I need "proof" of religious exemption...any ideas?

[christifav]

DH and I do not formally attend a church. We have our own religious beliefs and never found a church that we can get 100% on board with. That said, we DO believe that our children's bodies are perfect as God/Mother Nature made them and are anti-vax for both medical and spiritual reasons.

I am trying to get my kids into a federally-funded childcare center and they only accept a religious exemption. They are requiring me to provide a letter from the head of our church saying that one of the basic tenets of the religion is not to vax and affirming that DH and I are "active members" of said church.

How can I do this when we don't have a church, per se? DH said he would get ordained on the internet if he had to, but that seems pretty extreme. Do I have to start my own church here, or are there other options I haven't thought of yet?

[MommytoHHH]

It sounds to me like what they're doing is illegal.

Texas has religious, philosophical, and medical exemptions. Here's the law on it. I don't see anywhere where it says you have to have a letter from your church. And I don't see how they can deny you a philosophical exemption. http://909shot.com/state-site/Texas.htm

I know there are other people with more experience on this - hopefully they can help you.

[dakotamidnight]

I'm sure LI will be along here to explain it better - but TX has all three exemptions {Religious, Philosphical, and Medical} Assuming you are in TX from your location in your profile - if I'm wrong correct me.

You can read more about TX and their official exemptions here

You will need to send the state a letter requesting the form {I faxed mine}, and they will send out the official state form. Have it notarized, and you should be good to go. Since the childcare center gets federal funds, they can't turn it down.

oh and BTW - that childcare center is very incorrect and I'm sure LI or someone else will help you set them straight.

[LongIsland]

The school must be looking at some old TX statute.

Originally Posted by dakotamidnight

You can read more about TX and their official exemptions here

Use that link and follow the instructions and FAX out your request Monday morning - you'll have your five (5) forms by the end of the week. Make sure you also read the "Frequently Asked Questions" page.

Do not notarize one of the exemptions until you are ready to use it because they're only good for two years once you execute it.

[Plummeting]

Is it a military facility? They commonly try to pull that crap (or completely deny the existence of exemptions) at DoD-sponsored day cares.

[christifav]

Originally Posted by Plummeting

Is it a military facility? They commonly try to pull that crap (or completely deny the existence of exemptions) at DoD-sponsored day cares.

Yes, it is a military facility, so I'm not sure if they are required to allow TX state exemptions or if they play by their own rules????

[Willowkarr]

I am from CT and don't really know TX laws, HOWEVER, how can only people who go to church be exempt?! I am a solitary Wiccan, the only person "above" me in status of my religion is the God and Goddess, now, if I had to get them to sign a release form, I'd be SOL. Legally you do not have to tell them what religion you are, just that it is against your beliefs. And, yes, Military schools AND EVEN recruits can be exempt from vaccinations, they are still part of the USA and still have all the rights civilians do!! Good luck to you!

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by Willowkarr

I am from CT and don't really know TX laws, HOWEVER, how can only people who go to church be exempt?! I

No, you do not have to be a member of any church and/or have clergy sign your exemption. Even if your state has a law on the books saying this is so, the US Supreme Court has ruled otherwise and that law is unenforceble.

Texas has a one size fits all philosophically worded exemption.

Legally you do not have to tell them what religion you are, just that it is against your beliefs.

True.

And, yes, Military schools AND EVEN recruits can be exempt from vaccinations, they are still part of the USA and still have all the rights civilians do!! Good luck to you!

Not true. The military defends democracy; it does not practice it. The military has its own system of law (The Uniform Code of Military Justice) and regulations.

Religious exemptions attempted after enlistment/commissioning can limit or end a career if granted, or just be denied altogether.

Though the military cannot compel military dependents to do anything, if said dependent wants to use military facilities they have to abide by their rules. Plummeting has the reg one can use on which you can base your right to a religious exemption.

If we don't have a sticky for military/dependent vaccinations exemptions I think we should:: .

State Exemptions:
http://www.909shot.com/state-site/state-exemptions.htm

http://www.mercola.com/2000/dec/10/v..._exemption.htm
There are, I believe, 19 states that currently allow a philosophical objection to vaccinations for school admission. Thanks to the incredible groups like the National Vaccine Information Center....

However, 48 states (all but Mississippi and West Virginia) allow for a religious exemption. There has been a supreme court ruling on this issue which provides broad interpretation of the meaning of religious exemption.

A parent's religious "beliefs" are sufficient to qualify for the religious exemption. The "belief" is defined as a faith that occupies a place in their lives parallel to that held by the orthodox belief in God or any sincere religious beliefs which are based upon a power or being to which all else is subordinate and on which all else is ultimately dependent

They qualify if they believe that not giving the vaccines is what they must do to follow God's will for them in fulfilling their role as responsible parents. Their child's immune system is a creation of God and that God has given their child and that to vaccinate would violate their faith in what God created.

The parents do NOT have to be part of a recognized religious organization. You don't have to join any church, you can be any religion at all. But if they are a part of an established religion (Catholic, Protestant, Islam, etc.) they can still have their own perceptions of what it means to follow God's will which may be counter to what that organization states.

