about limits and boundries and I have found that my views, limits an dboundaries ARE a lot different than many,but that it is important that I go with them. By following inclusivity and openness , she has has so many experinces outside narrow cliche that many girls seem to be limited to. Sallie

[greenhaven]

I am completely sympathetic, suzukimom! When my boys FIRST started doing sleepovers, moms were good enough to get everyone sleeping by a decent hour. Then there was the "they are old enough to deal with it" phase where they would be up virtually ALL night, usually playing video games the whole time! Grr!

Now they are old enough to understand the long-lasting impact of being up all night, and have actually stated self-moderating a bit. Of course it does help that now that we have moved, they tend to come HERE rather than somewhere else, anymore!

I feel like you have more than enough reasons to keep her home if you desire. She will be upset, but maybe you can temper your words with an offer to have the girls to YOUR place some weekend soon.

[Susana]

I've been in your shoes before. I know how you're feeling. My dd is 13 and homeschooled and one thing I have definitely figured out is I have to let her make some of the decisions regarding her social calendar, even tho I might not like it, otherwise all hell can break loose.
dd has a life long"friend" who recently started treating dd rather badly too...my dh and I can't stand this girl anymore (it is a shame) and remind dd of why we don't like her. One big reason- whenever this girl has no one else to hang with she calls my dd as a consolation. Usually this girl will do things with everyone else and rub it in my daughter's face....I HATE it! Anyway, dd is FINALLY starting to see what we see..now, it took a while, but she knows what this *friend* does and is finally turning her down for invitations when they comeup. This weekend, as a matter of fact, the kid invited herself to our house for a sleepover. DH and I were like, hell no, but let dd decide about it. She decided to pass and join me and dh and ds for dinner out Ahhh. and we didn't have to fight about it becuase it was HER decision!

now...all that said...

since your dd is just getting over stomach flu I would just say flat out no becuase of the regaining strength thing and exposing others..I know it's not likely, but I like to avoid that illness at all costs.

[lorijds]

Wow, I'm surprised at how many moms view sleep overs in such a negative light.

Do you have sleep overs at your house?

We have sleep overs almost every weekend. Sometimes they are just one kid--sometimes they are 2-3 (that's our limit except for birthday parties, since we are four people in a 850 sq ft house--there just isn't room!). One thing is that we really value family time, and for us, a lot of our family time is week day afternoons and evenings. So we usually dont' allow playdates/hanging out with friends after school. Instead we invite them over on the weekend. Another reason is that my dds have many friends who do not attend school with them; so they have them over on the weekends, to maintain those friendships until summer, when we can hang out all the time then.

A typical sleep over for my 6th grader is taking the girls to get a movie, let them hang out in a coffee shop downtown for a while; go home, let them fix supper and eat in their room. If the weather is nice, they'll all go for a bike ride, a walk in the neighborhood, or play outside in our yard or the nearby park. They'll probably go two houses down to annoy/flirt with two boys in their class (very sweet boys who play over here sometimes) and end up drawn into a pick up game of basketball. The last time the boys came over here, and we organized a killer bocce ball tourney, which my youngest dd and her cousin (who was sleeping over, too) won, much to the chagrin of the older set. Then we built a bon fire and burned all the garden trash. Then I set up the computer in my oldest dd's room and they watched the movie. I have no idea when they went to sleep. They were all up at 7 when my husband got up to fix breakfast. One of them has to leave at 8, she has ballet every saturday. It's never been a problem to have her on her bike with ballet clothes in her backpack by 7:45.

Yeah, the older girls tend to stay up until 3 or 4. At 11 or midnight I usually tell them I don't want to hear them any more, but I don't care how long they stay up. If they disturb us or the little sister, then the lights have to go out and they have to be quiet. It has never been a problem. For the little kids (my 3rd grader and her sleep overs) we have a general lights out, in bed a 11 or so type of rule (maybe closer to midnight in the summer); they can stay up and talk all they want, but they have to be in bed with the lights out. They are acutally usually asleep before 10:30.

Maybe things will change in the next couple of years. I guess the sleep overs have been such a fun, positive experience. In some of the recent sleep overs, the girls and my dh worked on our she/playhouse--they painted and sewed curtains out of my fabric scraps. They do a lot of crafts--they are all into knitting, so they bring their sticks and yarn. Once they made "ugly dolls" (the funky, alien looking stuffed animals type things, my youngest collects them) and then gave them to the little kids down the street. Some of them aren't too good on their bike handling skills yet, but if it's a group of girls that are, we take them down to the levy to ride the trails. I haven't seen the behavior you-all describe; it may come, especially once they hit junior high. So far they've been fun. I like having the sleep overs, if nothing else, it keeps me involved and aware of their friendships. They seem to want our involvment right now--if they are playing a board game or doing a craft, they often ask us to participate. We do try to keep a good mix--there are a couple of girls who seem to butt heads, so we don't invite them together typically.

