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Thinking about this issue too much

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 
I check this board every day. (Just in case someone needs my wisdom. )

I find odd ways to get circ into a conversation, just so I can tell people it isn't necessary. (Especially people who haven't had kids yet.)

I wonder what it would be like if my dh were intact.

I fantasize about being able to go to D.C. for Genital Integrity Week. (some year)

And I thank God several times a day, every day, that dh and I chose to keep our son intact, even though we had no real information at the time. (We just made the gut decision.)

I can't stop thinking about all of those poor babies.
post #2 of 33
There are several of those types of people around here.

post #3 of 33
Thread Starter 
I also feel guilty that I haven't been fighting this fight for years--that it took the birth of my own son for me to wake up regarding this issue, KWIM?
post #4 of 33
I am so sad I didn't know someone like you when we made this decision for both my ds's. They are both circ'd. We did some research for #1, but ultimatly felt pressured (from family) to do it. It was done in the hospital and I was not there (dh was...but he doesn't remember very much about it...I'm sure he's blocked it out....) with ds #2 we did some more research and I was almost set against not doing it, but again felt pressured by family and society to do it. this time I was with him (as was my mom) and it was horrible. It felt like rape. Seriously. The dr and the nurse kept commenting on what a great block the dr had done (as in anistetic block)......they would say this as he was screaming out in pain!!! My mom and I were about in tears......it felt like such a violation...and so barbaric and unnecessary. I think that if every future parent where to actually see the procedure done, they would no longer have any doubts in their mind about what to do for their son. I am so thankful I no longer have any doubts about where I stand!
post #5 of 33
I too find myself thinking about it daily even though it is no longer an issue in our house.At least not for the moment.

I find it frustrating that parents still choose to do it despite the information out there.Many are just clouded by stories of problems with intactness that imo are often the direct result of improper care of that intact penis!

When I see the US pictures of the little boys posted on my mommy lists I can't help but think...stay in there as long as possible little one, because you parents are going to put you through a lot of trauma soon after your birth.
sara
post #6 of 33
Quote:
I fantasize about being able to go to D.C. for Genital Integrity Week. (some year)
I went last year. It was very interesting and I have neat pictures from it, but I don't think I'll go every year, nor do I think its worth fantasizing about. It was fun meeting all the "names" though- Paul Fleiss, Frederick Hodges, Marilyn Milos, etc.
post #7 of 33
I find myself thinking about circumcision every day too. For me it is a huge issue.
I went for a haircut this morning and there was only one hairdresser there, and I noticed that she was pregnant. I asked if she knew whether the baby was a boy or girl. She didn't know and mentioned that she needed to sign up for birth classes soon. I mentioned that one of my young brothers in law had recently had a boy, and that I was so glad they didn't circ him. She said she didn't know much about it, but that her mother had watched a show where it stated that many men were quite angry that it had been done to them, and that it was not needed, so she wouldn't do it. Yay !! Good for Grandma !! It just made me feel so happy.
post #8 of 33
Add me to the list of people who think about this many, many times a day. I am constantly on the lookout for pregnant women and am getting braver about approaching total stangers with my information. I have business cards I give them with the cirp.org web address on them, and I have "Say No to circumcision" and the cirp address on my personal checks- I circle it whenever I write a check. Always looking for a way to bring the subject into a conversation and am just waiting for my siter to mention it again. When first ds was born, she was horrified and let me know that he would be mocked and would look like an anteater. I wasn't very well-versed on speaking about circ yet, so I didn't have much to say, but if she ever mentions it again- LOOK OUT!!!!! The other thing is that I have too much tact than to try to make someone feel bad about their decision so I would probably still temper what I said to her.

We live in a country that allows this type of thing to go on- it amazes me.

Jackie
post #9 of 33
Thread Starter 
I noticed my dh's scar for the first time the other day. Amazing I haven't "seen" it before.
post #10 of 33
I'm here almost every day too!

When my dh and I were dating, actually very early into dating!, I asked him how he felt about all sorts of parenting issues. When I asked him what he thought about circumcision he said (I"d never do it to a child and frankly, I'd like mine back!" THAT was when I knew he was marrying material!!! I had learned enough about circ to know that I couldn't marry a man who would allow his newborn child to be hurt by such an unnecessary thing.

I am in touch with my birthing class teacher ( a good friend) and we talk about circ frequently. She does not get thru to alot of the people who take her class and it drives her nuts. I'm hoping to compile some information for her to hand out. I think she need some stronger stuff!!

I try to educate where I can. I think if you can plant the seed in the mind before a woman even conceives, it is a good thing. I have talked to all my friends who have yet to have babies about it so when the time comes it isn't such a foreign topic that they can be bullied about.

All of us who are trying to educate really do make a difference to people. We just may not see the results. We have to keep it up!!
post #11 of 33
Puppy:

We certainly are making a difference. I visit several discussion sites and in the past year, I have seen a change of the tide. There are a lot more people who are open to the discussion because they have been made aware of the issue. That is peer pressure at work and it is the medical professionals begining to get a clue and telling parents.

With the attack on this needless and harmful cosmetic alteration on men's bodies coming from all fronts, the end is near. Sometimes just a single action is sufficient to put an end to it such as when England ended insurance coverage. They were at about the same place we are and are now at about a 1% circumcision rate. That was mostly because of that single action.



Frank
post #12 of 33
They'll tell two friends ... and they'll tell two friends ... etc. ....

