The Lord of the Rings Petition

[Neth Naneth]

Hello MDC Lord of the Rings Fans,

I personally am very upset about the production of The Hobbit (due out in 2009) possibly not going to be directed by Peter Jackson (The wonderful filmmaker behind The Lord of the Rings) and hope that some of you feel the same way. If you do please sign the petition below to encourage the fact that fans of LotR want Peter Jackson to direct The Hobbit. I know I do.

http://www.petitiononline.com/hobfilm/petition.html

[Arduinna]

I thought Jackson and New Line couldn't come to an agreement after the lawsuit regarding royalties from LOTR, so I kinda doubt a petition will do anything. I read a press release from Jackson last year IIRC regarding it.

[Zoeanne]

signed it

[JessicaS]

Not after what he did to Return of the King.

[Hollycrand]

I am trying to decide whether or not to sign the petition as I have seen some less than flattering articles about his attitude towards New Line and royalties.

What did he do to Return of the King, if I may ask?

[JessicaS]

"Arwyn's fate is tied to the ring now!"

"Go away Sam!"

"ok Frodo I'll go back to the shire and leave you climbing up a cliff in Mordor with just Gollum"

"We must decide to reforge Narsil FOR Aragorn as obviously he is too wishy washy to do it two movies ago"

In books Denethor has the beacons lit before Gandalf ever comes back from Rohan and didn't require a lecture.

Aragorn balks at the Paths of Dead, in books he not only plans to go..he sings a song about it.

Arwyn balks at staying in Middle Earth. Tolkien wrote that Arwyn's story was the saddest of all, in the books she never strayed from that.

This actually bugged me..they overplayed Arwyn in the films but the MOST brave thing that Arwyn actually did in the books, they changed.

PJ added HUGE flaws to the characters like they are trying to avoid things or trying to think of a way out.

In the books, it isn't because they are incredibly superhuman/unrealistically brave. They just know they HAVE to do what they are doing.

There are a few characters who actually have much of a choice and one was Arwyn and she never hesitated.

And..Faramir was robbed!

My issue is a lot of content was *added* and it wasn't good content, it was bad content and much of it was out of character for the characters.

I wasn't *as* annoyed after seeing the extended version a lot of things were added that I was glad to see.

[BookGoddess]

I have mixed feelings about Peter Jackson directing The Hobbit. This is coming from a die-hard LOTR fan. I own the HoME (History of Middle-Earth) books as well. I revel in my LOTR geekdom.

Important parts of the story were left out and unimportant parts were emphasized. I don’t like the scenes in which characters are not like they are described in the books. That's what bothers me the most about PJ's direction. I will admit that the films are visually stunning and I own the Extended Editions of all three yet I think Jackson fell short in some areas.

Adding to what Abimommy said ...

- I thought Glorfindel was robbed too. Arwen didn't have a role in saving Frodo's life after he was stabbed with a Morgul blade by the Nazgul. It was Glorfindel who did it. Heck, Arwen didn't have a single line of dialog in the entire LOTR story, excluding the Appendices. Introducing her as an Elven warrior-princess doesn’t work at all with the softer character Jackson tries to create in the later LOTR films.

- Aragorn's fake dying scene in the river was lame especially when you knew he was alive.

- Arwen going halfway to the Havens and turning back is also awful. She was sure about her choice of giving up mortality.

- Elves weren't at Helms Deep in Rohan. Didn't happen in any way, shape, or form. Haldir didn't die. He lived a long happy life. Ok, not sure how happy he was but he certainly wasn't killed in a melodramatic fashion by an orc.

-Beheading the Mouth of Sauron was another lame move that didn't happen

- Faramir wasn't swayed by the Ring's promise of power. He was a good man. He was created as a contrast to his brother Boromir. Faramir was to have self-control and integrity. He never took the two hobbits to Osgiliath so that he could have the Ring.

-Frodo never showed the Ring to the Nazgul on a winged steed.

