I give up on other boards

[hunnybumm]

I am not going to be specific or talk about specifics from other boards, I just love it here and am just sick and tired of even trying at other places. Even boards that may seem pro-intact. It seems like even when we just give solid information, the pro-circ people take it as offensive and that we are attacking them as parents. I just want to inform people and give them information, I don't attack random strangers on message boards, I don't tell anyone they are a bad parent for circing their children.

Anyways, I prefer to stay in my little bubble here at MDC where I know I can say I FEEL circumcision is wrong, and not offend anyone. Ok, that's all!

[TigerTail]

I tried yesterday to check out a new place, & it felt like getting sucker-punched, even seeing soi-disant 'pro-intact' people trot out 'it's a personal choice', 'it's a tough decision', etc. No, it's not! It's not YOUR choice at all! The only decision is default!

I can do utterly free speech like newsgroups, I can do moderated but not allowing promotion, but anyplace that acknowledges it as a 'choice' but hosts hissy fits by people who won't read and can't think, but censors calling a spade a spade (like calling amputative surgery by name)... how do you guys do it?

[Mewsin]

When calling an intact penis and intact penis and it offends someone, 1. That's really sad and 2. It should wake that person up that maybe they did something they don't really approve of.

[jaxinsmom]

I hear you! Other more "mainstream" boards and the discusions that follow on circumcision is enough to leave me filling more than ill. When did it become more of a concern to offend an adults "senstative ears" than to protect a baby that cannot speak-up for himself??????

~Danielle (aka blissfullyhappy )

[trmpetplaya]

yeah... it's getting hard around here sometimes though... but at least the PTB don't allow pro-circumcision talk!

love and peace.

[jessjgh1]

The ohter board I am has a circ debate board that is majority pro-intact. The expecting clubs are not that and they host seperate intact and circ support boards (the circ one being a truth free zone).

Its not the same as here, but at least there is a chance that people here our side.

Jessica

[My_Three_Sons]

Agreed... it breaks my heart to read circ. discussions on other boards. So much misinformation, and any truth that is presented (ie, actual links to real peer-reviewed studies, etc) is shot down as 'attacking' mothers who choose to circ. It offends me, too, as a mother of all boys, to see a precious, important part of their body described as just a piece of skin, difficult to take care of, etc.

The discussions bother me more and more, it's like I've stepped into a discussion about child sexual abuse and the moms seem ok with it... my tolerance for circ. is zero now. It seems so black and white to me that it is wrong and unnecessary.

The only end to this will be when circ. is illegal... which will come, one day!

[Mommiska]

It's hard - I've not done it much, but when you do post at other boards about circumcision...well, I end up saying a lot of things I don't FEEL, although I think deep down I do believe them...

That is - I say I don't want to make circing mommies feel guilty, but here's the info your doctor should have given you before soliciting this unnecessary cosmetic surgery on your newborn...

There is a huge old part of me that DOES want them to feel guilty, because FREAK - they cut off part of their child's genitals, you know?

But another part of me doesn't want to make them feel guilty if that is going to stop them from 'getting it' about circumcision. If I can make them blame the doctors and medical establishment for offering it in the first place...well, with some people, I think you are more likely to get them to even begin to hear your argument if there is someone else they can blame for hurting their child.

It has got to be soooo difficult to read - that you damaged your child in such an intimate way. You can hear it in the pro-circ responses. So full of denial and almost hysterical excuses for what they did.

And I do, when I post, hope that I'm getting through to at least some lurkers!
And when I do post, it's great when there are other anti-circ posts backing me up...

But yeah - you feel much...'cleaner' when you can come here and state the truth about RIC with no apologies or dissembling.

[EarthMommy80]

Originally Posted by jaxinsmom

I hear you! Other more "mainstream" boards and the discusions that follow on circumcision is enough to leave me filling more than ill. When did it become more of a concern to offend an adults "senstative ears" than to protect a baby that cannot speak-up for himself??????

~Danielle (aka blissfullyhappy )

You couldn't have said it better! I have left several other "mainstream" boards after being bashed for nothing more than giving info they didn't like. I'm not heart broken though, I have no time for ANY other discussion with "women" who say "ewww uncircumsized penis's are GROSS!" I mean, are you kidding me! : I feel sorry for their children, and even my children since they will be subjected to such ignorance!

[sadkitty]

Originally Posted by trmpetplaya

yeah... it's getting hard around here sometimes though...

:

[hunnybumm]

Originally Posted by jaxinsmom

~Danielle (aka blissfullyhappy )

I end up saying things too like "I don't want anyone to feel guilty" even though I know that whatever they read will make them feel that way. But I just give straight facts, but that is sooo offensive. Most of the time their only argument is that it is the parents choice, and that I am being too pushy, or that I am trying to guilt them into doing what I want. It is so frustrating. I too post mostly for the lurkers who make think "hmm...".

