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Oh wait, back to banging my head into a wall! *post 77*

post #1 of 112
Thread Starter 
(please don't offer any advice unless you read and understand the whole post. I use sarcasm a lot and I'm very upset right now)

Added: please read through all my posts if you are giving advice, some responses are making is kinda obvious that didn't happen.

...is what I really want to do, just to stop myself from strangling DD. She's got this thing for kicking holes in walls. We had fixed all the holes in our old house and talked to her, and she's been good for a couple months. Today, she got sent to her room, politely because DH and I were arguing (so she wouldn't be right there and it was a nice, "honey, can you go read in your room for a bit", kind of thing), but she wanted to play on the computer right then, so she was mad. There is now a 3 FOOT by 1 FOOT hole in her bedroom wall. I've HAD IT. She doesn't need counseling, she doesn't need a talking to. I'm to the point I think she needs a good butt kicking, but that wouldn't do any good either! I can't think of anything to get her to stop, so I punished her - no more WoW (world of warcraft) ever - period. What good will it do? Nothing of course! Because she doesn't care! ARRRGHHHHH. How do you get a child to care when they don't. The only thing that makes her do good is bribes - allowance, treats, etc. She doesn't care about her brothers, or DH or I, she doesn't care if we need her to help or just want her around (like to go on a walk or watch a movie, even if she gets to run the show), unless she's getting something out of it. She only spontaniously gives a hug if she wants something, she only picks up her room to get out of trouble, or get computer time, she only hugs her brothers if I'm watching and she thinks she'll get "points". I'm just sick of it. We haven't raised her this way. I know too many kids who are like this and I've deliberately tried to raise her not to be so selfish and uncaring, but I failed Its all her, her, her. What can I do, besides counseling, because we don't have the money or insurance anyway for it, even if I was willing to try.

Please read the disclaimer at the beginning of the post before you reply, if you do. And please understand that I posted such a disclaimer because I way too often see posts where it is obvious that the poster did not read the whole original post, not because I'm being a bitch.
post #2 of 112
just sending hugs...cause i have no answers...

peace...
post #3 of 112
Yeah, I don't have any answers but we're all human and we all have some sort of crisis to muddle through and learn from. (Ha! I wish I could skip my current growth opportunity!)
Think of the day when you're a Grandma & your dd is looking at you for wisdom and guidance....
yeah
post #4 of 112
Not an expert, just throwing out ideas........

Sounds like she's really angry about something (other than the surface issue). Give her something else more appropriate to hit.......a punching bag and boxing gloves, perhaps. She has aggression she needs to get rid of in a healthy way. Or put her in karate--where kicking is encouraged!

Give her materials to fix up her wall......... And tell her calmly to fix the hole. She'll get tired of fixing holes. (Even if the result isn't perfect............have her do it herself.)
post #5 of 112
If she was sick, would you find a way to afford medical care for her? I think this is the same thing. If she was my child, I would find a way to get counseling for her.

What avenues have you tried to access affordable counseling? Why do you say she doesn't need counseling?
post #6 of 112
Well mama, my dd sounds very similar to yours, the me,me,me thing just rings so true. My dd just doesn't seem to care. She doesn't kick massive! holes in walls tho has kicked holes in walls. She kicked the car today cos I was chatting to a mom that my other dd was staying to tea with, she was getting mightily annoyed cos she was waiting to get into town. Last night it was ' why don't you just go and kill yourself'. Well Im not gonna get upset with this stuff anymore. I think I do know a bit how you feel, my other 2dc are loving and caring tho prone to outbursts and the usual stuff just not to the extent eldest dd is, it's like she is pushing the limits all the time. She went ape this week cos I curtailed her pc time on school nights, she's only 'niceish' to me when she wants money etc, I'm totally sick of it but what can I do? I will try and talk with her but she doesn't want to talk to me. Y'know I'm starting to greet now thinking about it cos I feel such a failure and I keep hoping it will stop. I have not brought my dc up to be selfish and uncaring either and it's also affecting the other's . Yep they think they know it all and I also see other children of all ages behaving like this, I would not have got away with it when I was young tho I did kick a hole once, she probably gets it from me then I'm to blame for everything. So hugs cos it's very tiring dealing with this sorta thing, and depressing. I would probably give her the plaster and say fix it yourself, what to do about the anger tho? if you find out please let me know! I am gonna try( again) and talk to my dd cos I want her to know I love her and care very much but am not prepared to be treated like this, it's abuse really. Oh and I'm not sure about counselling being a method of sorting out extremely selfish, capitalist children( my dd is being just this) our society is encouraging this kind of behaviour on many levels, they are just acting out what they are being taught, this behaviour doesn't have to be learnt at home.
post #7 of 112
Also, the book Unconditional Parenting comes to mind. Have you read it?
post #8 of 112
Thread Starter 
I will check out the book, we just got our library cards today.

