Is vaccinaton ever a GOOD idea?

[Chug-a-Pug]

What do you think? Is it ever a good idea to vax? In war zones? 3rd world countries? I'm thinking in areas with poor sanitation and poor resources, maybe vaxing is worth the risk. But then again, it would depend on whether the vaccine was effective. Hmmm, just a thought

[mamakay]

Here's some stuff on vaccines in the two thirds world:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=623583

I do think vaccines are good sometimes, unnecessary sometimes, and bad sometimes.
It just depends on the population and the individual, the epidemiology of the disease, and the vaccine.
It's complex.

[mom0810]

Here's my take on it, which is only after researching it for a year.

I think vaccines have been a good thing for the public health in lots of ways. I think in the third world, they have saved TONS of lives. So in that way they are a good thing.

What I think is a BAD thing is vaccinating infants for things they don't want adults to get. Like HepB. Or CP. Or Pneumococcal strep. I think that the current view of looking at children at reservoirs for disease and vaccinating children to eliminate that disease in adults is a very BAD thing. I think that it's bad to look at vaccines as a moral responsibility we have to the rest of the world, which is why most peds want you to do the full schedule.

I think looking at kids as little soldiers in the war on disease is very bad.

But I don't think that vaccinating your OWN child for things that you do not want your OWN child to get is a bad thing. I think that there may come a time when I would like to vaccinate my child for things that I am concerned about HIM getting, not the kids down the street or the child halfway across the world.

So, I don't think they are good or bad in and of themselves. I think they have a purpose. But I think it is how they are USED that can be a bad thing. I think when they are used for the individual's own health then they can be good. But for the public health... bad, bad, bad.

[mamakay]

Yeah..."public health" is crazy when it comes to vaccines. They don't even feel like they're bound by the normal principals of evidence based medicine. A lot of the policies are based on "wishful thinking based medicine" when you look into the science.

I think of vaccines as "products"...they're "pharmaceuticals". They're not inherently "good" or "bad". They do whatever they do and it is what it is.
I'm pro-organic farming whenever it's possible, but I don't think all pesticides are all "good" or "bad" either. It just depends.

I think vaccinating the masses for chickenpox is unwise, but if an immunocompromised kid would have a higher chance of being one of those rare people to die from chickenpox, and he can get an attenuated version of the virus before getting the full strength one...then maybe it's not a bad idea.

It just depends.

[momto l&a]

I don't think they are a good thing.

The people who need them because living in less the ideal environments bodies really aren't up to cooping with the toxins injected into them.

It such a trade off IMO. here you can avoid xyz but in return you get ABC

I just think of all the $$$$$$$ wasted on vaccines that could be put to use providing safe water sources ect.

[lyttlewon]

Originally Posted by Chug-a-Pug

What do you think? Is it ever a good idea to vax? In war zones? 3rd world countries? I'm thinking in areas with poor sanitation and poor resources, maybe vaxing is worth the risk. But then again, it would depend on whether the vaccine was effective. Hmmm, just a thought

I think that some vaccines might be ok but I would be very concerned about using them until they start to tell the truth about contraindications, effectiveness, lasting power and find a way of determining who will have a reaction. If you look at some areas, like India, where they have been trying to combat Polio some of those kids have been vaccinated 10 times and STILL get polio. So I don't know if there is an easy answer to the third world country question. In some instances more kids die of starvation than VPD's in those countries so I almost think we are combating the wrong thing.

It is kind of like antibiotics, there is some good to them and some very very bad points. But we understand antibiotics way better than we used to. If we could be that honest about vaccines...

[spero]

Originally Posted by momto l&a

The people who need them because living in less the ideal environments bodies really aren't up to cooping with the toxins injected into them.

It such a trade off IMO. here you can avoid xyz but in return you get ABC

I just think of all the $$$$$$$ wasted on vaccines that could be put to use providing safe water sources ect.

:

[tylertyler]

vaccine scientific studies

http://www.thinktwice.com/studies.htm

graph shows vaccines did not reduce diseases
www.vaccinationdebate.com/web1.html

vaccines cause a immune suppression
http://www.mercola.com/article/vacci...uppression.htm

No vaccine is a good vaccine!

[tylertyler]

No pesticides are usefull its ALL toxic
No herbasides are usefull its ALL toxic

How can you say i'm doing organic farming and still feel the need to use pesticide??????????????????????????

I do organic gardening and have NEVER EVER used pesticides or herbacides.

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by tylertyler

No pesticides are usefull its ALL toxic
No herbasides are usefull its ALL toxic

How can you say i'm doing organic farming and still feel the need to use pesticide??????????????????????????

I do organic gardening and have NEVER EVER used pesticides or herbacides.