I totally agree it's like opening the conversation for them to continue broaching the topic (even if they don't agree). It's about making this a topic of conversation. It used to be taboo to dispute ANY *medical* claims of any sort at any time. Planting a seed doesn't always produce fruitage at a foresee-able time. Apple trees take (?)three(?) years to produce(?)
post #13 of 33
I am so lucky that it is not real common here for non religious or medical reasons..It was never even a consideration to me..I also feel for people that are in that pressured situation..I know a few that felt they had to or have to and I can not tell them enough to please research it, and please go and see one done because it does hurt them...I know they use numbing agents sometimes these days but I personally seen how red, sore it was afterwards..And the parents had to gove pain relif for at least 1 week and they cried everytime they went wee wee..My sons don't.....

Geez it makes me sad and cringe to think of what those babies go through......Keep talking about ladies and gents, hopfully one day it will be fully banned...
post #14 of 33
I think about this all the time now too it seems. As a matter of fact, while I was getting my ds to sleep last night I began wondering what it would take for mainstream parents to really understand how unnecessary circ is. (not to mention how painful, traumatic, etc. etc.) And I figured that something was going to have to happen related to money to get enough coverage for most news stations to air---and here's what I thought...I wonder if we'll ever hear of a case of a young man suing doctors or his own parents for taking away part of his body unnecessarily.

Yeah, I know its a really scary thought for some parents and maybe even doctors, but I seriously wonder if we're not too far from seeing something like this happen. Kids have filed for "divorce" from their own parents--I guess anything is possible.

Keep up all the good work in spreading the word and educating so this issue will stop being an issue!!
post #15 of 33
It has happened and is happening as we speak- look up William Stowell. There are lawyers who specialize in cricumcision cases.

I too see the tide turning. On another circ board, someone posted a link to a thread where the women were discussing circo on their birth board. The vast majority of the women were NOT circ'ing, and this was a pretty mainstream site. I was sooo pleasantly shocked.

Jackie
post #16 of 33
I'm glad I found this board before our son was born. I couldn't imagine circ'ing him now, but we might have if I hadn't. Or maybe not, I couldn't imagine purposely letting something like that be done to him, it was really an instinctual decision! I have also noticed that a majority of the people I know choose not to circ.
post #17 of 33
Stowell settled his case out of court with the doctor and hospital. As is usual, the terms of the agreement were not made public. Unfortunately, this got little media coverage. I would have preferred a highly publicised court trial. There was also the Flatt vs. Kantak case that was tried in N. Dakota this year. I also understand that Attorneys for the Rights of the Child is recruiting potential plaintifs on college campuses. It's happening, but it is not going to happen over night. It took us 120 years to get to the turn around point about 10 years ago. But, in that 10 years, the rate has dropped about 1/3 which is amazingly rapid for something like this. I believe when statistics come out that it has dropped below 50%, it will start to end of it's own weight. I would suggest you click on my link at the bottom of this post.

The "Mother Lion" instinct is alive in mothers but the medical profession and myth and urban legend has subverted it. Mothers want to believe that there is no need to cause pain and danger to their children but the myth leads them to believe that circumcision will do this. As more and more mothers learn the truth, the myths will fade away and make it easier for them to believe that circumcision is against their instinct that they naturally believe.




Frank
post #18 of 33
I too find myself deeply burdened by this issue. It's never far from my mind. I don't even have a son, but I see this as a child welfare issue altogether...not just a gender issue (although it freaks me out with disgust that in other parts of the world young girls are subjected to circumscision as well!!! ).

My sister in law is expecting their first in just a couple of months and will circ if it's a boy. I have given her literature about it and my husband (her older brother) has spoken with her about it but she's not moved by the information. She seems rather insulted we would even bring up the issue to her in the first place. I intend to put in one more "plug" before the birth, but I have to be careful about my approach. I find myself hoping she has a girl.

Circ is nothing short of a society sanctioned torture. I don't think those of us who hold this issue close to our hearts are by any means "off balance." Maybe we're ahead of our times in some way---I like to think/hope that future generations will begin to see the light on a much larger scale than today.

I am blessed with two dds and hope to one day add to our family again. Even though I could honestly not care any less whether we have another girl or a boy...I would enjoy the opportunity of having a son so as to be able to say to friends/family members (especially my father in law) why not for all the money in the world would I elect to have my son circ-ed.

Just the other day I was channel surfing while my dds were napping and I happened across a show (A Baby Story on TLC) where a jewish infant boy was being circ-ed during the jewish ceremony. He screamed in agony while everyone around him chanted. It brought me to tears (which is not an easy thing to do unfortunately). My stomach ached for him.
post #19 of 33
Thread Starter 
I now see circ. as being akin to rape. (Deeply violating someone helpless in the most private of areas.) I hope that doesn't offend anyone, but that is the way I see it.

( I didn't say exactly the same as rape; I said akin. ) So it's no wonder this issue disturbs me deeply.

I find myself distancing from anyone who has anything "positive" to say about circ.

I want my MIL to know exactly what she had done to my dh--I want her to have to apologize!! But she never will. It was just so common during that era.

(And she commented that we left ds intact just to be "different." Yep, that's the kind of "different" I like!)

My sis (who doesn't have children yet) is on the fence about circ. It would forever damage my relationship with her if she chose to circ. I can see how/why women leave men over this issue.

My dh reminds me to use positive energy--to not get depressed, but to remember the babies I have saved.
post #20 of 33
mamajulie - your input on these boards alone has proven to be of tremendous value to those out there who are questioning the circumcision process. Please do not doubt you have made a difference to others.
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