I give up on other boards - Page 2

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by TigerTail

They will do anything to shut us up. If they shriek, stay calm. If they accuse, stay calm. They purposefully provoke to try to get intactivists riled so we will get ourselves banned (which is not hard, since on other boards they often get to play by different rules, depending on which way the mods/admins lean).

Think of the verbal abuse as taking one blow away from what they want to do to children. Think of a child saved from torment everytime you swallow your bile & respond politely.

I am no good at this! (Jen is my hero), but I am trying.

I always stay calm, they can call me whatever they want (and they do). I just keep correcting thier misinformation...I stay calm. I counter every argument..When they can't justify thier abuse, guilt sets in and the name calling begins. That's when I know I have won the debate.

[Cassandra M.]

Where are all these other forums? I guess I'm clueless. I belong to a few other local online groups and am definitely vocal there.

[TigerTail]

We can't name them here, but they are the well-known parenting boards- a search will bring them up.

[jaxinsmom]

The thing I find the most frustrating is incountering misinformation/opinion disguised as fact (ex~ it didn't hurt, he fell asleep; I don't know how to clean an intact penis; no big deal; I don't have a penis so what do I know : ), and then providing links to sites that have proper, medically sound information to gently challenge people's opinion and I get slammed as Offensive, Over the top or Out of line. :
Especially frustrating when someone is talking about how they left their son intact and made sure he was "always clean" and then they talk about how he had to have a circ at 4yrs old :
Trying to correct that information, staying sensative to the mom and trying not to sound like your blamming her.....can be a bit difficult.
I try and present the information with the guise that just because YOU'RE asking the question, doesn't mean you're the only one reading the responses. I try and write my responses for everyone who could be reading, but not wanted to say anything.
At any rate, it's still quite disheartening; I do agree with DaisyUK that we still have to fight the good fight, but I NEVER thought it would be this sad. I've worked with abused and neglected parents for over 10 years, and trying to tell good, loving people that what they are doing or planning to do to their child is unnecessary (and therefore wrong) is the most difficult thing I've ever done.
It's a balancing act between diplomacy and activism and I always have this little voice in the back of my head saying *...careful, don't push too much you don't want her to run away and do it out of spite...*

[Cassandra M.]

It's a balancing act between diplomacy and activism and I always have this little voice in the back of my head saying *...careful, don't push too much you don't want her to run away and do it out of spite...*
__________________

That's it exactly. It has to be done carefully and too much force can give them the excuse to go the other way, and not even neccessarily out of spite, but also because it makes it easy for them to write us off as "extreme" or "left winged" and discount anything we say because of that.

I often wonder if more effort should be put into encouraging 18 yr old boys to sue and challenging the law....I think that's what it's gonna take to make any real difference. Cultural conditioning is just so thick.

[jaxinsmom]

Originally Posted by Cassandra M.

I often wonder if more effort should be put into encouraging 18 yr old boys to sue and challenging the law....I think that's what it's gonna take to make any real difference.

That would involve a man or men admitting there was something 'wrong' with their penis :
I do think that education needs to change to reflect the change in society. Our midwife told us the rate in Canada of circ was 20%. I didn't think much of it at the time, just "oh, yeah" as I had made my mind up to circumcise my son, but the education provided to parents isn't COMPELLING enough ~ explain the reasons it's not covered by OHIP, don't just tell someone they have to pay to get it done, that's more of a reflection of the government than the procedure!

[quarteralien]

I guess I'm not to the point where I'm willing to visit other boards on this subject. There was yet another iteration of the lower incidence of HIV idea on a mainstream board the other day, and reading 1 or 2 comments I just felt myself getting riled up and left. I think I need to learn how to breathe first before I jump into any conversations.

I have a question for those of you who do visit other boards. Do you have similar user names as the ones you have here? Would you recognize each other if you were to say band together somewhere else?

[Cassandra M.]

Originally Posted by jaxinsmom

That would involve a man or men admitting there was something 'wrong' with their penis :

But don't you think a lot of men would be interested in monetary "compensation?" I see it happening, and I think 18 yr olds suing doctors is what's going to change this whole thing around...quick! It wouldn't take much for doctors to be too afraid of repurcussions.