When we get health insurance, we may look into counseling, but both DH and I have a serious lack of trust for anyone who's gone to school to "help" people, so it'll take a while to find someone who both DH and I, and DD are comfortable with.

We've given her options for her anger, hitting her pillow, running around the block, talking, drawing, writing, just internalizing it by playing on the computer or reading, and nothing seems to work for long. She's been, for lack of a better word, difficult, her whole life. I know when she was little, seeing me beat up by her bio dad, affected her, we talk about him when she wants to, as much as I hate him, I confront it for her and keep it all very fair for her. I know she hates that we move so much, and I know she has a love/hate relationship with homeschooling. I know she dispises my dad (her grandpa, who lives with us) at times. We talk about all these things and more and I try to work out solutions that will work for her, not just me or her dad. I try to include her in things that are mature but not too grown up, like the color of the car we're going to buy, or what we are having for dinner. I try to give her freedom and playtime and "her" time, but she complains all she does is take care of her brothers. Well, she helps, but no more then any other family member should contribute in any other family! She hates that DS1 is developmentally delayed and can't do many of the things that other kids his age should be able to do. She hates that we're not rich, that we're not famous, that we're not the Swiss family Robinson and the Little House on the Prairie all wrapped into one.

Basically, I think she just hates being 11 and is handling it very, very poorly. I handled it bad as well, but I had parents who hated each other, literally, and I had to resort to stealing to eat many days because my mom had no food in the house after she'd spent my dad's disability on clothes, our house was condemably-filthy and blah, blah, blah. DH and I are affectionate with each other, we love the kids, we talk to them, we care and we show it. Life isn't perfect, but she's got it a damn sight better then I did. Of course, she doesn't care about that, and I can't make her. But shouldn't she be happier then I was? How can a parent try so hard and fail so miserably?

forthebest, I hope we both can figure this out
post #9 of 112
Thread Starter 
As for the hole, we rent so it has to be done perfectly. I'm not losing my deposits over this! But she helps clean up the huge mess after the holes are patched, which is almost as big of a job.
post #10 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthea™ View Post
I will check out the book, we just got our library cards today.



We've given her options for her anger, hitting her pillow, running around the block, talking, drawing, writing, just internalizing it by playing on the computer or reading, and nothing seems to work for long.
I'm glad you're going to check out the book. It's difficult to always be an "unconditional parent" but I think it's a good goal to reach for.

Again, perhaps consider getting a punching bag and boxing gloves, hanging it in the basement or garage, and letting her go at it. That has to feel so much more "rewarding" than hitting a pillow. You can really feel the "umph" of a punching bag, which is probably the satisfaction she is getting from kicking the wall.
post #11 of 112
Is she about to start her period?

My second dd was a NIGHTMARE, a real Dr. Jekyll/Madame Hyde, for about a year before she started, and then when she started, she was a whole 'nother (nicer) girl. That and a huge boost of calcium in her diet calmed her right down.
Just a thought, but her behavior may be hormonal.
post #12 of 112
She sounds like she may have some post traumatic stress symptoms--you mention that she saw you beat up. That could be horribly traumatic to a child, and it may take years to materialize. Add to it her frustrations and mourning a special needs sibling (and I fully believe that siblings grieve the loss of their "sibling dreams" when the special needs mean that the sibling won't be that sibling they had imagined). Then moving a lot, as you mention, could shake any sense of stability that she may have, especially if she has some unresolved trauma in her life.

It does sound like she needs to talk to someone...I promise, we're not all bad (I'm one who went to school to "help" people--I have my master's in counseling and am in the process of my PhD). There is someone out there who will click with you and your child... :

I don't really have much advice, because I don't really know her. But I think I'd look into getting her help for some trauma issues. Being a teenager is tough enough, but having something feel wrong and not knowing how to express it can make things worse.... :

Peace mama...it sounds like you're in a tough place right now--I hope everything works out soon...
post #13 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthea™ View Post
When we get health insurance, we may look into counseling, but both DH and I have a serious lack of trust for anyone who's gone to school to "help" people, so it'll take a while to find someone who both DH and I, and DD are comfortable with.
I can understand the aversion to counseling/therapy, as that's how I approached it for a long time. However, I do think that counseling can be incredibly, incredibly helpful and is something to consider if/when your means allow. I saw a therapist for many of my tween/teen years and am seeing one now. I find, personally, that I'm much calmer and more balanced after therapy. As far as the "going to school to help people thing," I think that going through all the time, energy, and expense of getting the degrees and certifications required to become a counselor of any kind will weed out people who are doing it for the wrong reasons and leave the people who really do want to help people. (: Sorry for the appallingly long sentence...)