The case is established with legal precedent at the US Supreme Court level. (United States Supreme Court in Sharon Levy vs. Northcourt cases)

You can review one of the cases that helped set this law by clicking here:http://www.goodlight.net/nyvic/law/wexler/default.htm.

::

[Plummeting]

Who is the active duty member, or is it both of you? If it's both of you, you could be up crap creek, because they can require that of members. If not, then they can't require it of the dependant. For dependants, personal belief is what matters. I have the reg that mentions religious waivers, but it doesn't mention how dependants can obtain one. If one of you isn't a member, then you need to explain to them that that requirement is only valid for members and that dependants are allowed to exercise personal religious freedom.

[christifav]

I am active duty and have no choice but to get every vax under the g-d sun. I have been able to "milk" the fact that I have been pregnant or nursing for the last 3 years as a reason not get any shots and the immunization techs haven't questioned me or given me any hassle. However, I know that at some point they will tell me that I can no longer use that excuse and it will be back to getting shots, anthrax and all, for me.

DH is a civilian and he refuses vaxs. The childcare center has not argued my right to a religious exemption, but their requirement is for me to provide that letter. I'm about to have DH start his own church.:

[Plummeting]

Okay, scratch it all (I'm editing my original post). I found a form that mentions the religious waiver at the bottom. It does state that a request for a religious or medical waiver must be supported by official documents from church or medical authority. It does NOT say that those official documents have to state that vaccination is against the basic tenets of your church and that you and your DH are active members. That language is taken directly from the DoD instruction for members and in the absence of any such wording for DoD childcare centers, it does not apply. "Official documents" could include a letter from a member of the clergy of any religion, stating that they are aware of and support your religious opposition to vaccination. They are attempting to interpret "official documents" narrowly, to include only the official doctrine of any religion.

The reason that doesn't work is that the form does NOT specify that this is the only type of "official document" they will allow AND because they wouldn't require a pre-existing official document to allow for medical waivers. What I mean is, for a medical waiver they would allow any doctor to write you a note exempting you from any or all vaccines - they would consider a note from a doctor to be an official document. Therefore, a note from a minister, priest, priestess, whatever, is also an official document. In the absence of any distinction between what constitutes an official document from a church authority for a religious waiver and what constitutes an official document from a medical authority for a medical waiver, the same rules should apply for each: basically a letter should suffice.

If they want to demand that you provide the whole tenets and active members crap, then they need to show you where that language exists in the documents pertaining to DoDDS child care programs. They don't have the right to interpret it any way they wish, nor should they interpret it to narrowly allow only the type of documentation required for active duty members, unless there is something in a DoDDS document/instruction that contains that description. In the absence of it, they are attempting to restrict your spouse's right to personal religious freedom without any authority to actually do so. Basically, they're trying to make it up as they go along - to impart additional meaning that was never intended. (Unless of course they have that language in an actual document somewhere, but I'm almost positive they don't.)

So then you'd have to get a clergy person to sign a notarized statement (how much more official can you get than having it notarized?) that they have listened to your POV and agree that you have a sincere religious opposition to vaccinating. Your DH could talk to a chaplain. He'd just need to avoid any mention of the science, probably. Stick to saying that you believe God created your children perfectly and that vaccinating a perfectly healthy child is blasphemous, since it suggests that man can improve upon God's perfect creation. You don't sound really Judeo-Christian, but I'd stick to a Judeo-Christian sort of explanation, iykwim. I think you'd be more likely to get a chaplain to go along that way, even though it shouldn't matter - everyone has their biases.

I dunno - that's what I'd do. There ARE bases out there who allow children to attend without providing that whole tenets and active members crap, so I'm like 99.9% sure that it is not included anywhere in DoDDS documents - especially since I can't find it. I'd just get broken record with them - repeat over and over that if they can't provide that language, then they have no right to unilaterally and without authority decide to infringe upon the right of your husband, a civilian, to exercise his right to religious freedom. Demand that they show you documentation of that wording or else accept a signed clergyperson's statement as an official document just like they'd accept a signed doctor's note as an official document.

[minkajane]

I am going through this exact thing at my base daycare. I am active duty, STBX is not. They are trying to insist that I have a letter from a church saying that its dogmatic beliefs preclude vaccination. I am solitary Wiccan, so there goes that. Even my commander (who supports me on this) is getting the runaround. They insist that I need it, but they can't provide any official documentation to back it up. All the guidance we can find from DoD instructions, AFIs, etc, says that all I need is a documented religious exemption. At one point it even states that the parents can just provide a memo stating that vaccination (or "immunization" as they call it) is against their sincerely held religious beliefs. I've been trying to get into base daycare since November (after they "lost" our paperwork a year and a half ago) and my commander's been involved since December. We have gotten NO response or intelligent answer besides "You have to have the vaxes."

I'm about to go to the JAG office over this. It's clearly religious discrimination (which I've gotten enough of around here). They are refusing my son his right to use a military facility because of the religious beliefs of his parents. It's like saying "Sorry, you can't use the commissary unless you're a Christian." Nobody would stand for that, but THIS they'll put up with! It's almost not worth it, since I get out in November, but what about the next family that comes through and is told they have to get the vaxes or their child can't attend base daycare?

