Early GD & Preparing for Toddlerhood...questions!

[devster4fun]

Ok, it was hard to think of an appropriate title for this thread. I would like to hear anyone's thoughts about early GD and setting the stage for a smooth Toddlerhood experience.

Quick background, I have an 11 month old DD who is sweet, good natured, expressive & flexible. We visited her cousins this weekend who have a 3 year old and a new 6 month old. I work very part-time and my Mom lives across the street to babysit, so DD has very little interaction with other children or even other adults. (DH, Mom, close friends and neighbors)

I was apprehensive about this past weekend, wondering how DD would react to the new situation, house, being around so many new people and other children. Long story short (I'm trying), she was awesome. Nothing phased her, didn't fuss or cry once and was totally enthralled with everything.

NOW, the issue. Her 3 year old cousin was there and was having a very tough time. Tantrums about everything, crying and screaming, yelling NO to Mom and Dad etc...I have NO experience around children and was an only child, so I assumed this was commonplace for 3 yr olds. I observed the mom using stickers, charts, candy, lots of choices etc..to try and deal with the behavior. Nothing seemed to help!

Is there any way to set the stage now, for an easier time in the future? I'm interested in reading books on Toddlers and tantrums, GD etc.
I'm ready to order some books on the Toddler topic and have a few in mind already. I'm intrigued with the concepts of GD, natural consequences etc...but I'm new to all of this.

The basics we've decided on for sure; no spanking (neither one of us was) No yelling. I just don't know how to set limits and handle tantrums.

Any thoughts? Your experiences? I'm a blank slate and really interested in learning as much as possible. Thanks so much for your time.

[^guest^]

Your child sounds like a parent's dream (or at least mine. I have an intense, spirited 2yo girl..who has been that way since she came out of the womb!)

I had a problem figuring out the whole limits thing too, at first. The only thing that's worked for me is setting firm limits about things than are/can be dangerous. The obvious stuff. Arbitrary rules never quite jived with my logic (eat all your food, bed time is precisely 8pm regardless of whether or not they are tired, no touching something that is not specifically "yours"...). They just seemed to create more struggles and more frustration on my part. So, provided she's not in danger of being hurt, or hurting someone else, she can do as she pleases. For the most part, it's worked quite well. Since she's a spirited kid, she has to be told ENDLESSLY when something is off limits (spirited kids really do test the limits more than your average kid), but this might not be a problem for you.

Routines. Routines routines routines. I SUCKED at the routine thing when DD was born. I heard the word and cringed. I hated routine...it was so..BORING! But when just rolling with whatever was happening started driving me insane, I looked to the routine to save me. It's not like, 9am this happens, 10am this happens. Timewise it's flexible, but the same activities (getting up, making breakfast, taking a shower, doing laundry, cleaning, naptime) all happen in a specific order than really seems to comfort her.

Now, frankly I didn't like a lot of advice given in "The Happiest Toddler On the Block" (advocating isolated timeouts and the like) but it does have some good tips on talking to a frustrated toddler. When she's really upset (she does have her dramatic moments where she fake cries, but this happens less often now), I bend down to her level and try to make an emotional contact with her. Use short phrases (I hated how they tell you to talk to a toddler in HTotB, could never do it and it actually seemed to make her ANGRIER with me!) with some emotional inflection. Letting her know that I understand she's upset is kinda key to getting her attention during a tantrum. I don't talk down to her, I just keep my sentences short. Like if she falls (she usually doesn't cry from pain, it seems more like she gets embarressed or frustrated that she is incapable of doing something) I'll bend down, get her eye contact, hug her, and say, "Oh ouch! Ow! Dang that looks like it hurts!". If it's an "I want something I can't have" tantrum, well that's a little trickier.