- Frodo's character was changed. The scene where Gollum turns Frodo against Sam and causes him to leave was a total mutation of Frodo's character.

- Too many scenes of Arwen/Aragorn and not enough of Faramir/Eowyn. Viewers who haven't read the book would be surprised by the quick get together of Eowyn/Faramir at the end of Return of the King film since the whole section from the Houses of Healing is missing.

[BinahYeteirah]

Originally Posted by BookGoddess

- Faramir wasn't swayed by the Ring's promise of power. He was a good man. He was created as a contrast to his brother Boromir. Faramir was to have self-control and integrity. He never took the two hobbits to Osgiliath so that he could have the Ring.

-Frodo never showed the Ring to the Nazgul on a winged steed.

- Frodo's character was changed. The scene where Gollum turns Frodo against Sam and causes him to leave was a total mutation of Frodo's character.

Yeah, this stuff really bothered me. I was like, "Wha? Faramir was the good guy." My husband never read the books, and he thought, based on the movies, that Frodo "failed" at the end. That he totally wacked out (because he claimed the Ring and turned against Sam, etc.), but really he did what he was supposed to do. The fact that he claimed the Ring was just because of the power of it and no one else would have made it half as far.

[JessicaS]

Originally Posted by BookGoddess

I have mixed feelings about Peter Jackson directing The Hobbit. This is coming from a die-hard LOTR fan. I own the HoME (History of Middle-Earth) books as well. I revel in my LOTR geekdom.

My baby milestones are written in an old Tolkien calender. I just consider it inherited geekdom.

- I thought Glorfindel was robbed too. Arwen didn't have a role in saving Frodo's life after he was stabbed with a Morgul blade by the Nazgul. It was Glorfindel who did it. Heck, Arwen didn't have a single line of dialog in the entire LOTR story, excluding the Appendices. Introducing her as an Elven warrior-princess doesn’t work at all with the softer character Jackson tries to create in the later LOTR films.

Oh woops I edited as I was afraid I was going on too much of tangent

The thing with Glorfindel is HE is the one who made the 1,000 year old prophecy about "no man can kill the Witch King" so when the Witch King says to Eowyn "No living man may hinder me!!!" It doesn't have same effect

When Eowyn removes her helm and responds "I am no man." (in books she has a nice little speech)

It just seems like a "Oh yeah!!!" kind of statement.

In books this is actually a big moment. A fulfillment of prophecy occurs here (and in books it is there that one realises Eowyn has snuck in with the Rohirrim)

In movies Eowyn looks like she is about to wet herself. In books it is Witch King who is about to wet himself as he realizes he is vunerable.

And they left out Tom Bombadil so you don't find out about Merry's sword from the ancient enemies of the Witch King and that it broke the shields the Witch King had so Eowyn COULD kack him.

- Arwen going halfway to the Havens and turning back is also awful. She was sure about her choice of giving up mortality.

Yup! That made me mad! Er..as I ranted about.

- Faramir wasn't swayed by the Ring's promise of power. He was a good man. He was created as a contrast to his brother Boromir. Faramir was to have self-control and integrity. He never took the two hobbits to Osgiliath so that he could have the Ring.

Faramir was educated by Gandalf so he had a much different idea about things. Frodo *offers* him the ring and Faramir states quite clearly he wouldn't pick it up if he found it laying by the road.

He is less tempted than many of the characters Frodo offers it to. He reacts like Frodo tried to hand him a pile of maggots. "The One Ring? No thanks!!"

- Too many scenes of Arwen/Aragorn and not enough of Faramir/Eowyn. Viewers who haven't read the book would be surprised by the quick get together of Eowyn/Faramir at the end of Return of the King film since the whole section from the Houses of Healing is missing.

I was so glad to see the Houses of Healing in the extended version!!

The part that was added with Arwyn that I did like, was the part where Elrond tells her what her future will be. That is in Appendixes (ok not Elrond telling her but still...) she knew that is what would happen to her.

