Ds is sad and angry about nightweaning--how to help?

[Ex Libris]

've x-posted this in BFing Beyond Infancy since I'm not sure the best place for it. I started nightweaning my ds 3 yo last Thursday night. I know he's really not ready, but I needed to stop. I've got bursitis and nerve damage in my arms, and I've gone into early menopause from intense nursing for 3 years. Plus, ds is always tired b/c he wakes up every 2 hours to nurse (not to mention the fact that I haven't had a full night's sleep myself since he was born).

He's done some crying along the way, of course. A few nights it was ok, but then last night he cried for 30 minutes or so in the wee hours of the morning before I could console him enough to sleep. During the day is when I've seen a real change. He's clearly been angry--aggressive, demanding, rude, mean to us and other kids (tried to kick his little cousin who was on the slide in front of him), etc. I know it's due to the nightweaning b/c he's always been a gentle child unless he's upset or distressed.

I truly don't know how to approach this. I talk to him about it, explain how mama's arms hurt, how he's not a tiny baby anymore who needs mama's milk at night. We talk about all the things he can do now that he's a big boy, and all the things that tiny babies can't do (he's got a nursing, newborn cousin who we talk about). He wants to talk about these things, but it doesn't seem to be helping.

Ds is a high needs, intense child who, if he could, would nurse almost as much as a newborn. I just can't do it anymore. So I desperately need some suggestions for ways to connect with him again. And I need some ideas about how to handle the aggression he's exhibiting during the day. Do I ignore it and let him express his anger? Should I talk to him about it? What do I say? Are there some books I can read with him about nightweaning or anger in general?

I'd appreciate any help or advice you can give. I feel horrible being distant from ds.

Thanks, Kelly

[TattooedMama]

Oh, I'm sorry. No advice, just hugs.

[ruhbehka]

I wonder if giving him a special longer morning nursing/cuddle session might help? Something to help him reconnect in the morning and feel close to you again?

You might mention how you love to snuggle with him in the mornings, especially when you get a good night's sleep, etc.?

[lemon]

What about recruiting your dh to sleep with ds and take the heat in the middle of the night? It might help deflect ds's anger if it's not you that's turning him down. My dh has been instrumental in my ablility to nightwean. Both because he handles the anger/distress better and also because he does not have my ambivalence. I know ds picks up on my ambivalence about things like this and it makes it confusing for him. He fights harder for what he wants when he senses I am having trouble saying no, kwim? There are times when my dh's lack of lengthy explanations and straightforward this-is-the-new-rule-and-that's-just-the-way-it-is approach seems to work better than my desire to talk it out.

We night weaned at around 2.5. After I went out of town for the weekend alone and ds slept fine through the night with just dh. Which never happened when me and the breasts were around. It was tough at times, but I am *so* glad we did it. I didn't think I was sleeping badly or anything, but it's amazing the difference it makes not waking up frequently through the night. Am now on verge of weaning altogether at just 3. I am ready but ds's eagerness to nurse is making me ambivalent. Probably I need to listen to my gut and just do it.

eta: I just realized our sons are about the same age. Yours is just 1 month older. I am finding this age very difficult in general because of the increased testing of boundaries, struggle to have things his way, etc. So I totally get how hard this must be right now.

[MaxMommy]

Do you co-sleep? That helped the nightweaning process for us.

Originally Posted by ruhbehka

I wonder if giving him a special longer morning nursing/cuddle session might help? Something to help him reconnect in the morning and feel close to you again?

You might mention how you love to snuggle with him in the mornings, especially when you get a good night's sleep, etc.?

I agree 100%!

Our ds's are close in age and I nightweaned mine a few months ago, just before 3rd bday. Although our situations were different, (it was easy for us, done in only 3 days with no tears, he was very ready) I continued a long nursing session before bed and a very long one in the AM.

For the morning nursing, I told him how cuddling and nursing in the morning is my favourite part of the day, especially after such a good sleep. I talked about how I loved sleeping close to him all night long and various other things to reassure him.

Now 4 months later, that reconnection in the AM really is our favourite part of the day.

Hugs to you both and good luck

[chefpaige1]

He's probably too intense for this to work, but I couldn't stand the nursing when I was VERY pregnant with my 3rd. I'd give him warning that we would only nurse for a short time, like to count to ten? It was sad for my middle son, but he was very understanding to me.

[Fuamami]

Originally Posted by lemon

What about recruiting your dh to sleep with ds and take the heat in the middle of the night? It might help deflect ds's anger if it's not you that's turning him down. My dh has been instrumental in my ablility to nightwean. Both because he handles the anger/distress better and also because he does not have my ambivalence. I know ds picks up on my ambivalence about things like this and it makes it confusing for him. He fights harder for what he wants when he senses I am having trouble saying no, kwim? There are times when my dh's lack of lengthy explanations and straightforward this-is-the-new-rule-and-that's-just-the-way-it-is approach seems to work better than my desire to talk it out.

