Does anyone have anti-homeschooling links?

[pookel]

:

I'm in a phase of researching homeschooling again. I don't consider my 2-year-old to be homeschooling yet, but he's learning things that are more "schooly" (colors, letters, numbers) and I'm thinking about his education more.

I have tons of pro-homeschooling links of various kinds. I've read books by John Holt, Grace Llewellyn, the Moores, and more. I consider myself very pro-homeschooling.

But ... I always like to see pros and cons of any issue, especially the cons of issues I support. I want to see the arguments that opponents of homeschooling use, and decide for myself whether any of the points are valid. But I can't find any references, either online or on paper! It's nice that there doesn't seem to be a lot of anti-homeschooling activism, but surely there is SOME, somewhere. And I want to see what they're saying.

Anyone have references for me?

[phathui5]

I've honestly never seen any anti homeschooling stuff other than the NEA (teacher's union). And it's pretty obvious why they would be against homeschooling.

[illinoismommy]

You're asking the homeschooling forum

I think the anti-homeschooling people are most concerned with the social aspect and the "sheltering"

[pookel]

Originally Posted by illinoismommy

You're asking the homeschooling forum

I know, I figured someone here might have been memorably PO'd by such a link.

[Lillian J]

The only stuff I've seen is poppycock* - and there's lots of solid response to it. The main issues brought up over and over, ad nauseum, are:

• lack of socialization
• inability of parents to teach all that's necessary or even know what to teach
• inability to get into college

The HomeSchool Association of California enlisted a number of professionals who had positions in various fields related to some of the concerns to address some of it in essays. This was in order to provide good information for other professionals working with homeschooling families - like social workers, etc. Here's what's been gathered so far:
A Professional's Guide to Working With Homeschooling Families

*A technical term for hooey, hokum, and bunk

You can also look through my page on Teen Years, Homeschooling High School, College & Career Information to get a sense of how silly the arguments against homeschooling are.

- Lillian

[pookel]

Originally Posted by phathui5

I've honestly never seen any anti homeschooling stuff other than the NEA (teacher's union). And it's pretty obvious why they would be against homeschooling.

You know, I knew that about the NEA, but I'd never actually googled NEA and homeschooling. When I did, I came up with this gem:

http://www.nea.org/espcolumns/dv040220.html

Headline:
Home Schools Run By Well-Meaning Amateurs
Schools With Good Teachers Are Best-Suited to Shape Young Minds

I found the author's information at the end particularly interesting:
(Dave Arnold, a member of the Illinois Education Association, is head custodian at Brownstown Elementary School in Southern Illinois.)

I mean no insult to people who work hard in custodial jobs, but he's not even a teacher himself and he thinks he's qualified to assert that only teachers should teach children? WTF?

[pookel]

P.S. My mother, a 30-year veteran public school teacher, isn't opposed to us homeschooling, although I think she's concerned that it will be a lot of work for me. But then, she quit the NEA because they're liberals.

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by pookel

I mean no insult to people who work hard in custodial jobs, but he's not even a teacher himself and he thinks he's qualified to assert that only teachers should teach children? WTF?

Hey, and more to the point, the NEA feels it's important enough to put on their website. They don't feel parents who haven't gone through teacher training are qualified to provide for their children's education at home - but they feel that a school custodian who also has no apparent (or else they would have listed it) education in the field of education is qualified to make such judgements? - Lillian

[annettemarie]

Oh my gosh, I remember when that article first came out. I bet you could search it in this forum and get quite an eye- and ear-full.

[mom2ponygirl]

I looked and looked for anti-homeschooling resources when I was first making this decision. They were tough to find, and the ones I did were barely disguised rants. Now that we are in our third year of homeschooling, I wish I hadn't even wasted the time and effort!

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by mom2ponygirl

I looked and looked for anti-homeschooling resources when I was first making this decision. They were tough to find, and the ones I did were barely disguised rants. Now that we are in our third year of homeschooling, I wish I hadn't even wasted the time and effort!