[Trinitty]

AGREED, abimommy.

Sorry to the original poster, this is not a personal attack, but I would start a petition to keep Jackson's grubby little hack hands OFF of the Hobbit. At least leave something untouched.

He wrought havoc on the storyline and I'm really pissed off about it because there are now thousands, if not millions, of people who have watched the films and now have a perverted story in their minds when it comes to LOTR. This is not some flash-in-the-pan pulp fiction hit that will be forgotten in a couple of years, this is one of the best works of fiction written in the English language.

These are not quibbles over "interpretation" or leaving things out for timing. I can deal with the fact that the scouring of the shire was left out for time.... what I CAN'T allow for is CHANGES to the very characters in the story. How dare he change Tolkien's characters?! They were carefully crafted that way for a reason.

We own every book on the Middle Earth world.

I can't understand how someone who has read the books and really loved them can stomach the films when they are really put to the test and thought about.

They are so BEAUTIFUL and visually grand that it is really easy to not see the massive flaws. My father is one of those people.... he says he "keeps them seperate" in his mind, but he really doesn't. I've heard him say several things about the LOTR which are from the FILMS and he doesn't realise that they are taking place of the books in his mind.

Film is such a powerful medium that it can swamp out your own mentally created characters from books. I struggle to not envision Ellijah Wood when I think "Frodo" in my mind.

However, this isn't as big a deal to me when it comes to the LOTR films. For the most part, the casting was really well done and I pictured the characters to be very similar to the actors chosen. Except Aragorn..... Vigo was terrible as Aragorn. Elrond and Arwyn and a few others weren't that great either.... but again, that isn't NEARLY as much of a problem as actual character and story-line changes.

What really rubs salt in the wound is that the films are really a gorgeous sight to behold.... it's a terrible disappointment to see the WRITING (the most important part of a STORY) just utterly neglected and twisted. The sets and the costumes and the use of language and the olephants and the Orcs and Gollum and the Balrog and the special effects and the cities are all SO wonderfully done, that it feels like a big cheat.

Sorry for the thread-drift! This is a raw nerve.

[journeymom]

Totally agreed about Faramir. The movie's story gained nothing by making Faramir weak.

Totally agreed about Viggo Mortensen. Honestly, Sean Bean looks more like how I always pictured Aragorn.

All the rest of it I can handle. I LOVE the movies. They are not the books and I don't expect them to be word for word translations onto film.

Another divergence, in the book Gandalf wants to go through the mines of Moria and has no worries about what he'll meet there. The movie makes it seem as though Gandalf has some idea what will happen to him in the mines. Though I kind of like that change. It made him seem more omniscient and when the Balrog got him, it was all the more tragic.

How are Frodo's actions at Mount Doom in the movie so different from the book? To my understanding, he really did 'fail', he couldn't drop the ring into the fires. And that's where Gollum's roll was vitally important. That's why Gandalf's admonition to Frodo about Gollum was important ("Can you decide who should live or die? Gollum has some part to play for good or evil", or words to that effect.) Aside from Sauron himself, Gollum had possessed the ring longest. Plot-wise, it's utterly significant that Gollum was the one who destroyed the ring, and it's important to note that even then, it was an accident. No one, not even tough, pure-of-heart Frodo, could withstand the corrosive power of the ring.

It does not diminish Frodo's incredible accomplishment, though. No one else could have carried the ring all the way to the cracks of Mount Doom, that's why Frodo was chosen to carry the ring. (Though it's not like Frodo made a fully informed decision when he chose to carry the ring. Fate had a big hand in the sequence of events in LotR.)

[KittyKat]

Ahhhhh... Breathing in deep.

Just reveling in the geekiness guys.