I was going to say that maybe you're overexplaining/analyzing. I weaned my children a lot earlier than you, but I made it more matter-of-fact. I didn't make a big deal out of it, I was calmly empathetic if they cried, but I also tried to be relaxed and firm about it. I think that weaning is like creating a boundary between you and your child, one that didn't exist before. So you have to create it, and then you let your child accept it. You can help them with this a little bit, but since you're the one creating it, I think it gets a little confusing for them if you try to help them too much.

That probably made no sense, so I'm going to bed! Good luck!

[oliversmum2000]

could you create some new connection routines. create a comfy spot in a comfy chair, and go there with a soft blanket, a drink of warm milk or whatever else it is that he likes to drink (other than breastmilk!) and some books. perhaps you could take him shopping to choose some new books and a new blanket and even a new cuddly friend and leave all of those things in the special place and then the 2 of you could go and sit there instead of nursing, read and cuddle?

this may be a terrible idea, and he may just cry to nurse once he gets there - i just wanted to try to offer a suggestion. , i am sorry you are going through such a hard time.

[Momtwice]

I talk to him about it, explain how mama's arms hurt, how he's not a tiny baby anymore who needs mama's milk at night.

I hear you.

I want to gently, gently suggest that this phrase might be contributing to his anger. Not the part about your needs, which you absolutely have the right to express but the part about telling him he is not a baby/telling him he does not need to nurse at night anymore. Because from his point of view that may not be how he feels at all. He might feel pressured to grow up along with his grief/anger.

Telling him you understand he is sad/angry/frustrated/misses night nursing might be helpful. It might not at age 3, but it's worth a try IMHO.

Have you read any of the books by Faber and Mazlish such as
"How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk?"
or "Siblings without Rivalry?"
http://fabermazlish.com/
In my opinion they are excellent (Especially "How To...") about how to phrase things/communicate/steer through this type of emotional minefield.

Because there may be a disconnect between how he feels and how he thinks you want him to feel, and in my humble opinion that could contribute to the anger due to frustration. Because it's hard enough for us adults to negotiate talking about feelings, let alone a little guy.

Again, I say this gently and with the full understanding that you have the right to nightwean a 3 year old.

I also suggest the books
How Weaning Happens
and
Mothering Your Nursing Toddler

The local LLL group library may have these books, if you are a member.

(Good advice above to keep the discussion brief. You know him best, and you know whether or not a long or short discussion of feelings etc. will be helpful to him.)

[Momtwice]

Ds is a high needs, intense child

Mamas, what is that really good book about parenting intense kids, with a little girl on the cover with her arms thrown wide open? It has a workbook too. It's REALLY good.

[straighthaircurly]

Originally Posted by Momtwice

Mamas, what is that really good book about parenting intense kids, with a little girl on the cover with her arms thrown wide open? It has a workbook too. It's REALLY good.

Is this the one you are talking about?
http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Your-S.../dp/0060923288

and the workbook:
http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Your-S.../dp/0060952407

[Momtwice]

Yes, straighthaircurly!!

[katallen]

I agree with the pp who said that you might be adding to his anger by telling him he isn't a tiny baby who needs to nurse anymore. He is not a tiny baby and the milk isn't so essential ten million times a night, but he may still feel that he needs to nurse and comparing him to a baby may be hurting his feelings.
To make the night weaning easier I suggest doing more with him during the day like going to the park, reading with him in your lap, talking to him at meals, doing art with him and showing an interest in his art, sitting with him while he plays and participating if he lets you, etc... I found that when I weaned dd she needed to move back into my bed in order to feel fully connected. That was fine with me though because I was so done being willing to nurse that I was willing to have her in the bed again if only she wouldn't nurse.

[Ex Libris]

Originally Posted by natensarah

I was going to say that maybe you're overexplaining/analyzing. I weaned my children a lot earlier than you, but I made it more matter-of-fact. I didn't make a big deal out of it, I was calmly empathetic if they cried, but I also tried to be relaxed and firm about it. I think that weaning is like creating a boundary between you and your child, one that didn't exist before. So you have to create it, and then you let your child accept it. You can help them with this a little bit, but since you're the one creating it, I think it gets a little confusing for them if you try to help them too much.

That probably made no sense, so I'm going to bed! Good luck!

