talk to me about cub scouts... - Page 2

[karen ann]

Originally Posted by Kewpie

My husband suggests http://www.campfireusa.org/start.asp. He's just started to look into it. Co-ed and looks pretty good. He's always trying to find programs similar to BSA in case parents/kids are interested in outdoor programs without the religious aspect.

I was in Camp Fire from 3rd grade through high school. It's been co-ed since the 1970s (although people still think "Camp Fire GIRLS"). I am considering looking into it when DS is a bit older (he's in kindergarten now). I loved it when I was growing up -- all the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts in the neighborhood were jealous because I got a pocket knife before they did. I can still build a fire with just dry wood.

The only thing that gives me pause, and I don't know if/how much it has changed, but when I was in Camp Fire, they did have a good bit of pseudo-Native American symbolism in the programs. If it still goes on (and it was on the way out even in the 1980s when I was a member) I probably won't present DS with the option.

[Aura_Kitten]

thank you everyone for the information!


i distinctly remember they had a table set up on the school grounds at Back To School night (and i distinctly remember snubbing them due to their stance on homosexuality : ) however..... since then i've come to know a few scouts and a LOT of Girl Scouts and they just seem like a fantastic group of kids.

i need to re-read the thread in it's entirety but it seemed like nobody touched on how much parental involvement is required (in terms of time and effort) ... if it's there sorry i missed it. if it's not, please someone answer....?

[callmeluci]

Originally Posted by Aura_Kitten

thank you everyone for the information!
i need to re-read the thread in it's entirety but it seemed like nobody touched on how much parental involvement is required (in terms of time and effort) ... if it's there sorry i missed it. if it's not, please someone answer....?

My son is a Tiger Scout this year. My DH is his den leader. It has been a lot of fun. Personally, I think that at the Tiger level especially, it takes a lot of commitment. The boys have to complete activities in 3 different areas in order to advance to the Tiger level. There are home activities such as planning a fire drill & watching the weather. There are den activities that are completed in the den & there are Go Sees. Go Sees are field trips that are required. There are 5 requirements to fulfill in each of the 3 areas. Non of them are particularly difficult, but you do have to commit to getting them done in order for your son to advance. There are also activities called Electives.
This is a good link for info, http://www.boyscouttrail.com/cub-sco...ger-scouts.asp

Also Try googling "Tiger Cub Scout".

[Potty Diva]

Ok, changed my mind.

For younger boys I do see how it can be loads of fun and after looking over the website actually want to join myself But the religion thing holds me back. Even overlooking their view on homosexuality and realising that this aspect most likely would not be discussed with the scouts (and even if it were we could discuss as a family how some individuals/groups have opinions about things that are not necessary kind or true) but should affect our views. And most likely a son of ours would be scouts with friends from the same school/grade(as already mentioned).

It just seems that by participating in this organization you are supporting their views, ya know?

I do have a great alternative to scouts though for those like me who are not religious and don't believe in such things as supernatural beings.
Here is the site:
http://www.camp-quest.org/

[Midwesternmomma]

My son has two meetings a month, and about once every other month a big event. We did the pinewood derby where he (and to a large extent, dh) made a little car and all the scouts raced them. It was so cool! The car took some effort, but the meetings are only an hour twice a month, not a big deal. The stuff in the booklet you work on on your own time.

As far as outside activites go, I think its one of the least time consuming that ds has taken part in.

[Kewpie]

Originally Posted by Potty Diva

It just seems that by participating in this organization you are supporting their views, ya know?[/url]

Yes, you are absolutely correct. This is something my husband struggles with every day. But to him have a voice of reason and understanding within the organization as well as being a positive influence in the lives of boys and young men (which is needed today more than ever) is very important too. He does not take his involvement with the BSA lightly.

I however, will not be willing to get more involved than getting our future son (should he want to participate) to and from meetings and any campouts involving mothers and sons. I just can't.

[Marsupialmom]

Originally Posted by rubelin

there is no such thing as GSA, it is the Girl Scouts of the USA (GSUSA) and men/boys can be members, although I don't know of any who were actually in troops. I do know many dads and brothers who were members, though.

I am sorry I did mess up the letters . But I was trying to point out that Girl Scout are gender specific program and the other person wasn't completely correct. You do have male leaders but not a troop for boys. If boys/brothers are members they are registered not as scouts.

[dovey]

Aside from the anti-homosexuality aspect which I find sad and despicable, I've heard other bad stories. My dp and a few highschool boyfriends were involved in the scouts. My dp's troop was strongly Mormon. They excluded my dp from certain religious activities because he was not Mormon (for example he had to sit outside while they went on a field trip to the Mormon temple in San Diego). They also refused him food on a weekend backpacking trip because he wanted to set up his tent in a different area. Stories I've heard from other people involve lots of cliqueyness and just plain ganging up and meanness from other boys. The leaders didn't seem to do their part in mediating cruelty between the kids. I even if I didn't care about their homophobic attitude, I would never trust this organization with my ds's safety.

[srain]

Originally Posted by Aura_Kitten

however..... since then i've come to know a few scouts and a LOT of Girl Scouts and they just seem like a fantastic group of kids.

Girl Scouts is a completely different organization that is unrelated to Boy Scouts. Girl Scouts only discriminate based on gender, not on sexual orientation or religion.

[craftymom]

I sturggled long and hard with this one myself. I vaguely say I'm an atheist, but then the atheists around me assume I am one of them, and woo do they bug me sometimes! I have never found anyone with similar beliefs to mine. I deeply respect nature and people, but don't worship anything. If I were to go to church, it would be the UU church 10 miles away. Dh is agnostic. We go to churches for other peoples' weddings and for funerals. We firmly believe to respect the opinions of others.

