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Less Sensitive=Lasts Longer - Page 4

post #61 of 75
So, according to ilovetiger, we're allowed to say that circ is mutilation, but not to discuss the tangible consequences of said mutilation? :

N-kay.
post #62 of 75
Ya know, I've had SID issues my whole life, and in college had a situation that required nerve testing for skin receptors. It was found that my skin has more nerve-endings per square inch than can be calculated, because there was simply no point at which I stopped feeling the testing, which would have given a reference point to calculate the sensitivity. This was true of every single test done.

So tell me, ilovetiger, does this mean that my SID issues or pain tolerance are 90% mental?

Any why exactly do they perform these tests to measure sensitivity??


.
post #63 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by aira View Post
So, according to ilovetiger, we're allowed to say that circ is mutilation, but not to discuss the tangible consequences of said mutilation? :

N-kay.
That's pretty much what I got And of course, he'll be the judge of what is "allowed" and what isn't since we, apparently, have no idea what we're talking about :

love and peace.
post #64 of 75
I appreciate the posts from all of whom I'd expect to be posting on such a topic...but it's gone beyond the efforts of what's really important for the male. I totally expect intact males to be extremely satisfied as adults with their sexuality, and they are, perhaps, very fortunate to have maintained the penises that they were born with...Kudos to those guys....My argument is not with them. The problem I have is that the selfish sexual issues some of you women have adopted have become the hot topics being used as a selling point for anti-circ arguments. This can only be perceived as belittling to circ'd men who themselves feel very satisfied with their sexuality, as do their female partners, in many cases. This recruiting process that is going on has become much more than how to make better MOTHERING decisions for their babies....NOW some of you are attempting to influence women (whether directly or indirectly) into what would be the better CHOICE for them as a partner ...Congrats to all of you who now have some women saying, "I love him, but do you think he'd consider restoration?? I never complained, but they keep telling me it will be even better than it already is. It's like night and day.. one woman on the forum said she'd rather spend 5 minutes with an intact guy than 2 hours with a circ'd guy...".
Maybe the grass is greener on the other side.. It's the nature of the beast..."Let's see if I could get something BETTER FOR ME!!!!!"
post #65 of 75
Thread Starter 
ilovetiger,

Please watch this video, and then get back to us with your thoughts:

The Prepuce - a D.O.C. video (wmv)

See also:

NOHARMM: Anatomy and functions of the male foreskin:
http://www.noharmm.org/anatomy.htm

CIRP: Anatomy of the Penis, Mechanics of Intercourse:
http://www.cirp.org/pages/anat/

CIRP: The Penis and Foreskin: Preputial Anatomy and Sexual Function:
http://www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/

Jen
post #66 of 75
ilovetiger: I feel for you, I really do. There is nothing on this forum that we have said that isn't true.

Sad to say, when it comes down to it, men do not get any choice in the matter, it's mostly women who make the actual decision (whether they decide to "defer" to their husbands or not, it is their decision that counts in the hospital, and it's them that protects the baby if they are so inclined). Any truthful information that influences a woman against circumcision, including the knowledge that by so doing she is sexually damaging her son, is good information.

You still haven't addressed my point about why women should continue to accept the blame for "female sexual dysfunction" which seems to be so rampant in the US, when it is most likely their partners' "iatrogenically deficient" penises causing the problem. Why shouldn't women be told that the pain and dryness they are suffering is because their men are circumcised, since it's true?

Equally, why shouldn't women tell other women about the difference, and why shouldn't they have a preference as to which type of penis they prefer? I prefer tall men with dark hair and brown eyes with tattoos, am I not allowed to state this now? (According to you). What is wrong with preferring a penis that hasn't been altered and not liking dry painful sex?

Circumcised men have got to get past this "there's nothing wrong with me" thing, for the benefit of the next generation, it's men like yourself who cannot accept that they have been changed sexually who are helping to perpetrate and continue this atrocity.

If we're talking selfishness, it's men like you who seem quite prepared to sacrifice a woman's comfort and wellbeing on the altar of your ego, even to the extent of causing her actual pain and harm.

