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SO and I cannot find common ground...  

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
on how to discipline the children. He wants to spank, slap hands, yell, and at times he uses shaming (to ds, dd is a little young to totally get shaming).

I have been working so hard to be GD, I try not to yell, I try not to hit, I walk away, I have read books, ds and me are in therapy, etc....I have been mostly successful. I do better every day.

DS (7 yrs) is a handful, if you look at previous posts it will give more detail, suffice it to say he is special needs, and has a lot of issues outside his control and therefore is mega-spirited (um, and honery )

DD(15 months) is really very smart, she is all over the place, climbing everything, loves to do something she *knows* she shouldn't be and watches our faces to see what we will do. She has never been spanked and I would like to keep it that way.

The reason for this post is that last night I went to the store and dd stayed home w/ her daddy. When I came home he says, dd got her hand smacked while you were gone...I said, what??? why??? is she okay??? I was so angry and sad about it (I am already having a rough time w/ SO)...he said, she wouldn't leave the water cooler alone and flooded the floor again. She had done the same darn thing on Sat. evening and slipped in the water and really bonked her head good (btw...she is just fine). I told SO that I don't want him to hit our daughter, ever. She won't understand it. He said he is trying to make her remember what not to do. I said, well, she will remember that daddy causes her pain...she prolly won't remember what she wasn't supposed to do, and she will be scared of you. He said BS...that physical punishment works, worked for him, etc...to which I said BS.

How do we get on the same page with this stuff? I am going to explain how children who's hands are smacked tend not to explore as much because exploration (not specifically the water cooler, outlets, etc) causes pain.

It's hard for me to make him 'get it'...because he and I aren't doing so great lately. I find that he doesn't watch dd as closely as I do, and then gets pissed because she does something she shouldn't. He rarely tries redirection and I have told and shown him how to redirect her over and over. Also, he won't get rid of some of the crap he owns to help make the house safer for a little child to explore without getting into too much trouble. Not that the house is a deathtrap, there are just a lot of things to try and keep her out of....you cannot go sit on the back porch for 20 minutes and than be surprised that dd is into something or has made some sort of mess....

I am at the end of my rope here :, ds has been hard to manage, dd is adventerous and curious beyond my(and SO) ability to keep her safe without constant supervision, and SO and I just don't agree about GD, he thinks I am a hippy. I just want my kids to grow up better adn healthier than we did....what do I do????:
post #2 of 13
s to you mama, I guess things are tough all over.

Here is a snipped from Dr. Sears that you could show to your SO:

Quote:
SLAPPING HANDS
How tempting it is to slap those daring little hands! Many parents do it without thinking, but consider the consequences. Maria Montessori, one of the earliest opponents of slapping children's hands, believed that children's hands are tools for exploring, an extension of the child's natural curiosity. Slapping them sends a powerful negative message. Sensitive parents we have interviewed all agree that the hands should be off-limits for physical punishment. Research supports this idea. Psychologists studied a group of sixteen fourteen-month-olds playing with their mothers. When one group of toddlers tried to grab a forbidden object, they received a slap on the hand; the other group of toddlers did not receive physical punishment. In follow-up studies of these children seven months later, the punished babies were found to be less skilled at exploring their environment. Better to separate the child from the object or supervise his exploration and leave little hands unhurt.
Here is the link for the full article: http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/t062100.asp

I hope it gets better for you all,
Tracy
post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wugmama View Post
s to you mama, I guess things are tough all over.

Here is a snipped from Dr. Sears that you could show to your SO:



Here is the link for the full article: http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/t062100.asp

I hope it gets better for you all,
Tracy

Thanks, I was going to have to try to find that article later...I hope SO doesn;t think Dr. Sears is a hippy as well....
post #4 of 13
Sounds like a very tough situation. Will your SO read about GD?

All the articles here are great:
http://www.connectionparenting.com/p...dex.html#index

But especially:
Spanking Undermines Discipline - Loving Alternatives -
by Pam Leo
http://www.connectionparenting.com/p.../spanking.html

"It's not nice to hit people; children are people."
- Pam Leo
post #5 of 13
Is it possible that he's hurting her to get back at you? It somewhat sounds like it from your post, and how he described how he hurt her while you were gone. Does it make you nervous?

If so, I would either insist on counseling or the "natural consequence" of ending the relationship. That's just me. I would find that sort of behavior frightening and in immediate need of address. It sounds like there are many problems, and fighting between adult family members can contribute heavily to childrens' misbehavior, as they're picking up on all the anger.

In short, I don't think an article is going to cut it, because he won't read it from an unbiased perspective. Maybe better to see a counselor or mediator in order to get to the deeper stuff?
post #6 of 13
the hard part of ending the relationship is that if custody is shared, he'll have his own way with discipline, with no mom around to mediate, which could make things worse for the kids? Perhaps a temporary separation with famil counselling being the goal is doable? What a sad situation
post #7 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama View Post
Is it possible that he's hurting her to get back at you? It somewhat sounds like it from your post, and how he described how he hurt her while you were gone. Does it make you nervous?