Example. She can only color at the table (as we are currently living in my MIL's house and she doesn't want crayon on her walls/furniture/cats/food, perfectly understandable). Sometimes she'll try to take a crayon with her when she says she's all done coloring. We've instituted the "can I trade you?" Technique since she was very young. She'll usually trade whatever contraban she has for a different, well selected toy, activity, piece of fruit, whatever. If she doesn't, then I remind her of the rule, "Colors must stay at the table. Would you like to go back to the table and color?" If she says no, and won't give a mutually agreeable solution (kids can come up with all sorts of solutions you might not have thought of if you give them a chance), then I will calmly, gently pick her up and put her back at the table while reminding her of the rule. She'll either a) go back to coloring b) put the crayon down and ask to get out of her high chair or c) want up while still holding the crayong. I hate hate HATE physically *taking* something away from her. It incites a riot. So I have to be creative in thinking of ways to have her GIVE UP whatever it is she shouldn't have. However, if option C happens, I'm forced to take it away while explaining the rule again. This usually follows with a short lived tantrum. I tell her "I understand you want to color on the walls, but Grandma doesn't want colors on her walls. How about we go do X instead?" With some hugs and comfort and a new, more fun activity, the tears dry up within a minute or two.

Woo that was long winded. But I know where you're coming from. When I was in your place, a lot of people gave me a lot of good ideas but no good ways to put it into practice with my own kid. Hopefully this big long brain fart of a post can give you some tips and ways to implement them.

Edit: I still haven't found anything that works for public, too much stimulus tantrums. The only thing that works is removing her to a quiet, serene place (like the car...she LOVES LOVES LOVES the car, but any place devoid of loud sounds, bright colors, and excess people works). Sometimes you just have to accept that a tantrum is a very real possibility, plan for it, do whatever you need to do as fast as possible, and be prepared to haul a screaming toddler out of Meijers because she wants to GO HOME NOW!

[mamagoose]

Hi, I'm starting to try to figure this out, too, though my ds is almost 2. Like you, I want to practice gentle discipline and respond to him in a way that's respectful to him. Toward that end, I'm reading Alfie Kohn's Unconditional Parenting right now, and I love it. There are other threads re: this book on this form -- you might want to do a search to check them out. It's highlighted for me that while things like time-outs and rewards (e.g., stickers, etc.) might work in the very short term to get your child to stop doing something, these strategies focus only on the behavior, not on feelings/thoughts the child has that might lead to the behavior, and these tactics can subtley or not-so-subtley send the message to the child that he/she is loved only when they behave the way we want them to. The author does a far better job of explaining it that I am here. It's just something you might want to check out.

[devster4fun]

Originally Posted by Neoma

Routines. Routines routines routines. I SUCKED at the routine thing when DD was born. I heard the word and cringed. I hated routine...it was so..BORING! But when just rolling with whatever was happening started driving me insane, I looked to the routine to save me. It's not like, 9am this happens, 10am this happens. Timewise it's flexible, but the same activities (getting up, making breakfast, taking a shower, doing laundry, cleaning, naptime) all happen in a specific order than really seems to comfort her.

Now, frankly I didn't like a lot of advice given in "The Happiest Toddler On the Block" (advocating isolated timeouts and the like) but it does have some good tips on talking to a frustrated toddler. When she's really upset (she does have her dramatic moments where she fake cries, but this happens less often now), I bend down to her level and try to make an emotional contact with her. Use short phrases (I hated how they tell you to talk to a toddler in HTotB, could never do it and it actually seemed to make her ANGRIER with me!) with some emotional inflection. Letting her know that I understand she's upset is kinda key to getting her attention during a tantrum. I don't talk down to her, I just keep my sentences short. Like if she falls (she usually doesn't cry from pain, it seems more like she gets embarressed or frustrated that she is incapable of doing something) I'll bend down, get her eye contact, hug her, and say, "Oh ouch! Ow! Dang that looks like it hurts!". If it's an "I want something I can't have" tantrum, well that's a little trickier.

Thank you for your reply...I agree with the routines issue. I am a schedule person, list-making, organized etc...My DH is the exact opposite. Hopefully, that will provide a good contrast. I have noticed she flourishes with a predictable routine. Like you said, the times vary, but the activities are very similar. She can get bored though....and likes a change of scenery and new stimulation.

AND, I was very disappointed with Happiest Toddler. We found some of the basic premises of Happiest Baby to be absolute lifesavers when she was 0-6 months. (The swaddling, rocking, patting etc...) But, the Toddler book seems like nonsense to me.

Mamagoose:
I'm going to order Unconditional Parenting and the Mothering book tonight! I'm reading the Problem with Rewards too. It makes so much sense to me. I could already see the problem this weekend with stickers and candy...the 3 yr old didn't want to do anything, UNLESS he was getting a prize.