I'll definitely be encouraging my nephews, and any other young men, to sue.

[hunnybumm]

Originally Posted by quarteralien

I have a question for those of you who do visit other boards. Do you have similar user names as the ones you have here? Would you recognize each other if you were to say band together somewhere else?

I have the same user name at any site I sign up for, even my yahoo address. I guess that probably isn't the smartest thing, but I am not very creative and the name has kinda stuck.

When I go to other boards (I just started doing this recently) and I see a circ comment and I can't help but NOT post. I wish someone had given me that info before I had my first son. I also stay calm. The arguments most of them give aren't offensive to me, they are ignorant and rather lame. I also hear the "It' didn't hurt, he slept through it" and "It's the parents choice".

I think most of the time woman don't really want information they want validation. I won't give them that. I was honestly expecting to hear more people giving misinformation, but I really don't run into that very often. I think most people have realized that the medical community does not recognize that circ is medically necessary so they know they can't claim that with out getting 5 links that say they are wrong. They always say they did it and they don't regret it. Then in the next post fly off the handle because you are making them feel guilty. It is actually rather confusing.

Even when I have used statements like "I feel..." or "In my opinion..." or "In my family..." people take that as an attack. Like "I feel circumcision is wrong." a simple statement like that is offensive.

Ok... this is just one rambleing mess. I need to go take a nap.

[jessjgh1]

Originally Posted by quarteralien

I have a question for those of you who do visit other boards. Do you have similar user names as the ones you have here? Would you recognize each other if you were to say band together somewhere else?

I use the same name, but it probably just depends. Every once in a while I notice a persons post & style and know that they are also MDC'ers, but I'm not always great at keeping up with names and probably miss a bit, lol.

I've always thought that it would be very interesting for someone to host a website page that lists all the boards pro-circ, pro-intact, and debate as well as the groups (such as yahoo groups) that there are... there are a LOT more than one might suspect.

As for banding together, I've thought that some effort like this might help prevent some burnout. I know at times I'm ready to step out... especially now, I spend WAY too much time online and sometimes it just makes me feel worse. There are several people that may email or alert a person that has some experience in a particular area.... Like Frank, he get's called in from time to time.

They are very addicting because you do see that you ARE helping and to NOT partcipate just means that more boys will be hurt, so it is very hard to find the right balance, because it is also very emotional too.

Jessica

[quarteralien]

Originally Posted by jessjgh1

As for banding together, I've thought that some effort like this might help prevent some burnout. I know at times I'm ready to step out... especially now, I spend WAY too much time online and sometimes it just makes me feel worse. There are several people that may email or alert a person that has some experience in a particular area.... Like Frank, he get's called in from time to time.

Tag team posters! BTW, I think Frank was before my time. I see his name a bit but I don't know anything about him. Not to hijack the threaf, I'm just curious.

[Mommiska]

I've used a different name when posting...I've seen some people with the same names and others with names I don't recognise, but I sometimes wonder if they are fellow MDCers.

I get frustrated with the lack of information and hysteria that you get from the other side...but I really try to remind myself that there is a lot of information to process...and then a lot of cultural baggage, as well as sorrow & guilt (if you've circed a son) to process. And that denial is a part of that at first...the hope is that people will be able to move through the denial and finally see circumcision for what it is.

I think it is just human nature to go along with what doctors (authority figures) and what 'everyone else' is doing - see those famous experiments where most people administered clearly painful electric shocks to people begging them to stop. That doesn't make it right...but more people do it than not.

The good news for stopping RIC is that in these experiments, seeing other people refuse to obey authority gave people the courage to refuse as well...

Anyway - I'm rambling, and I need to go and put kids to bed. But I think it's helpful on these other boards if we are able to stay calm (as others have said), but also try to find (I know it can be hard!) some empathy for what some of these parents may be trying to process.

We have lots of regretful moms here at MDC...so very good, loving parents can chose to circ. I realise it's harder to get past when a parent is given information and chooses to circ anyway...but I know parents who have done that, and I know they are good parents who love their kids just like we do - they just have blinders on when it comes to this topic (like the subjects in the electric shock experiment).

I guess our job is to try to remove those blinders...

It's all very sad and hard, I know - especially when you think about what these tiny little newborn boys have to endure.