If so, I would either insist on counseling or the "natural consequence" of ending the relationship. That's just me. I would find that sort of behavior frightening and in immediate need of address. It sounds like there are many problems, and fighting between adult family members can contribute heavily to childrens' misbehavior, as they're picking up on all the anger.

In short, I don't think an article is going to cut it, because he won't read it from an unbiased perspective. Maybe better to see a counselor or mediator in order to get to the deeper stuff?
Oh no, SO LOVES dd to pieces, and he wouldn't hurt her to hurt me...he just doesn't know any other way. His father was abusive (to him and was nice to his little brother) and his parents split when he was 15ish. He doesn't know really anything about gd and needs to learn and accept it. I will not have him spanking or hitting the children. He will practice this to the best of his ability and do better every day.

If I thought for a minute that he hurt dd to hurt me, um, it would be SOOOOO over. My children aren't pawns. anyway, nak now....
post #8 of 13
Typically there are two fronts as far as convincing someone to your GD point of view. Depending on your SO, you should choose one and hit it hard. With most men I know
Logic and results are the easier sell.

1) Emotional plea - I feel like it is wrong to inflict shame or pain on our children. I think it was wrong that it was done to you, and I want something better for our kids.

2) Logical plea - How long did pyhsical and shame based parenting work on you? Probably untill you were old enough to ignore or retalliate or leave... I don't want to lose our kids physically or metaphorically when they start to grow up and be more independant. This is the reason why I will consciously work on building a lasting relationship of trust and love, because fear and brute force only lasts untill the kids are strong enough to leave.

Pain to prevent pain is especially illogical. I want to be a source of relief, not a source of harm for my child.

Children are having to learn everything from scratch. How would you feel if you were simulteniously trying to study for the SAT and trying to learn ballet, meanwhile every time you make a mistake of ignorance, your best friend comes by, gets angry and hits you.

Toddlers especially are trying to learn about physics, vocabulary, safety, love, etc etc all using only context clues. It's extremly difficult. I want to help make it easier for them to act the way I will teach them to act.
post #9 of 13
There are a few books out there that make a strong case for physical punishment undermining parental authority. Anthony Wolf comes to mind (I've not read the book, just read about it here). I think Gordon Neufeld says something about that in his book Hold On To Your Kids.
I'll try to find some articles...

Thomas Gordon
Some articles on different types of parental authority here:
http://www.gordontraining.com/family...resources.html

These are just general articles on why not to physically punish kids.
http://www.naturalchild.com/james_ki...unishment.html
http://www.naturalchild.com/jan_hunt/shouldnt_hurt.html

I do think that if someone "has to" punish a child, it's a sign that they don't have enough real authority. Maybe take it from that angle?
Also, punishment (at best) teaches kids to "behave" for self centered reasons. It teaches that the reason to do x (or not do x) is because of the effect it will have on themselves. It doesn't teach them anything about the REAL reasons to behave in a socially acceptable manner.
post #10 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy View Post
Typically there are two fronts as far as convincing someone to your GD point of view. Depending on your SO, you should choose one and hit it hard. With most men I know
Logic and results are the easier sell.

1) Emotional plea - I feel like it is wrong to inflict shame or pain on our children. I think it was wrong that it was done to you, and I want something better for our kids.

2) Logical plea - How long did pyhsical and shame based parenting work on you? Probably untill you were old enough to ignore or retalliate or leave... I don't want to lose our kids physically or metaphorically when they start to grow up and be more independant. This is the reason why I will consciously work on building a lasting relationship of trust and love, because fear and brute force only lasts untill the kids are strong enough to leave.

Pain to prevent pain is especially illogical. I want to be a source of relief, not a source of harm for my child.

Children are having to learn everything from scratch. How would you feel if you were simulteniously trying to study for the SAT and trying to learn ballet, meanwhile every time you make a mistake of ignorance, your best friend comes by, gets angry and hits you.

Toddlers especially are trying to learn about physics, vocabulary, safety, love, etc etc all using only context clues. It's extremly difficult. I want to help make it easier for them to act the way I will teach them to act.
Wow, that is AWESOME!! I have used a version of #2 before, but I can do it again! SO said, Spanking worked on me....I was like, oh, really, so you only ever got spanked once for any given 'wrong' You never commited the same transgression after being spanked? He did not have an answer for that. And I said, so it didn't REALLY work, did it?

post #11 of 13
An extension of the logical plea is that everyone I know who was hit as a child did not learn right behaviour, but how to better hide wrong behaviour. (This was the argument that finally worked with my dh. That and "hit my kids and I will dissapear with the kids")
Hitting does not make kids well behaved, it makes them sneaky.
post #12 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by momma of monkeys View Post
I am at the end of my rope here :, ds has been hard to manage, dd is adventerous and curious beyond my(and SO) ability to keep her safe without constant supervision, and SO and I just don't agree about GD, he thinks I am a hippy. I just want my kids to grow up better adn healthier than we did....what do I do????:
I don't want to hijack your thread, but I'm at the end of my rope with my dh about this. He is giving me the most inane arguments ever for spanking
post #13 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by klg47 View Post
I don't want to hijack your thread, but I'm at the end of my rope with my dh about this. He is giving me the most inane arguments ever for spanking
hijack away....I'll take all the help I can get on this one
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