I even try to preface by saying "I am very pro-intact, I feel very passionatly." And I try to add somewhere "I am not trying to make anyone feel guilty. If you feel guilty then that is on you. I don't feel guilty for decision I have made that I know are right, I would expect the same from others." And I can totally back that up. I fell super guilty for cutting my first son, but no guilt at all over not cutting my second. If someone (anyone, message board, RL, whatever) tells me that I should circ my son, I don't feel guilty, if the pro-circ people are SO sure that they are right, why do they always feel that WE are trying to make them feel guilty? I just don't get it. :

[trmpetplaya]

Yeah, if they're right and if they're comfortable with their decision then what's up with the chronic defensiveness pro-circers always exibit, IME?

love and peace.

[onelilguysmommy]

yeah or you get told "why is it that we are told we are hurting our children if we have them circumcised?" UMM, HELLO?? they apparently think surgery doesnt hurt?
ugh...

[Mommiska]

Originally Posted by hunnybumm

And I try to add somewhere "I am not trying to make anyone feel guilty. If you feel guilty then that is on you. I don't feel guilty for decision I have made that I know are right, I would expect the same from others." And I can totally back that up. I fell super guilty for cutting my first son, but no guilt at all over not cutting my second. If someone (anyone, message board, RL, whatever) tells me that I should circ my son, I don't feel guilty, if the pro-circ people are SO sure that they are right, why do they always feel that WE are trying to make them feel guilty? I just don't get it. :

:
you & trmpetplaya hit it on the head with the guilt thing...I only feel guilty about decisions I think are bad/iffy ones. Not decisions where I'm positive I did the right thing...

[Daisyuk]

Could I just ask that those who have been on mainstream boards take a break and then go back and carry on fighting their corner?

I know it's hard, I've been on debate boards, and now I'm on a sabbatical because I have no time to be looking up research and posting half the day - as well as the emotional cost of constantly talking to moronic child abusers (and some of them are fetishists who get a kick out of the whole thing, which is even more revolting) BUT if there isn't someone to put the opposing point of view, how are these idiots ever going to get the idea that it really isn't acceptable for them to be cutting up their children?

You have new children, you are qualified to be on the mainstream birth boards that I have no right to be on, you have the knowledge and experience to refute all the misconceptions, and by being there, you may get through to more than just a few. I always used to keep the thought in my mind that the more the cutters used to tie themselves in knots by being thoroughly, nauseatingly , unpleasant and completely unreasonable, not to mention just plain wrong in their facts, there were many lurkers watching what was going on, that they were putting off, and were absorbing the knowledge that I was putting out there.

People like you are NEEDED on the mainstream boards.

[grendal82002]

I've seen alot of boards ban the talk of circumcision because they dont want to upset anyone. Its rather sad becuase they allow parents who chose to circ their child to post comments and questions about adhesions and various complications that follow circumcisions, but they dont allow parents on the other side of the fence, who chose to leave their child intact, to post about their child being intact and how by not circ'ing they were able to avoid those problems. It's really sad!

[Daisyuk]

Originally Posted by grendal82002

I've seen alot of boards ban the talk of circumcision because they dont want to upset anyone. Its rather sad becuase they allow parents who chose to circ their child to post comments and questions about adhesions and various complications that follow circumcisions, but they dont allow parents on the other side of the fence, who chose to leave their child intact, to post about their child being intact and how by not circ'ing they were able to avoid those problems. It's really sad!

Yes, it is, and it needs people who have left their children intact to make their presence felt, even if it means upsetting people, whether they "allow" it or not - it can't be beyond the wit of man to point out that if they hadn't interfered with their child's penis in the first place this wouldn't happen, and then point out all the advice regarding adhesions ie. basically leave it alone and treat it as though it were intact, they will resolve on their own when the child would have been ready to be retractile anyway.

There must be some way of putting it that doesn't violate user agreements, and perhaps this is a time when user agreements need to be questioned. If enough people post perhaps it might make some of them think twice about what they are doing, and that it is far more trouble to circumcise than not. Or are the admin going to ban everyone? As I said above remember the lurkers, they are the ones you are trying to reach rather than the screaming, guilt ridden, posters who are likely to flame you.

Let's face it anything is better than silence and tacit aquiescence. That's how they've managed to stay in their comfortable cutting bubble for so long.

[TigerTail]

They will do anything to shut us up. If they shriek, stay calm. If they accuse, stay calm. They purposefully provoke to try to get intactivists riled so we will get ourselves banned (which is not hard, since on other boards they often get to play by different rules, depending on which way the mods/admins lean).

Think of the verbal abuse as taking one blow away from what they want to do to children. Think of a child saved from torment everytime you swallow your bile & respond politely.

I am no good at this! (Jen is my hero), but I am trying.

[stacyann21]

Ugh, I can totally relate. I sent someone a pm on another board with a few links to sites with info about the foreskin and she cussed me out for being an "anti-circer" :

[TigerTail]

Well, the Nazis had dreadful mean things to say about Dietrich Bonhoeffer & their other vocal opponents, when challenged. Torture seems to fulfill some aberrant human need. But as Kate Hepburn said, "Nature, Mr Allnut, is something we are put in this world to rise above." Murder is a natural human impulse, too. Somehow most of us manage to get conditioned by society to avoid commiting it (though pro-circers certainly test us! ) We need to make child torture just as tabu.