Am I the only one on here who thinks sleepovers are fun? That's too bad. I wouldn't want to have them or let my kids go, either, if they weren't fun.

[love2all]

No I love sleepovers too!!!!
I really enjoy getting to know my kids friends and having them over for a sleepover is a great way to really get a clue on someones attitude/behavior!!!!

I also agree that my kids come home cranky a lot of times but we just go to bed real early the next day.

[Dar]

My daughter is the same age as the OP's... A lot of sleepovers here are sort of unplanned... kids get together, bounce around town a bit, and eventually decide to sleep somewhere. Sometimes the kids are homeschooled and sometimes they're schooled - it generally works the same way.

That said, it sounds like your daughter has a busy Saturday planned, and an early one, too. Could you change her appointment to another day? Also, does she know she can always call you if she gets uncomfortable or feels ill and wants to go home? I've always made this clear...

dar

[Suzukimom]

Originally Posted by lorijds

My 6th grader loves sleep overs, and we love to have them. We are pretty comfortable with this group of friends, though.

I always liked sleep overs when I was a kid. That middle of the night, sleep deprived bonding thing if fun; so are movie marthons, soda at 3am, board games, video games, etc.

Why does she want to go? Maybe these are nice girls (your experience with them sounds limited, maybe they arne't all that bad); maybe your daughter hasn't gotten to know people to well at school yet and is excited for the opportunity to be included in a sleep over. Maybe the invitation was last minute because someone cancelled and so the other girl was able to invite someone else (I usually put a limit on the number of girls, and if someone cancels, we invite someone else).

I think you are definately viewing this from the negative--here are all the problems with sleep overs in general, and this sleep over in particular. And they are probably all valid and true--but what about the positives? Maybe you can ask your daughter to make a list of why she wants to go and why you should let her go.

An alternative woudl be for your daughter to have a sleep over next weekend, and invite the kids. Then you could get to know them.

You are the parent, you get to decide. It's hard to give you any advice, I'm not in your shoes. I know all the kids at my daughter's school, so I would let her go. Early morning appointments wouldn't deter me; I'd just tell her that if she screws it up by being surly or unable to handle the appointment and the Saturday party after the sleep over, then the next couple of times she gets invited to a sleep over, she wouldn't ge allowed to go on the basis that she is unable to function appropriately after them. I find that my daughter is able to function just fine afterwards.

It's true, I don't know this group of friends very well. From what my dd has told me they are generally and okay group but I don't like the mean girl behavior she's told me about.

For the last sleepover at the neighbor's house about a month ago, certain girls in the group had a ballot to determine who could come from the group of girls. The next week, two of the girls approached my dd and told her (demanded) that she be mean to another girl in the group. She was not to talk to the girl, give her dirty looks, and call her names. Fortunately my dd was strong and said she wasn't going to do that.
I have concerns - especially since I do know the neighbor well and she has always been able to charm and manipulate her parents through deceit and lies. We've caught her in several.

They have 5 (yes 5!) computers in their familiy room for each member of the family. With that much internet availability, I'm concerned about what they may stumble upon online. When my ds was 13, a p*rn website was being passed around through his class at a Christian school. The family is also much more liberal on the movies they watch and would likely turn a blind eye to an R rated movie being shown.

My dd sees the postive in attending. It will be fun. You want me to have friends don't you? My answer - yes but the right kind of friends and this other group which seem to be nicer, more academically minded girls have included her by inviting her to a party the next day. Invest in friendships that are benefical to you.

BTW, she went to a sleepover last week and two days later came down with the stomach bug. Could be a coincidence?

Thanks for helping me to look at the postive.

[Suzukimom]

Originally Posted by greenhaven

I am completely sympathetic, suzukimom! When my boys FIRST started doing sleepovers, moms were good enough to get everyone sleeping by a decent hour. Then there was the "they are old enough to deal with it" phase where they would be up virtually ALL night, usually playing video games the whole time! Grr!

Now they are old enough to understand the long-lasting impact of being up all night, and have actually stated self-moderating a bit. Of course it does help that now that we have moved, they tend to come HERE rather than somewhere else, anymore!

I feel like you have more than enough reasons to keep her home if you desire. She will be upset, but maybe you can temper your words with an offer to have the girls to YOUR place some weekend soon.

I'm thinking of compromising and letting her go until 11:30 or so. At least she'll get a decent night's sleep.

I've offered to have parties here but she doesn't want to. I embarass her.
I don't take it personally.

[Suzukimom]

Originally Posted by lorijds

Wow, I'm surprised at how many moms view sleep overs in such a negative light.

Do you have sleep overs at your house?

We have sleep overs almost every weekend. Sometimes they are just one kid--sometimes they are 2-3 (that's our limit except for birthday parties, since we are four people in a 850 sq ft house--there just isn't room!).