And when you stop and think about it, we see all sorts of anti-homeschooling arguments go past in this forum - in the context of people wanting help with the hassles they're getting from teachers, parents, friends, etc. - so it woule be pretty surprising if there were something out there that we hadn't discussed to the max here already. Hm...an intriguing idea though - like maybe that alien walk-ins from Pluto are actually invading the population and pulling children out of school under the guise of homeschooling. Lillian

[pookel]

The thing is, I've met thoughtful, intelligent, reasonable people who are not fans of homeschooling. They don't necessarily want to make it illegal, but they've tried to convince me it was a bad idea. And I would think that someone like that would put forth the effort to lay out all the arguments against homeschooling in a rational way. But the only anti-homeschooling stuff I find is ridiculous rants like that one I linked to.

(Interestingly, most of those people have been non-Americans, and some of them changed their minds about homeschooling being a bad idea for me after hearing more about our school system. I got comments like, "well, okay, if our schools were like THAT, maybe we would ...")

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by pookel

(Interestingly, most of those people have been non-Americans, and some of them changed their minds about homeschooling being a bad idea for me after hearing more about our school system. I got comments like, "well, okay, if our schools were like THAT, maybe we would ...")

Ah! So they were also people who didn't really have first hand knowledge about what homeschooling is - and that's important to realize. People who are anti-homeschooling are usually people who have an unrealistic image of what it is or can be. As for non-Americans and homeschooling, I've had interesting conversations with both Germans and Swiss who had immediate strong and negative reactions when hearing we homeschooled - they had never heard of such a thing - but after discussing it for a while and hearing what it can be like, some said, in a very heartfelt way, "This is a wonderful thing you're doing for your son." They were very moved, and they actually looked kind of wistful. One Swiss friend told us he'd been thinking about it a lot while we were visiting with our teenage son. He had one child exactly the age of ours, and one a bit younger. He said he had been observing our son, and got to thinking that it could actually be a very good thing to be able to grow up without all the bullying and negativity that goes on in school - to be able to grow up so much more intact and free. It's a lot easier to talk about the subject with those who aren't familiar with it when you're someone who has actually travelled the journey - you have a lot more insights and anecdotes to share. Not to mention some pretty impressive proof of the pudding right there! But for someone with a two year old to have a conversation with others who have also not homeschooled yet - that makes for a lot of holes in the picture, because no one is speaking from personal experience. Lillian

[nicolelynn]

The problem is, the anti-homeschooling arguments are swiftly being refuted now that the "first" (as far as the wide spread movement) generation of homeschoolers are adults- read: me. It's hard to refute cold hard fact in the form of living members of society,

1. "What about socialization?". See my thread about socialization in this subforum. My brothers, dh and his siblings all have done just fine socializing not only in our childhood, but now as adults. Most people have no idea we were homeschooled until it comes up because "social reject" is not written all over our foreheads.

2. "What about their education?". Besides Thomas Edison refuting that, in my personal experience my friend got a full-ride scholarship for her high SAT scores. My other friend failed her CHSPE (California Highschool Proficiency Exam, which legally must be recognized in the state of CA as equal to a diploma by employers and state colleges) because she froze as it was her first "real test". She went on to community college at 16 anyways, got straight A's and now at 22 is an RN!

3. "But you don't have a degree, how can you teach your kids?" None of the parents of the previously mentioned girls parents have any college education.
True, when we got older my Mom would have to study ahead of us to re-learn algebra, etc. But she truly enjoyed the experience, learning much more about history and science than she learned in public school.

So as you can see, I am all for homeschooling as I am an end product and loved the experience.

But I am not going totally OT here. I HAVE seen the opposite. I have seen social rejects because the parents are uber-conservative and the kids never get outside the home. These kids either stay uber conservative social rejects, or more often go off the deep-end and into total rebellion, drugs and the whole 9 yards...some balance out and are OK. I HAVE seen the children's education suffer and the parents getting frustrated and putting them in school, only to be more frustrated because the kid is 2 years behind. I have seen the children that taught themselves because their parents didn't know anything about a particular subject.