Does it ever occur to men that if the woman was enjoying it, she'd want sex more often?
post #67 of 75
As a circ'd male, I used to go by the premise of "going longer", although I never saw it as justification for infant geneital mutilation (if someone wants half of their penis cut off, they can do it themselves, I've always believed that). However, I don't go by this premise anymore, and frankly am looking forward to restoration so my wife and I can both enjoy sex the way Mother Nature intended. Anyone who uses this myth as justification needs to have something else cut off...
post #68 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovetiger View Post
The problem I have is that the selfish sexual issues some of you women have adopted have become the hot topics being used as a selling point for anti-circ arguments. This can only be perceived as belittling to circ'd men who themselves feel very satisfied with their sexuality, as do their female partners, in many cases. This recruiting process that is going on has become much more than how to make better MOTHERING decisions for their babies....NOW some of you are attempting to influence women (whether directly or indirectly) into what would be the better CHOICE for them as a partner"
Procirc women use the "cut the foreskin off so he'll last longer" as an argument to circumcise their sons. We just refuted what they said, then you come on here and attack us. : We didn't start this whole conversation, or make this up to make circumcised men feel bad. They started this conversation, we just refuted it, don't attack us... go onto a pro-circ. board and attack them! Which I'm sure you would NEVER do, even though they are saying the same thing!!! "I prefer circumcised men, b/c they last longer." I don't see you getting all upset about them saying that! and then cutting off part of their son's penis as justification for their "selfish pleasures."
post #69 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by jee'smom View Post
Procirc women use the "cut the foreskin off so he'll last longer" as an argument to circumcise their sons. We just refuted what they said, then you come on here and attack us. : We didn't start this whole conversation, or make this up to make circumcised men feel bad. They started this conversation, we just refuted it, don't attack us... go onto a pro-circ. board and attack them! Which I'm sure you would NEVER do, even though they are saying the same thing!!! "I prefer circumcised men, b/c they last longer." I don't see you getting all upset about them saying that! and then cutting off part of their son's penis as justification for their "selfish pleasures."


This bears repeating.
post #70 of 75
When it comes to sex, quality is always preferred over quantity! Ask anyone...
post #71 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovetiger
...and yes, the chance that the circ procedure can be ill-performed and lead to problems later in life...leave that to the man to restore, if he so chooses;
Do you know that some parts can never be restored? Restoration is not 100%. Also, cutting it off takes minutes, while restoration takes years. Seems to me that it is better to leave it on and he can take it off later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mommiska
Circumcision alters male sexuality, which necessarily alters female response to that male sexuality.
I have read that a circed man needs to move his penis slightly differently to get proper stimulation, and that those movements are less compatible with the needs of a woman in reaching orgasm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mommiska
It sounds like you both want to limit discussion to only the immediate harm to newborns. But that is amazingly short-sighted.

And it also can (which I suspect you might be aware of) lead to a pro-circ argument: i.e., if we can make circ painless in newborns, then it's perfectly fine to do it, because circ has no other harmful effects.

Even if foreskins really ARE wafted off by kitten kisses & the baby sleeps through the whole thing blissfully, circ is still an extremely damaging surgery which constitutes a violation of man's bodily integrity and it has life-long ill effects.
:

--------

Blarg

My husband's penis is important to me, not just because of the pleasure it brings me. It is part of him, and I wouldn't like to imagine ANY part of him being damaged or removed or pained in any way. I can't see why people would want to cut up a body part, and especially one that is so sensitive and special and precious. And I can't see why they think it is no big deal to do so.

I have a friend who is very angry at his parents for letting doctors circ him when he was about 3. Then immigrated to the US, and the doctors said he needed it (he doesn't remember why, but it was probably something along the lines of him not being retractile yet and the doc, inexperienced with intact penises, thinking he had a problem) so his innocent and naive parents consented. He feels very wronged by his parents. I tell him that I doubt they did it deliberately to harm him, it was ignorance. (He understands that logically, but can't "feel" it like that.) And the one he should direct his anger at is the doctor who acted like he knew what he was talking about but didn't. (If a doctor prescribed a medication about which he knew little, for a condition about which he knew little, and passed himself off as an expert on it, and if the patient suffered harmful consequences, that would be grounds for a malpractice suit.) He wants to one day confront his parents about it. Their relationship is currently very fragile.

-------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama Poot
I just had an experience with this very recently. And I can tell you that I was amazed at the LACK of control a circ'd man has. I felt awful for my friend and wanted to cry DH is intact and we've never EVER had problems with him finishing too soon or prematurely or whatever. I totally believe that some circ'd guys honestly can't feel things enough and are so desensitized that it causes problems. Circ'ing definitely didn't help my friend last longer. I'm gonna go feel sorry for him now....
I just asked my intact husband if he ever felt like he was ejaculating sooner than he though was ideal. He said no. I asked him if he used methods I have heard about, like running sports scores in his head, to hold out longer. He said never. In the 9 years we have been together, I have never noticed him have any issues with control, or lasting too short of a time. But, as he is the only partner I have had, I don't know if that is typical for intact men, and how circed men compare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Nikki~
In my experience, the "goal" of intercourse with a circumsized man is to reach orgasm as quickly as possible, because that's the enjoyable part for both participants. During intercourse with an intact man, the "journey" to the end is the best, and the orgasm is just icing on the very delicious cake.
From what I have read, it sounds like intact men get a wider variety of sensations, and a longer build-up. My husband always says that the more build-up before ejaculating, the better it seems to be. I would think that the issue is not just the EXISTENCE of the orgasm, or the SPEED of the orgasm, but also the QUALITY.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovetiger
The problem I have is that the selfish sexual issues some of you women have adopted have become the hot topics being used as a selling point for anti-circ arguments. This can only be perceived as belittling to circ'd men who themselves feel very satisfied with their sexuality, as do their female partners, in many cases.
Please note that anti-circers never started off saying that the pleasure to women was an issue. But, we face it every day in talking to people. There are huge numbers of people who use that as their rationalization for why a circed penis is more ideal. In order to counter that thinking, this thread was started to discuss the fact that circing has not been proven to cause the effect they claim, and to discuss how to bring that info into the public knowledge to balance the false claims.