And, I've seen some threads about what is the reason for the tantrum. I even asked my SIL, do you think he's jealous of the new baby. She denied it up and down, but never tries to get to the heart of the issue. Why is he upset/defiant/frustrated??

[Diane B]

Originally Posted by devster4fun

Ok, it was hard to think of an appropriate title for this thread. I would like to hear anyone's thoughts about early GD and setting the stage for a smooth Toddlerhood experience.

Quick background, I have an 11 month old DD who is sweet, good natured, expressive & flexible. We visited her cousins this weekend who have a 3 year old and a new 6 month old. I work very part-time and my Mom lives across the street to babysit, so DD has very little interaction with other children or even other adults. (DH, Mom, close friends and neighbors)

I was apprehensive about this past weekend, wondering how DD would react to the new situation, house, being around so many new people and other children. Long story short (I'm trying), she was awesome. Nothing phased her, didn't fuss or cry once and was totally enthralled with everything.

NOW, the issue. Her 3 year old cousin was there and was having a very tough time. Tantrums about everything, crying and screaming, yelling NO to Mom and Dad etc...I have NO experience around children and was an only child, so I assumed this was commonplace for 3 yr olds. I observed the mom using stickers, charts, candy, lots of choices etc..to try and deal with the behavior. Nothing seemed to help!

Is there any way to set the stage now, for an easier time in the future? I'm interested in reading books on Toddlers and tantrums, GD etc.
I'm ready to order some books on the Toddler topic and have a few in mind already. I'm intrigued with the concepts of GD, natural consequences etc...but I'm new to all of this.

The basics we've decided on for sure; no spanking (neither one of us was) No yelling. I just don't know how to set limits and handle tantrums.

Any thoughts? Your experiences? I'm a blank slate and really interested in learning as much as possible. Thanks so much for your time.

We had a sweet, "easy" baby too - and she also became a two year old and now a three year old, so we've had our share of emotional drama, tantrums, etc. But I mostly feel really good about how we are moving through these years. If I had to boil it down to the most helpful things, I would say:

1. NO POWER STRUGGLES. If we can let it go, we do. If it's a health or safety thing (teeth brushing, getting in the car seat), we give her a chance to cooperate, and if she's not able, we calmly and quickly assist her. No endless negotiating, no battles over unimportant matters. We try to say "yes" a lot.

2. CONSISTENCY. We keep a routine, and we try to create an environment where she knows what to expect (i.e. we sit at the dinner table, and no one throws their food. We always read 3 books before bed - not 2, not 4.) I have found that the routine can help move us through a lot of rough spots.


3. FUN. I'm not a big parenting book reader, but "Playful Parenting" has been so helpful to our family. A little humor goes so far with a toddler.

4. RESPECT. We respect our daughter's feelings, her intelligence, her "childness". We model respect for each other, our friends, the cat, the neighbors. We apologize to her when we lose our tempers or make a mistake.

Hope this helps - don't let anyone tell you that toddlerhood is not wonderful.

[Valian]

I have a 12 mo and we wanted to start on some early reading too. Here's what Dh and I have read so far and what we'd reccomend.

1. Dh just finished and I'm 1/2 way through Unconditional Parenting (Kohn).
Start with this book! It honestly challenged us to think about parenting in different ways and it also gave us a new lens for evaluating all other parenting books. So, I vote starting here because either you'll love it or not, but either way your feelings about consequences/punishment will alter how you approach any other books.

2. Parent Effectiveness Training (Gordon)--we're both in the early stages of this book and I like that it focuses again on shaping our mindset and approach to our children's behavior rather than just ways to stop normal but otherwise annoying behavior.

3. How to behave so your kids will too. (Author?). Yuck! We didn't like this book at all, especailly after reading UP by Kohn. Dh skimmed it a little more last night and then it went straight back to the library. Very behaviorist--punishment/consequences oriented.

4. Playful Parenting. An interesting read, but it seemed aimed at parents with older kids. Lots of it didn't seem appropriate for interactions with a very young (pre-verbal) toddler.