I' d sign a petition to keep PJ's hack hands off The Hobbit as well.
Faramir was mutilated almost beyond recognition. I was so pissed walking out of the theater I had tears in my eyes.
Glorfindel was robbed.
Tom Bombadil *poofed* out of existence like a controversial off-topic thread on MDC.

Carry on fellow Tolkeinites. Carry on.

[JessicaS]

I like Tom Bombadil.

IMO, that part is hysterical and outlines how unprepared the hobbits are in the beginning. It also shows how much the hobbits grow throughout the books.


"We're going on an adventure!!"

They just barely make it out of the Shire and they get eaten by a tree!

[Trinitty]

LOL!!!!! That's SO true. I love Tom Bombadil! That moment is the book is so wonderful, and it really illustrates how naiive they were. I'm glad that it was left untouched in the films. PJ would have probably made Tom wrestle the Ring away from Frodo just to spice things up a bit.

In a way, I think that the stay with Tom and his pretty lady Goldberry blessed the journey of the Hobbits.

I think that Tom was a sort of God figure or a Beginning figure. He was there before the trees, before the water, before all of the peoples... and he's always singing, so I think he is the incarnate figure of the first music of the world, as described in the Silmarillion, at the moment of creation.

On the Frodo front: yes, in the very end, like the last possible moment, Frodo did fail.

HOWEVER, there is a BIG difference between the spasmodic bursts of paranoia he lashed out at Sam with towards the end, (like when he demanded the Ring back from him after Sam saved him from the orc tower,) and the perverted PJ writing where Frodo SIDED with Gollum in that stupid, low-minded, cheesey "Sam's eating all of the Lembas cakes" swindle and sending him HOME from Mordor. BIG difference. Tolkien NEVER would have written something so shallow and trite.

Yes, in the TRUE TALE, at the VERY END, Frodo's will collapsed under the profound pressure of Sauron and the One Ring. Fate saved Middle Earth by allowing for Gollum to still SEE Frodo even though he was wearing the One Ring (because Gollum was mostly in the shadow already) and launch into a final struggle for The Precious, where he bit Frodo's finger off and then slipped and FELL into the fire. In the book there was no corny "cliff hanger" moment either.... PJ even had to stick that bit of hackery in there at the very end.

Ah..... I'm enjoying the geekiness too. I scored 57% on the test last time, so, I'm at home as an Extreme Geek.

Trin.

[Storm Bride]

I loved the movies, as did dh. That doesn't mean they didn't drive me crazy on many levels. The entire character of Arwyn annoyed me beyond belief. I don't blame Liv Tyler - it was the part. It was mostly made up and sooooo irritating. Why introduce this tough warrior elf, then turn her into a tedious, languishing 14-year-old? She came across to me as an infatuated child, not a grown woman (elf) making a major conscious decision about her life. And, that whole "Arwyn Evenstar is dying" thing made me want to put my fist through the screen.

Faramir...others have said it better, but Faramir was butchered. I was SO disappointed, after Jackson did such a beautiful job with Boromir. Why he felt it necessary to make Faramir so lame is beyond me (I will say that Faramir looks much better in the extended version than he did in the theater - the extra background helps). The whole thing with Frodo and Sam going to Osgiliath and everything grated on my last nerve. Even dh, who liked the movies better than me overall, was appalled at that sequence.

Did anybody else half-expect Aragorn to duck into a convenient phone booth and come out with a big red "S" on his chest? Okay - he's tough. But, doing that whole "fall off the cliff, drift in the river, have weird experience with annoying girlfriend, ride back to Helm's Deep" thing was way, way, way over-the-top. I didn't mind Viggo...but, again, I didn't like Jackson's take on the character.

It annoys me beyond belief that something like Tom Bombadil got left out, while all the sickening Aragorn/Arwyn scenes were added. They were just so...wrong.

Frodo was just off. I don't think Elijah Wood was the right casting choice, in the first place (totally wrong look), and Frodo just didn't work for me at all. As others have said, the big scene where he sides with Gollum and sends Sam home is just not right. His character seemed like a cipher most of the time.