I spent a lot of time researching cub scout packs in our area. I finally chose the largest close-by one--purposefully avoiding those associated with any particular church. Racially, ethnically, religiously diverse. The religious programs are there for people, most people do not participate. Ds LOVES it, and it has been great for him (he is very shy). Now that he's in, though, I've discovered what bothers me the most is the consumerism and obsession with media and things we don't find appropriate (like sleep-in laser tag--but maybe when he's a webelo I won't care?), and Boys Life is this crazy helter-skelter-can-you-read-it thing it wasn't when my brother got it. Dh disapproves of the rah rah Americanism, but his pack isn't so bad as some of the others we have seen/met.

Now, ds is sure he will be a boy scout. _IF_ he still wants to be one come 5th grade, I will hope for this troop--see their letter:
http://www.troop2bsa.org/position.html . It won't solve my religion issue (BSA does not recogize UU), but we will talk about that when he's 11 and feeling out for himself. If our pack changes in any significant way, we may switch to their related cub pack--though a 10 mil LA drive at 8pm is a bit much for my little guy on a school night

I say do some research in your area. I feel very, very fortunate to have options. We tried for 4H, but the only group here is homeschoolers only, and so self-righteous about it that I wouldn't join even I did homeschool! Campfire is 20-miles plus away and low income only.

We have also signed on to roots and shoots, but haven't officially joined or done anything--maybe this summer. Sounds promising.

[PeacefulSeams]

Originally Posted by faerierose

: My ds has been interested in scouts, I don't know alot about them. I was not aware of the stance on homosexuality or religion. We are pagan and we homeschool. I have been in contact with the local group and they can't seem to get past the homeschool thing, everything is organized by the schools and grades : He was so exited about joining something where he can camp...Anyone know of any alternatives?

My DS is in Spiral Scouts. Earth based, Co-ed and fun!!
http://www.spiralscouts.org/metadot/index.pl

[Aura_Kitten]

wondering how many of those who h have responded are Christians... (?)

[lolar2]

Originally Posted by Potty Diva

I do have a great alternative to scouts though for those like me who are not religious and don't believe in such things as supernatural beings.
Here is the site:
http://www.camp-quest.org/

That looks like it's just a camp, though. What about weekly meetings and projects the way BSA and GSUSA have?

[Redifer]

Originally Posted by RBinTEX

I can't argue for the stance on homosexuality and religion except to say being a private organization, they can set their own rules.

Except they operate in public buildings, use government funding, etc. That, in and of itself, would make it NOT a private organization.

I would be fine with their stances if they WERE a private organization, but enough research into the subject tells me that my tax dollars help FUND this organization, therefore making it NOT a private organization.

For example, their little summer gathering that takes place I believe every 4 years or so, is held on government-owned land, which they are allowed to rent for ... $1. Meanwhile, our military-men help set up and run this party, costing an average of $5 million tax dollars per gathering. Hrmm.. private organization my rear.

If one does some reserach, you'd be surprised how much public funding goes to a "private" organization that excludes certain children.

[jkpmomtoboys]

Originally Posted by Redifer

Except they operate in public buildings, use government funding, etc. That, in and of itself, would make it NOT a private organization.

Not around here, they don't...

[talk de jour]

Where I live they use school buildings for their meetings, completely free of charge.

[SandraS]

Originally Posted by lovemyfamily6

I know enough that none of my boys will be joining. I don't like their stance on homosexuality or non-Christians.

Same here.

[Potty Diva]

Originally Posted by jkpmomtoboys

Not around here, they don't...

YES, they do!
This is a publically supported "private" club so no they houldn't be able to discriminate!

The Publically Supported Private Club

The BSA receives a number of benefits that would not be coming to it if it were truly a private group. For example, it is part of the Combined Federal Campaign [CFC], the program under which Federal employees get paid leave of absence in order to fund raise. All across the country public lands and parks are dedicated to scouting interests. This includes Fort Hill where the National Jamboree is held. The US Government maintains that facility for no other purpose.

An to clarify an apparent lack of knowledge when discussing the orginal intention of the scouts"

There is no mention of any god or religion in the original charter, which grants BSA exclusive monopoly use of the term "scouts" (later amended to allow the same for a separate Girl Scouts organization), and it probably would not have been approved by congress if there had been. It was only after the congressional charter was obtained that the word reverent was added as the twelfth scout law, and it was only in 1970 that failure to profess a religion became adequate grounds for immediate expulsion.

[jkpmomtoboys]

Originally Posted by Potty Diva

YES, they do!
This is a publically supported "private" club so no they houldn't be able to discriminate!

The Publically Supported Private Club

The BSA receives a number of benefits that would not be coming to it if it were truly a private group. For example, it is part of the Combined Federal Campaign [CFC], the program under which Federal employees get paid leave of absence in order to fund raise. All across the country public lands and parks are dedicated to scouting interests. This includes Fort Hill where the National Jamboree is held. The US Government maintains that facility for no other purpose.

An to clarify an apparent lack of knowledge when discussing the orginal intention of the scouts"

There is no mention of any god or religion in the original charter, which grants BSA exclusive monopoly use of the term "scouts" (later amended to allow the same for a separate Girl Scouts organization), and it probably would not have been approved by congress if there had been. It was only after the congressional charter was obtained that the word reverent was added as the twelfth scout law, and it was only in 1970 that failure to profess a religion became adequate grounds for immediate expulsion.

I guess I should have clarified that what I meant was that in this area they are not allowed to use public buildings for meeting due to their discrimination.

HTH

[Potty Diva]

Jen,

This is again incorrect. It isn't local donations but FEDERAL. Your troops just like every other BSA troop accepts FEDERAL funding and are actually PAID by the government. I can give you links if you would like.