I can also say, that was dh's family. Very conservative Christian Republicans, parents with no college education. 3 of the 5 kids turned out great; one is a police officer, 2 are rebellious and one is on drugs and homeless and all. 3 of them had problems in school when the parents did finally put them back in, being a couple of grades behind. Dh taught himself alot because his mother didn't know what to teach him. He taught himself to read at age 6. I'm not just partial, he IS the genius of the family haha.

So even though I am all for homeschooling, I fully acknowledge that it is NOT for everyone. Family dynamics and individual personalities are big factors. Anyone will tell you I have the best family ever, we are all still very close- so it worked for us. Dh and his oldest brother (the police officer) did great homeschooling, the others did better in school. Dh and I are both laid back and smart, so I think we will do fine homeschooling our kids.

So I'd say the traditional arguments are invalid, but family dynamics and personality are considerations.

[meowee]

I think you need to find adult people who were homeschooled as kids and ask their opinions.

I met an incredibly disturbed, brilliant (maybe the most brilliant person I've ever met) young man who was homeschooled from age 9 onward. ALL of his friends were online and ALL of his girlfriends had been online! He had never had a real life friend. He spent all his time smoking pot and programming, and never went to college despite being so brilliant. When I met this guy, I nearly stopped homeschooling because he seemed like the most extreme worst scenario case of what could happen. BUT, who knows what would have happened to him in school? He might have turned out worse.

I know some other homeschoolers... most of the female ones are SAHMs and the males are a mixed bag of successful or aimless. I think like with all kids, there's no guarantee how they'll turn out.

[onlyzombiecat]

You can find anti-homeschooling opinions, but they are just opinion.

http://www.home-schooling-and-homesc...schooling.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b75f38f196f.htm

http://just-cara.blogspot.com/2006/0...s-truancy.html

http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/home-sc...ing-11965.html

http://charlotte.creativeloafing.com...oid=oid%3A4502

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=35082

http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/articles/101303.htm


and finally an investigative look at the dark side of homeschooling-
http://www.design-a-website.com/dark.htm

[septmommy]

I do plan to home school, but I'll tell you about an anti-homeschooling conversation that almost changed my mind. My SIL is one of the kindest, purest, and most together people I know. She was primarily home schooled, but attended both public and private school for a short time. I asked her opinions on home schooling and she said she understood a parent's motivation for doing so, but saw too many pitfalls to make the same choice her parents did. She listed the ever popular lack of socialization. She said as a young child there were plenty of play groups and things, but once she turned 8 or 9 it was very hard to find friends to socialize with. She said she felt it presented a child with too little perspective as most of what they experienced was from only their parents point of view. She learned a lot about the outside world when she went to school. And her biggest concern was that a parents own limitations would unfortunately limit the child. She said she loved math, but her mom was just no good at it and didn't enjoy it. Because of this she wasn't able to really dive into something she loved and wasn't able to excel at it. Because I respect and like her so much I took everything she said to heart and really started to think twice about home schooling. But like every other parenting choice I will follow my gut. I just can't imagine shipping my kid off somewhere that they will not be respected for the individual they are. I will listen to her advice and try to take steps to remedy the problems she perceived. Just my 2 cents!

[meowee]

Originally Posted by septmommy

And her biggest concern was that a parents own limitations would unfortunately limit the child. She said she loved math, but her mom was just no good at it and didn't enjoy it. Because of this she wasn't able to really dive into something she loved and wasn't able to excel at it.

I had this fear too, until I realized that practically no school is suited to meet my children's needs exactly and fruitfully either. I still worry, but not as much. When a child is motivated, they can find a way to learn.

Was she not able to teach herself math? Did she not have good materials? (I'm curious, not trying to start a debate!)

[meowee]

Originally Posted by onlyzombiecat

http://just-cara.blogspot.com/2006/0...s-truancy.html

I have to admit, this one was pretty funny, and the comments were even better! "The Big Book O' Learnin"!!!! Lmao!!!

[septmommy]

Was she not able to teach herself math? Did she not have good materials? (I'm curious, not trying to start a debate!)

Luckily she knows math. Her mother was able to teach her the basics, she just felt stifled by her moms own feelings on the subject. I know that if my child has interest in an area that doesn't float my boat I will go out of my way to find someone else in their life that shares the passion and can be a more enthusiastic teacher than I.