Natensarah and Momtwice--I think you're absolutely right. I've been wondering this lately b/c ds has been asking me to tell the "tiny baby story" at nap and bedtime. He wants to hear about all the things he can do that a little baby can't, and wants me to tell him, "But you're still my baby." I think I shouldn't have brought this idea up at all. Plus, it might be contributing to his aggression toward other kids, esp the ones smaller than himself. I'm going to stop talking about it and acknowledge that he still feels like a baby. Thank you for your suggestion.

I do have the books "How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk" and "Raising Your Spirited Child" (but not the workbook). I need to review these books for ideas. Thanks for the reminder.

ruhbehka and MaxMommy--I do cosleep and nurse him as long as he wants in the morning, but I haven't talked about it being special in any way. I'll have to do that.

lemon--yes, this age seems particularly hard. I wish I could get dh's help, but ds wants nothing to do with him at night. Even when he tries to go in to comfort ds while I run to the bathroom, ds screams. Sigh.

chefpaige1--this is exactly what we've been doing for a couple of months now to get us ready to wean. But we'd have battles even then b/c ds always wanted "just a little bit more."

oliversmum2000--that's a wonderful idea to create a special routine. And maybe some warm milk and special books before bed would be nice. Thanks for the idea.

[Momtwice]

What a wise, wonderful little boy who can actually verbalize that he wants you to tell him he's still your baby! He sounds so smart and perceptive!

And you sound like a great mom who cares a lot. He's lucky to have you.

[LynnS6]

I wrote by own weaning book because I couldn't find one -- I put in pictures of dd when she was tiny and nursing, then as she grew and learned new things. So the plot was basically about how she grew and learned new things, and was still nursing at each age because that's how babies eat, and then as she got older because we knew she needed to feel close. She was learning new things and nursing. But mom and dad were very tired because it's hard to wake up.

Then I wrote that it wasn't good for Mom and Dad to be so tired anymore because we were getting sick a lot (dh has been coming down with one cold after another because he's chronically sleep deprived), and we didn't have enough energy to play and do fun things like go to the park.

So... we were going to help her learn something new. We were going to help her learn to sleep all night without nursing. And she might be sad, she might be mad, she might cry (pictures of her looking sad, angry, crying). But we would rub her back, we would sing to her, we would cuddle her. It might be hard, but we knew that she could learn this, and we would be there to help.

We read the book about once a week and it helps. She likes it because there are lots of pictures of her in it!

If you notice, the plot focuses on Mom and Dad's need to sleep, and how she can learn to do something new. It's NOT on how she is no longer a baby. It acknowledges that it might be hard and she might be angry/sad, but we will help her learn and comfort her. And I focus on the things that mom and dad can do because they won't be so tired.

The 'rules' are that she can nurse before we brush teeth at night and then not again until it's light outside. I've backslid a bit (once when she was sick, and recently because I was out of town for 5 days), and regretted it each time. It took us about 5 nights to really get past the screaming/crying. In the middle of the night, I do NO explanation, I just repeat that she can nurse when it gets light outside.

We then have a long nursing session/cuddle in the AM.

Just another thought -- I would read the book "The Out of Sync Child" or "Sensational Kids". I'm basing this on a sample size of 2, but both kids that I know who are still such intense nursers at this age turned out to have sensory processing issues. So, at very least, I would give him lots of sensory input with his food (crunchy, chewy (but not mixed textures)) and lots of sensory things with his body -- jumping, playdough, silly putty, sand and water play, bins of rice or beans to find hidden toys in, deep hugs, etc. (Raising a Sensory Smart Child has good ideas, as does The Out of Sync Child has Fun). That might help during the DAY -- because it will get him the sensory stuff that he might ordinarily get during the night.

[lemon]

Originally Posted by Ex Libris

lemon--yes, this age seems particularly hard. I wish I could get dh's help, but ds wants nothing to do with him at night. Even when he tries to go in to comfort ds while I run to the bathroom, ds screams. Sigh.

Just to clarify, my ds prefers me to put him to bed and sleep with him as well. He just doesn't get me every night anymore. When we were first nightweaning, I'd go sleep in the other room & ds could only have dh whether he liked it or not. But after a few nights of outrage, ds got used to me not being around. He still asks for me, sometimes with tantrum, when it's dh's night to put him to bed, but he is usually okay with just dh at this point. (Actually, I think for me this might be the best part about nightweaning--not having to be the only one in charge of bedtimes & getting to stay up late on my nights off.)

That said, I think this strategy worked for us because a) my dh is not afraid of playing the bad cop and b) despite his distress at getting stuck with papa, we knew we were not pushing him beyond what he could handle.

Of course, you need to go with your own gut about what will work best for your family and your sweet ds.

[Dandelionkid]

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