If you're truly averse to counseling and/or your means don't allow for it, I'd try and get your dd involved in a positive activity outside the home--a sports team, art class, volunteer work, etc. Especially sports--the endorphin high from exercise is like natural Prozac--it certainly won't solve your problems overnight, but it will certainly help. Anything, though, that will allow her some time away from the family and the chance to begin refining her own identity will probably help her self-esteem and thusly her behavior.

Good luck!
post #14 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by A&A View Post
I'm glad you're going to check out the book. It's difficult to always be an "unconditional parent" but I think it's a good goal to reach for.

Again, perhaps consider getting a punching bag and boxing gloves, hanging it in the basement or garage, and letting her go at it. That has to feel so much more "rewarding" than hitting a pillow. You can really feel the "umph" of a punching bag, which is probably the satisfaction she is getting from kicking the wall.
I have to agree with that. When I feel the need to hit something, a pillow just does not do it, it's way too soft and gives no satisfaction in hitting. Definitely look into something like a punching bag that would take her violent energy better.
Not that that's a permanent solution by any means, just a more non-destructive way that she can let out her anger until you can find a counsellor you're all comfortable with.
Big to all of you.
post #15 of 112
I COMPLETELY understand that this isn't an isolated incident, and that you were distracted etc. BUT Why couldn't you and your husband gone away from the computer to argue? It seems silly that she would have to leave YOU when YOU are the ones needing to be alone. Seems like she should have been able to use the computer.

Why does she despise her grandpa so much? That kind of leaped out at me too.
post #16 of 112
good luck!! My dd is in counselling finally (she's 16) For myself yoga does amazing things, would she like yoga? I've got not good answers but just try to remember how much you love her and give yourself some relief w/ a break to do what you enjoy.
post #17 of 112
Wow, Synthea, I found 11 to be hard. But the kicking holes in walls, esp. when you're renting, I bet that really stresses you out. And she knows it, right? She's definitely acting something out. I'm in the middle of reading Raising your Spirited Child and I'm finding it's got tons of information on working with your child's and your temperament in mind. Positive Discipline may also have some tools you can use. The latter chapters of Hold On to Your Kids might also be useful - she needs to be oriented to you, otherwise she has no reason to listen to you.

I still would recommend counseling, ASAP. With your family history, I think this is something where you should reach out for help. Are you associated through a school or other organization that might offer such services? Or are you near a college that might offer such services at a discount? When I was a student (and single mom) I went through a counseling service on campus that was really helpful - the counselor just acted as a sounding board and asked me questions that I didn't think to ask myself. I would avoid "psychoanalysis", but regular old counseling should be ok. And if you can find an Adlerian psychologist or even a local Adlerian association - they may help you figure out why your daughter is doing this and help you find ways to fix it.
post #18 of 112
I am a teenager myself, 16 years old, and I've done the whole "my parents dont get me, I am going to throw the whole tantrum thing around"
Many teens go through what it would seem like they don't care about anybody but you also have to understand that we feel like everyone is out to get us. KWIM ? Your daughter seems that shes reaching out but doesn't know how to grasp on how to get your attention. When I was asked to do something, or go somewhere, and I really just wanted to be along I acted out. I always felt being alone would help clear my mind. But I also knew after I had my little "fits" I wanted my mom or dad to come in my room and try to talk to me even if I was yelling back at them I wanted them to see how much I needed them at that time. Maybe she just wants some sort of attention and love from you. Without the whole "I Love you" and hugs ordeal. Not counciling but maybe do a mother/daughter day do something fun and talk. Once a week even. It could possibly help and when she has her fits dont bang your head in a wall LOL. just let her go on with her fit and then the next mother/daughter day you can ask her if theres something that she needs to talk about instead of asking her while shes already in the heat of being angry.

sorry for the long post but ive had my emotional and physical breakdowns like your daughters before.

<33 Italy
post #19 of 112
I have to agree with amagicalwishxoxo....

My son is now 17 and our house still bears the trauma, holes in walls, doors, in various states of repair, and he is now the most lovely person- not just me who thinks so. This stage shall pass, just like the toddler years did. But where I agree with the PP is, try to find some way of seeing the positive in your child. Sometimes your child needs an affirmation of your love even when you most feel like pushing them away. Maybe not the hugs and I love you ordeal....but some way of sharing some postiive time. Friends- yours- can help here...they can help you see the good things about your child, and the good things about you as a mother. Self esteem can take the biggest bashing here.

What helped me was my friends supporting me and telling me I was doing a good job, and that, yes, it was very very hard.

It is a very hard space to be in, for you both. Hang in there!
post #20 of 112
I keep thinking about you and your daughter, and I just want to hug you both.

I happened across this statistic in a local paper today:

"Experts say 70 percent of children who grow up in violent homes will end up in violent adult relationships."

(You can read the whole article at http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,660203879,00.html)

and it made me realize that your dd really needs professional help (in addition to that punching bag!) As another poster mentioned, please see your dd as sick and in need of help to get whole again.
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