[CherieBerry]

I'm the mother of a non-vax'd child at a military (Navy) CDC in IL. The CDCs have to follow the rules of the state they are in. Sorry to hear that they are giving you such a problem. Are they accredited by NAEYC? Maybe you can get them involved? Or even the State's Child and Adult Care Food Program (CACFP)? If they are taking the State's money through that program (which most CDCs do), they have to abide by the rules.

[christifav]

Thanks for all the advice on military CDCs. I think I am going to
a.) get the TX state exemption form done and notarized and
b.) talk to the chaplain or perhaps the reverend at my mother's church and see if they will sign a letter saying that, while I may not be a member of THEIR church, it is my religious belief not to vax my children.

I hope that will suffice. I really don't want this to turn ugly and have to get JAG or my chain of command involved if I can help it. (Mostly just b/c I don't have time to deal with it all.) I really don't want to have to use a civilian facility, but of course with them, the TX exemption form would suffice.

I'll keep you posted and if push comes to shove with these people, you can bet I will be asking for more advice!

Thanks again.
~Christi

[CherieBerry]

Honestly, if you were to give them fabricated "proof", would they know the difference? One can easily become an ordained minister of the Universal Life Church via internet....

[christifav]

Originally Posted by CherieBerry

Honestly, if you were to give them fabricated "proof", would they know the difference? One can easily become an ordained minister of the Universal Life Church via internet....

Looking into that right now...but wouldn't it be strange for DH to sign the letter as our clergy?

[starlight82]

I can provide you with the AFI for Air Force Family Child Care that allows a religious exemption, and one for DODD's schools the states the same, but I have yet to find one for the CDC.

Our CDC refuses to allow exemptions as well. I haven't fought it because I don't need to use it.

[christifav]

Update

I submitted the TX state affidavit of philosophical/religious exemption and I got a phone call from a child-care worker (not sure her exact title) named Heidi.

Heidi insisted that I still need the proof that our family are active participants in the church and that the church's basic tenants are against vaxing.

I said, "Ok, all I need from you is the source document stating the requirement."

Heidi gets flustered. There is no source document, this is the General's policy.

Me: "Well, the General is free to make policy, but he needs to have it in a policy letter. Can you please get me a copy of his policy letter so I can have the exact verbiage of the requirement?"

Heidi says she will get back to me, but reiterates that I will need to provide those letters before my children are allowed into the CDC.

Should I:
a) Fake letters that are exactly what she is looking for
b) Provide a letter from a clergyperson stating that vaxing is against my religion (as Plummeting suggested)
c) Fight this and go to the legal office and demand to see a regulation requiring it.

Help!!!

[theretohere]

I'd start with C. It sounds like they don't have a leg to stand on and are misinformed.

[Plummeting]

I'd do C. Actually, "the General" is not free to make policy for DoD-sponsored childcare facilities. Federal childcare is a centralized system with one set of rules. The rules aren't created by whoever the hell decides he or she is in charge of the facility at any one location. Perhaps you and CherieBerry can PM each other, so you can find out her exact location? That way you'd have proof that there are other facilities allowing for religious exemption without all the rigamarole yours is trying to put you through.

Anyway, if you go to legal your defense needs to be that they are attempting to unilaterally and without authority limit your spouse's right to religious freedom. I would explain how the exemption system works in your state, how other DoD childcare facilities do allow for a spouse's personal religious belief and how the tenets and beliefs of an official church nonsense illegally limits your spouse's right to religious freedom by denying him the right to hold his own personal beliefs. It has to be about the religious freedom of your spouse and child, since you have none, according to the instruction on vaccines for military members. You need to point out that the part of the instruction (Immunizations and Chemoprophylaxis) that requires all that nonsense in order to grant exemptions is for members, not spouses or children, since spouses and children enjoy the same right to religious freedom as all the other civilians in America.

Federal courts have determined more than once that it is illegal for states to require membership in any specific religion in order for parents to exempt their children from vaccines.

The United States Constitution mandates that, if New York wishes to allow a religiously-based exclusion from its otherwise compulsory program of immunization of school children, it may not limit this exception from the program to members of specific religious groups, but must offer the exemption to all persons who sincerely hold religious beliefs that prohibit the inoculation of their children by the state. - Judge Leonard D. Wexler, United States District Court, Eastern District of New York

Therefore, it would be illegal for the DoD to require your husband to be a member of a specific church or religious organization as a condition of accepting a waiver for his children, since he is a civilian. DoD facilities cannot discriminate against spouses and children on the basis of race, religion, etc., etc.

I would keep repeating that they are violating your spouse and child's Constitutional right to religious freedom, without any authority to do so. There's no written policy allowing it, other facilities don't allow it and it's illegal. Repeat, repeat, repeat ad infinitum.

Then if that doesn't work, I'd join that online church Gitti has linked to. They let anyone join and it is part of their official religious tenets not to vaccinate. Wouldn't that just chap their asses if they said no all the way and you showed up with a little piece of paper from an online church, which they'd then be required to accept? :