5. Happiest ToddlerOTB. Read this one awhile ago. We both liked the concrete examples for talking with toddlers (re: identifying their feelings, matching their level of emotion) but haven't had opportunities to use it. If nothing else, it gave good background on toddler stages of emotional development for setting our expectations.

6. Discipline Book (Sears). An easy read and we liked it at the time (a few months ago) but not very memorable. I know some people object to this book because although he advocates against spaking, he does discuss how to minimize the negative effects of spanking rather than just saying its wrong. period. and moving on. I'm not sure, after reading UP, if we'll like it any more.

7. Parenting your nursing toddler. (Author?) This book had some good guidence for gentle parenting and I liked how it took the nursing relationship into account.

Next up: Adventures in Gentle Discipline, published by LLL I believe.

[TripMom]

Originally Posted by devster4fun

Ok, it was hard to think of an appropriate title for this thread. I would like to hear anyone's thoughts about early GD and setting the stage for a smooth Toddlerhood experience.

"smooth" and "toddlerhood" are contradictory terms. In fact - I'd be more worried if your DD toddlerhood was smooth than if you were mothering the 3 year old you describe in your post! A lot actually - as the 3 year old sounded quite age appropriate.

Toddlers are all about exploring and learning and being overwhelmed by their emotions and having absolutely ZERO neurological impulse control. The biggest tools in your GD parental toolbox for toddlerhood are #1 patience and #2 redirection. There are so many good books out there -- I am sure you'll get some great recs.

[TripMom]

Originally Posted by Diane B

We had a sweet, "easy" baby too - and she also became a two year old and now a three year old, so we've had our share of emotional drama, tantrums, etc. But I mostly feel really good about how we are moving through these years. If I had to boil it down to the most helpful things, I would say:

1. NO POWER STRUGGLES. If we can let it go, we do. If it's a health or safety thing (teeth brushing, getting in the car seat), we give her a chance to cooperate, and if she's not able, we calmly and quickly assist her. No endless negotiating, no battles over unimportant matters. We try to say "yes" a lot.

2. CONSISTENCY. We keep a routine, and we try to create an environment where she knows what to expect (i.e. we sit at the dinner table, and no one throws their food. We always read 3 books before bed - not 2, not 4.) I have found that the routine can help move us through a lot of rough spots.


3. FUN. I'm not a big parenting book reader, but "Playful Parenting" has been so helpful to our family. A little humor goes so far with a toddler.

4. RESPECT. We respect our daughter's feelings, her intelligence, her "childness". We model respect for each other, our friends, the cat, the neighbors. We apologize to her when we lose our tempers or make a mistake.

Hope this helps - don't let anyone tell you that toddlerhood is not wonderful.

well said!

[abac]

I have to agree with pretty much everything Diane said, (although consistnecy isn't important for us.) The only thing I would add from my experience is that I always make sure I listen to ds. It is often so hard for toddlers to make themselves understood and we owe it to them to put the same effort into listening to them and understanding them.

I especially agree with the part about toddlerhood being wonderful!!!

[dantesmama]

I have a 17.5mo who was also an "easy" baby, and luckily he's still a pretty calm, easygoing toddler. Like the pps, I recommend Unconditional Parenting. I just read it this past month and it made a very strong impression on me. Like Diane said, I also think that a major thing with toddlers is being as lenient as possible. Obviously there are limits to this, but so frequently I find myself about to tell ds "no" or make him do something - and then I think about it and realize it's not such a big deal after all. Tantrums have become few and far between since I began consciously thinking this way.

[DevaMajka]

The most helpful book for the toddler age, imo, is Becoming The Parent You Want To Be.
I loved Unconditional Parenting and The Continuum Concept, and Natural Child, and Loving Your Child Is Not Enough (similar to PET), but none of them compare to BTP when it comes to simple concrete advice on how to discipline a 2yo (actually, up to 5yo). lol. It is respectful, non-punitive, and quite effective (not effective in the sense of "dc will do as I say" but effective in the sense that we can handle most situations with cooperativeness and little stress).

[nd_deadhead]

One thing that helped me was to rename "the Terrible Twos" the Age of Frustration. A toddler wants to express herself, and has a LOT to say, but people often don't understand. She wants to run with the big kids, but she doesn't have the gross motor strength. She wants to do what others do, but doesn't have the fine motor control. Who wouldn't be frustrated??