In some of the recent sleep overs, the girls and my dh worked on our she/playhouse--they painted and sewed curtains out of my fabric scraps. They do a lot of crafts--they are all into knitting, so they bring their sticks and yarn. Once they made "ugly dolls" (the funky, alien looking stuffed animals type things, my youngest collects them) and then gave them to the little kids down the street. Some of them aren't too good on their bike handling skills yet, but if it's a group of girls that are, we take them down to the levy to ride the trails. I haven't seen the behavior you-all describe; it may come, especially once they hit junior high. So far they've been fun. I like having the sleep overs, if nothing else, it keeps me involved and aware of their friendships. They seem to want our involvment right now--if they are playing a board game or doing a craft, they often ask us to participate. We do try to keep a good mix--there are a couple of girls who seem to butt heads, so we don't invite them together typically.

Am I the only one on here who thinks sleepovers are fun? That's too bad. I wouldn't want to have them or let my kids go, either, if they weren't fun.

I think the difference here is the number of girls. 2-3 is much different than a gang of 9-10. I'm told by dd you have to have a group over to have a sleep over.

Also in the sleepovers I've observed, there are no planned activities. Doing a sleepover for a 11 year old is different than for a 13 year old. At least I've only heard of watching movies. No planned activities.

I would love to do a game night but it's probably way too outside the norm of acceptable for my dd.

[RBinTEX]

We love sleepovers here. Every weekend, a group desends on my gameroom, stays up half the night, and eats everything in my kitchen. I'm lucky in that my kids have hooked up with some pretty good kids as friends, and having them here all the time has given me a chance to get to know them. I get to know their parents, too. I know which ones I feel comfortable about allowing my kids to go to their houses, and which ones I don't. And even with the lack of sleep, my kids are expected to vacuum and mop and clean up the popcorn and soda cans. That's part of the deal!

One of my rules is no computer when guests are over. Poker is OK, as long as it comes out of your allowance!

[Jenny_Jane]

I actully like when my girls (13yo) have sleepovers it gives me some personal time. Yes their cranky but after a couple monthes the girls relized how cranky they were and actully went to sleep at a desent time on their own.Both my dds love love love sleepovers and when I say love I mean about every other weekend! The other moms and I actully have a "sleepover schedual" it works out realy nice (there are about 9 moms in this so we have a sleepover at our house every other month) and even when I say no they understand because there are usually sleepovers every weekend so they know they can ask again next weekend all the girls in the class are good friends exept for a couple bad apples who only invite their closest 2 friends and gossip all night so I'm happy they dont invite my dds! I do feel for you some time girls dont get who real frends are.... what i'm saying is their friends but the trust bond isn't that close you know?!?

[lanamommyphd07]

a standing rule in our house when there was a teen living there was that there were no last minute plans made--so the after-school request on a Friday to do something friday night would have earned dd a dirty look of astonishment for even asking. (I used this every time there was a "hinky" situation that didn't feel right to me). Once she was invited (at about 17) to a sleepover to some folks I didn't know, but whose daughter was a bit on the skanky side of things. I let her make her own decision, but when I got the call at 11 to come and get her, I was there in 5 minutes. It turned out that the father of the family was a drunk and there was a lot of screaming in the home. After that we agreed that I would be able to at least talk with the parents to get a feel, but I was very impressed with her ability to judge for herself the situation she was in, and let her know this. While the whole scenario was one that had originally been against my gut feeling, it turned out to be a very worthwhile experience of learning for her. She was also once invited to a sleepover with the "popular" girls, and was very excited (was about 13 then) and ended up being the "target", got water dumped on her in her sleep, mocked, etc. When I picked her up the next day, I knew something was wrong, but the parents were so friendly and the kids so friendly I honestly wondered about dd's behavior!! It took two days and she finally admitted how she had been wronged, but then we got to talk about what makes a friend, and what popular means, etc. I guess my point is, while most sleepovers will be grand, hedonistic, candy-ridden affairs and totally fun for them, there may be some times that some true learning gets done. I found that I always felt more at ease having all the giggly creatures in my home where I could monitor things, and she eventually was pretty cool about that too, once I introduced her to some movies that were PG and lower that were "cool".

[shanagirl]

If you are homeschooling, I would guess your dd is very attuned to making decisions that feel right to her and is not overly susceptible to conforming. I would go with her instincts and let her decide. It's a neighbor, so she can always call you if she doesn't want to stay. Sometimes your children need to deal with social issues on their own. She needs to decide for herself how she feels about what the neighbor is doing and sometimes I think this generation of children has parents who are too interested in these subtle dynamics because the parent is not only judging what other children are doing to their child, but they are judging how their child responds. It sounds like you want her to snub the neighbor girl, and I totally understand the feeling, but it is your daughter's relationship and she has to make the decision, and it's even ok if she makes one she regrets later. It's not really about how you feel about the neighbor girl, it's about how your daughter feels about her.