Also, while I am tactful with circed men, who I know tend to not want to realize that they have been mutilated and lost something of value, I don't see a need to protect them from the truth. If circed men persist in perpetuating the myth that they are somehow improved in their ability to please women, which I assume is a stance they take in order to comfort themselves, then I do see that we have a responsibility to protect the intact men who feel belittled by these false claims.

This is not to say that the feelings of intact men should be protected from belittling while the feelings of the circed men are not important. Rather it is a matter of the simple fact that pro-circers have made this an issue about which way is better for female pleasure, and both can't be declared better. In that case, the TRUTH suggests that, if we have to be forced into choosing the superior type for female pleasure (as the pro-circers are pressing this challenge), the honestly better type is the one left as nature intended.

(Note that personally I never take up this topic, but will respond if I think a pro-circer is spreading false info. In another board, a good friend of mine gave this argument about why it is so great that he is circed. I didn't say anything because I knew the other members were already very anti-circ and wouldn't be swayed, and the friend would not be helped by explaining to him that he has been victimized and lost something of value he can never get back.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daisyuk
Equally, why shouldn't women tell other women about the difference, and why shouldn't they have a preference as to which type of penis they prefer? I prefer tall men with dark hair and brown eyes with tattoos, am I not allowed to state this now? (According to you). What is wrong with preferring a penis that hasn't been altered and not liking dry painful sex?
Our culture has developed a view that circed is better. I have heard women telling me they wouldn't have sex with an intact man because it is ugly and dirty. I don't see why, since this door has already been opened, we can't counter what is pouring through the door, with truthful info.
post #72 of 75
LadyLila -

Your post deserves a bump. Very well said.
post #73 of 75
Thanks! I didn't think anyone would read it because it was so long.
post #74 of 75

My exprience

I don't quite now how to put this into words, but I will try.

I'm a happily intact male for 31 years now and not a single problem. I am very attached to my foreskin, meaning loving it, and wouldn't part w/ it for anything in the world!

When I masturbate a lot in a given amount of time, say a few times a day, my penis feels-- and here's the part I have problems properly putting into words-- "well used". Meaning, my glans feel very sensitive. It's a small pulsing, but not in a negative way.

I value the natural protective layer my foreskin provides when I cover the glans to give it some "resting time" (that is if I can resist the urge to go at it again!).

My ex-partner is cut (at birth) and from my knowledge (of his words), his glans just don't feel "well used" after several masturbation sessions. See, I'm saying that as a NEGATIVE on his part and a POSITIVE on mine! It makes me feel, well, sad for him. Sad that his glans are toughened that he doesn't feel that natural pulsing after stimulation that I feel... and I assume women may feel in their clitoris (???). The fact that he doesn't mean he's not as sensitive and WTF is that good for??!! Feeling LESS sensitive sexually? That's not natural; that's not right! It's gotta show you that circumcision can't bring a positive to your life sexually. I guess I was editorializing in that last line, but that's how I feel. Even if you chose to get cut as an adult.

Oh, and the myth that "cut = last longer" suuuuuuuuuuuure isn't true in MY case!!! Every one's different sexually, meaning psychologically. THAT'S where the release valve is located. And even if it WERE true that being circumcised equalled lasting longer, you have to ask yourself what the heck you're giving up to last longer! Is it worth it??? I say a determined: NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
post #75 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by jee'smom View Post
Procirc women use the "cut the foreskin off so he'll last longer" as an argument to circumcise their sons. We just refuted what they said, then you come on here and attack us. : We didn't start this whole conversation, or make this up to make circumcised men feel bad. They started this conversation, we just refuted it, don't attack us... go onto a pro-circ. board and attack them! Which I'm sure you would NEVER do, even though they are saying the same thing!!! "I prefer circumcised men, b/c they last longer." I don't see you getting all upset about them saying that! and then cutting off part of their son's penis as justification for their "selfish pleasures."

Well said!!!
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