Remember that toddlers don't really understand what "don't" means. If you say "Don't jump on the bed", the last thing they hear is "jump on the bed", and they can't think of an alternative. Positive directions, like "feet on the floor", "Sit on your bottom", "That's just to look at", etc are much more likely to work.

Make sure your expectations are realistic for the age, time of day, etc. I hungry or tired kid is more likely to be a cranky kid!

Good luck!

[devster4fun]

Originally Posted by Diane B

1. NO POWER STRUGGLES. If we can let it go, we do. If it's a health or safety thing (teeth brushing, getting in the car seat), we give her a chance to cooperate, and if she's not able, we calmly and quickly assist her. No endless negotiating, no battles over unimportant matters. We try to say "yes" a lot.

Hope this helps - don't let anyone tell you that toddlerhood is not wonderful.

I like the "say yes" idea. We're really looking forward to the next few years!! She's 11 months...and I can honestly admit, I'm just not a "baby" person. We've always been ambivalent about having kids at all and we are just going to have one. The last 6 weeks or so have been SO much fun. She's showing her personality and really interacting and....CUTE!

Originally Posted by dantesmama

Like the pps, I recommend Unconditional Parenting. I just read it this past month and it made a very strong impression on me.

I just received my copy in the mail today .

Also, has anyone read the Mothering Magazines Guide to Parenting? I ordered this book too, but it hasn't been delivered yet.

[mezzaluna]

you're getting some great ideas in this thread! i want to recommend a book that i would actually say is a wonderful first place to turn - Adventures in Gentle Discipline it's a fairly new book, put out by LLL. tons of practical ideas from moms who have been there done that, and who acknowledge not being perfect all the time! but the philosophy is rock solid GD.

my toddler tip i haven't seen mentioned yet is to involve them in an activity that gives them some control rather than shutting them out of an undesired activity altogether. around 13 or 14 months DS started in with behaviors that were annoying us, like pushing buttons on the dishwasher, going around shutting any open doors, and shoving tons of toilet paper into the toilet. instead of setting limits that he couldn't do any of those things, we tried to find a positive way he could do those things, or something very similar - we designated him to always be the one to shut the dishwasher and press the on button *when* we needed to start dishes. we started asking him to shut doors for us *when* we needed them shut. we started giving him one token piece of toilet paper to put in the toilet whenever he or one of us went to the toilet. over a year later and he still loves being our little helper with an assigned task for things like this!

i guess this involves both the concepts of saying "yes" and of redirection! i love that it didn't have to involve punishment, and it didn't have to involve restricting his access to the problem areas - after reading continuum concept i was very impressed with the idea that children can learn a lot from socialization, basically, rather than punishment or reward. they are such social creatures - soaking up what it means to be a human... what people do... that they respond well to consistant expectations - and you can either expect that they'll be helpful and respectful, or you can expect that they won't be, and either way they are listening and taking it all in... and i'd much rather they get the positive message!

[EnviroBecca]

My son is 27 months, and my best advice about tantrums is NOT to think of them as meaning that you have done something wrong. Sometimes even the most easygoing toddler is going to be frustrated, and tantrums are a toddler's main way of expressing frustration. Don't think in terms of preventing or ending tantrums; think about avoiding unnecessary frustration and helping your child cope with frustrated feelings when they do happen.

Adventures in Gentle Discipline has a whole special section on strategies for tantrums. I have found that most of those ideas work very well sometimes, and none of them works all the time! Tantrums are very challenging.

But as for a smooth toddlerhood overall, the time between tantrums is full of learning new skills...some of which gradually come to be employed by the toddler to avoid tantrums. For example, as my son learns more and more speech skills, he is better able to get what he wants in the first place before he gets frustrated about not having it. As he practices new physical skills, he increases the likelihood that he's going to be able to do the things he envisions. The trick for us is to notice his new skills and let him use them instead of barring him from things because he had trouble with them a few weeks or months ago.

[georgia]

Also, has anyone read the Mothering Magazines Guide to Parenting?

Do you mean MM's Natural Family Living Guide?? If so, it's one of my all-time favorites. You're going to love it