I don't really think farmers in Africa are necessarily able to do crop rotations in climates where only one or two things will even grow.

And if I were them, I'd take pesticides over no food at all, if it came down to it. Call me crazy.

[tylertyler]

Antibiotics
Destroy the immune system

the lasting chronic systemic effects from the use of antibiotics can cause years of ailments
allergies,sinus infm,chronic respt problems,mucous buildup,conjestion,skin problems,rash,chronic itch,bowel imbalance,CFS,YEAST/candida..................more.

:

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by tylertyler

Antibiotics
Destroy the immune system

the lasting chronic systemic effects from the use of antibiotics can cause years of ailments
allergies,sinus infm,chronic respt problems,mucous buildup,conjestion,skin problems,rash,chronic itch,bowel imbalance,CFS,YEAST/candida..................more.

:

Yeah, but if you've got bacterial blood poisoning, antibiotics will save your life.

When it comes to "chemicals", it all depends on the context.

[lyttlewon]

Originally Posted by tylertyler

Antibiotics
Destroy the immune system

the lasting chronic systemic effects from the use of antibiotics can cause years of ailments
allergies,sinus infm,chronic respt problems,mucous buildup,conjestion,skin problems,rash,chronic itch,bowel imbalance,CFS,YEAST/candida..................more.

:

Yes and the staph infection I had in my leg could have made me lose my leg . That is the point is sometimes depending on the circumstances bad things are a viable option. Each time I went under general anesthetic for ankle surgury it could have killed me but being able to walk and not losing my foot was worth the risk KWIM?

[tylertyler]

wrong
Pathogens are erradicated without antibiotics.There are alternative options.
Homeopathic Nosodes
Vit C in large doses
Goldenseal
grapefruitseed extract
garlic
coll silver
many many more............................

Myself and family have not used antibiotics for over a decade!
READ "BEYOND ANTIBIOTICS"......................................

TYLER:

[lyttlewon]

Originally Posted by tylertyler

wrong
Pathogens are erradicated without antibiotics.There are alternative options.
Homeopathic Nosodes
Vit C in large doses
Goldenseal
grapefruitseed extract
garlic
coll silver
many many more............................

Myself and family have not used antibiotics for over a decade!
READ "BEYOND ANTIBIOTICS"......................................

TYLER:

Good for your family. I had the staph infection for 3 years and I tried many things on your list to get rid of it. That is the point is it is up to every individual the risk they are willing to take with their own bodies. It is my body and I chose to use antibiotics.

[tylertyler]

You have tried Homeopathic NOSODES? Tell me what it is and how you got hold of some?
Personal story;
My husband had a severe chronic staph infection,for yrs.
via a trained classical homeopath a casetaking was done and the staph nosode was given. within a short while he was 100% cured it has never,ever come back,no adverse reactions.

If you take antibiotics for pathogens like strep or staph it only suppresses the problem. You will get a relapse. Read all the post by mothers saying "my kid has strep for yrs, MD gives antibiotics,why does it keep comming back?"
Same with staph!

TYLER:

[mamakay]

I think homeopathy is superstitious nonsense, as well...

[Plummeting]

Yeah, some of us don't believe in homeopathy. Well, let me rephrase that. Sometimes I think homeopathy works by causing a great placebo effect. I think lots of things work that way, which is fine with me. If someone thinks that having an energy worker bless a hankie is going to cure them of their cancer, then I am all for it. I will not tell them it won't work, because I think it might work. The power of the mind is a wonderful thing.

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by Plummeting

Yeah, some of us don't believe in homeopathy. Well, let me rephrase that. Sometimes I think homeopathy works by causing a great placebo effect. I think lots of things work that way, which is fine with me. If someone thinks that having an energy worker bless a hankie is going to cure them of their cancer, then I am all for it. I will not tell them it won't work, because I think it might work. The power of the mind is a wonderful thing.

But if they get bacterial meningitis, I'll suggest that they bring the the magic hankie to the hospital while they get IV antibiotics.

[JanB]

Yeah, if we'd tried treating my son's MRSA pneumonia with vitamin C and grapefruit seed extract, we would no longer have a son. And he doesn't have recurrent staph, either. The antibiotics killed the infection and it never came back. Making blanket pronouncements like, "You will get a relapse," or "Antibiotics destroy the immune system" just weakens your argument and makes you look uninformed, IMHO. My son had one of the most powerful antibiotics known to mankind and yet still amazingly is able to recover from colds just like any other kid, so clearly his immune system is in a non-destroyed state.

Partially because I had a child almost killed by antibiotic-resistant bacteria, I am a huge proponent of avoiding antibiotics whenever possible. I think that antibiotic overusage is a huge problem in our society. But there are some problems for which they are needed, and denying that is just silly. Again, IMHO.