There were just so many things that didn't work.

I did like a lot of aspects, too. I wouldn't be horribly upset to hear that Jackson was doing The Hobbit - but I'm not upset that he isn't, either.

[Trinitty]

I was where you were for quite a while, Stormbride, because they are so visually wonderful and aspects of them are well done, (we own all of the extended versions) but then I kept watching them and thinking about them (read: obsessing over the issue) and I got fed-up.

I get really into stuff to an.... intense? obsessive? level sometimes though, so I kind of envy your ability to still like the films.

There is just too much rage there for me!

LOL.

I think it's because it's art that I allow myself to really care about it to this level, it's safe. It's the heavy things in the world, religion, politics, etc that are really strenuous and must be dealt with carefully.

Trin.

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by Trinitty

I think it's because it's art that I allow myself to really care about it to this level, it's safe. It's the heavy things in the world, religion, politics, etc that are really strenuous and must be dealt with carefully.

Exactly. That's precisely why I'm obsessed with the Harry Potter world.

[JessicaS]

Originally Posted by Trinitty

I was where you were for quite a while, Stormbride, because they are so visually wonderful and aspects of them are well done, (we own all of the extended versions) but then I kept watching them and thinking about them (read: obsessing over the issue) and I got fed-up.

I will watch the extended version and skip the scenes I dislike


One of my favorite parts (and most hilarious) is at Isengard

So Aragorn gets an army together to fight Saruman, he's got the rangers and King Theoden is there with the Rohirrim.

They are all "We are brave for fighting Saruman!" and they get all geared up and excited and go flying to Isengard with all their armor, weapons and horses and "We are brave!"

They are completely heading there like they are going to war.

And then Isengard is in shambles, the battle is completely over and Merry and Pippin are lounging around smoking pipes. They hadn't even seen Merry and Pippin since they had been taken by orcs and here they are..on vacation.

Aragorn, King Theoden and army are completely :

I don't think PJ got all the humor..or didn't use it as well as he could have. Yes Merry and Pippin are humorous but there are funny bits that aren't just how silly Merry and Pippin are.

[BinahYeteirah]

Originally Posted by journeymom

How are Frodo's actions at Mount Doom in the movie so different from the book? To my understanding, he really did 'fail', he couldn't drop the ring into the fires. And that's where Gollum's roll was vitally important. That's why Gandalf's admonition to Frodo about Gollum was important ("Can you decide who should live or die? Gollum has some part to play for good or evil", or words to that effect.) Aside from Sauron himself, Gollum had possessed the ring longest. Plot-wise, it's utterly significant that Gollum was the one who destroyed the ring, and it's important to note that even then, it was an accident. No one, not even tough, pure-of-heart Frodo, could withstand the corrosive power of the ring.

It does not diminish Frodo's incredible accomplishment, though. No one else could have carried the ring all the way to the cracks of Mount Doom, that's why Frodo was chosen to carry the ring. (Though it's not like Frodo made a fully informed decision when he chose to carry the ring. Fate had a big hand in the sequence of events in LotR.)

Yes, he did fail in a sense, yet as you wrote it was still an amazing accomplishment. No one could have done better, so there was nothing for Frodo to feel bad about. My husband, however, after only seeing the movies got the impression that he just really messed up and that he probably felt guilty about it. He thought that Sam would have been a better choice to take the Ring and with that extra stuff that was in the movie (the lembas cakes, etc.) that Frodo was truly "bad". My feeling from the books was that Frodo was specially chosen for the mission, even though Gandalf was reluctant to foist the quest on him, and that he more than the other hobbits and certainly more than the members of other peoples of Middle Earth was able to resist the power of the Ring.

[BinahYeteirah]

Originally Posted by Trinitty

Except Aragorn..... Vigo was terrible as Aragorn.

Yeah, I didn't like Vigo as Aragorn either.