this breaks my heart...UPDATE post 62

[hipumpkins]

My friend is having twin boys and planning to circ them b/c she is afraid that the sensation of the foreskin will be too much tempation for them and they will masturbate too much. Please help me her understand she needn't circ them..

[vermontgirl]

This is so sad and so strange!
I just dont understand how someone could be against masturbation-and that they would circumcise their son because of that!
How frusterating. Poor sweet little boys.

[Nathan1097]

So she believes that her boys won't masturbate if they're circumcised. Wow.

[jessjgh1]

uhhm, maybe she needs to take a look at some masturbation polls because I have a strong suspician that circumcision is not going to curb it.

Her view seems so wrong and unhealthy.... I just don't know where to start

(and any chance she is pulling a very early April Fool's joke on you)

Jessica

[purposefulmother]

Maiming your son so he won't masterbate. That's like blinding him so he won't ogle someone. Incredible. Incredibly sad.

[Yoshua]

The original reason for ric was to stop masterbation, tell her it is most effective if you wait until he is 13 to circumcize him... :

[Amber Lion]

So basically she wants to circ her sons to make sure they have crappy sex lives because she thinks sexual pleasure is wrong?!? :

That's beyond bizarre to me. I wouldn't even know where to start.. she obviously KNOWS one of the major cons to circing... and thinks it's a pro!

Not to mention the fact that masturbation is HEALTHY and will happen regardless of the circ. Those poor boys. Why would you WANT to screw your child up sexually?!?!

Does she think she can keep her sons from EVER having sexual experiences? Why is SHE having sex to procreate if she thinks it's so gross?!?

This just really, really steams me up.

[mothragirl]

: , those poor kids.

[hipumpkins]

she obviously KNOWS one of the major cons to circing... and thinks it's a pro!

Yup that is why I am at a loss. If you met her you would have no idea she felt this way. I certainly didn't. I have known her for several years and we are not best of friends we worked together and have only recently been back in touch when she was trying to adopt and than got pregnant as I was pumping for her adopted baby (the adoption fell through) .

We email now and then as she asks me for links and stuff about motheirng and NFL stuff.

[trmpetplaya]

Originally Posted by Amber Lion

So basically she wants to circ her sons to make sure they have crappy sex lives because she thinks sexual pleasure is wrong?!? :

That's beyond bizarre to me. I wouldn't even know where to start.. she obviously KNOWS one of the major cons to circing... and thinks it's a pro!

Not to mention the fact that masturbation is HEALTHY and will happen regardless of the circ. Those poor boys. Why would you WANT to screw your child up sexually?!?!

Does she think she can keep her sons from EVER having sexual experiences? Why is SHE having sex to procreate if she thinks it's so gross?!?

This just really, really steams me up.

: I am beyond words right now... I would no doubt alienate her as a friend with my response so I won't put it here... even though I probably wouldn't MIND alienating her if I were you : OMG...

love and peace.

[lemurmommies]

Woah. That is so sad and wrong.

Circumcising her sons to make their penises less sensitive.

Ack. :

[earthmama369]

What would she do with a girl?

[mamasophy]

MDs in the 1800s and early 20th century also recommended specifically unanesthatized circ to prevent or "cure" masturbation "to associate it with punishment"...

[hipumpkins]

This is what I sent so far...
The 1800s thing was probabaly reference to american circumcison...not worldwide. I think everyone knows it's been going since biblical times...however the foreskin is not just for sensitvity....:

The foreskin also serves as a vital defense against infection. Just as the eyelids protect the eyes, the foreskin covers and protects the urinary opening, helping to maintain the sterility of the urinary tract. It also keeps the surface of the glans soft, moist, and sensitive. Thus it maintains optimal warmth, pH balance, and cleanliness.13 Between the foreskin and glans, an antiviral, antibacterial substance called smegma accumulates. Smegma contains several protective substances, including an immunoprotective enzyme, lysozyme, which is also found in tears, breast milk, and other body fluids. When the foreskin is removed during circumcision, smegma no longer accumulates between the foreskin and glans, and smegmaa^?(TM)s immunoprotective properties are lost.14



While you are researching would you just consider that you would not be considering this if you had a girl? Many african cultures teach that girls should be circumcised for the same reasons that we circumcise here in US...and we are horrified by Female genital mutilataion.
As for your freind who wishes he was circumsized he can have the procedure done now and b/c it is his body he has that right. I would not think any man who wants to be cut shouldn't be...babies however are not given the option.

I also have lots of info on the so called "sugar water" as far as helping distract babies. Another think to think about is that the spread eagle position is the mos vulnerable and frightenning position for any human...no matter the age. It is terrifying for an infant to be starpped in that way and then have surgery.
I hope we can keep this dialogue open b/c I would love to see you change your mind.

Valerie

[phatchristy]

Hmm...we need to get these links together. Circumcised men have HIGHER frequency of masturbation AND alternate sexual practices. I've read it in several places. They theorize the reason is that since circumcised men "feel less" they compensate with increased frequency (and often have to resort to using other things that stimulate their minds, such as pornography).

Pretty scarry stuff that she is doing this for that reason : .

[phatchristy]

...data indicate that circumcised men engage in a somewhat more elaborated set of sexual practices than do men who are not circumcised. For each of the practices examined, lifetime experience of various forms of oral and anal sex and masturbation frequency in the past year, circumcised men engaged in these behaviors at greater rates. The difference between circumcised men was greatest for masturbation - ironically, a practice that circumcision was once thought to limit. A total of 47% of circumcised men reported masturbating at least once a month vs 34% for their uncircumcised peers.

http://www.cirp.org/library/general/laumann/

[pdx.mothernurture]

In case she's ever blessed with girls, let her know applying acid to the clitoris will 'allay abnormal excitement'...

A remedy which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision, especially when there is any degree of phimosis. The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anæsthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases...In females, the author has found the application of pure carbolic acid to the clitoris an excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement, and preventing the recurrence of the practice in those whose will-power has become so weakened that the patient is unable to exercise entire self-control.

"Plain facts for old and young: embracing the natural history and hygiene of organic life", physician John Harvey Kellogg, l877

Oh, wait, that might just give her ideas.

Jen

[mamasophy]

A search for "benefits female circumcison" will produce several sites which contain reference to the medical benefits of removing the clitoral hood - circlist (I know, gross) has a section devoted to female circ and those who attest to its wonderful benefits (medically, sexually, morally...). That'd give her something to think about. But given what she thinks, it might just convince her to circ a girl!!

[MommytoB]

She should speak to my family or meet my family the only one who doesn't touch his penis now is my son btw is intact . But my family of my mom's side & dad's side are "HORNY" and I'm not kidding on that !!!!! That's half of the talk of issues they having or jokes like that!!!!!!!! My mom & stepdad actually bruised their butt after a wild dtd ( how I know that ) because my uncle was talking about that and I know they do tmi is so totally embrassing to be around them @ times but oh well .

[sophiekat]

Originally Posted by Attached Mama

And I would outright ask her if their isn't a better way to teach her children their moral values without having to mutilate them in the process!!

:
she doesn't sound confident in her mothering/teaching abilities if she wants to rely on circ to keep her sons from masturbating (holding my tongue as to the merits of such a worldview).
:
let us know how/if she responds.
in the meantime, i would put together every link you can find about how circ negatively affects nursing -- perhaps you can frame it as "just wait a bit" to circ so they can establish bf-ing and give yourself more time to work on the no circ bit?