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If you religiously oppose masterbation...

post #1 of 472
Thread Starter 
I am not even sure if religions even still denounce it or not however a friend of mine is planning on circing her future twin boys b/c she believes uncirc'd men masturbate more and she is ...(A shocker to me)...opposed to masturbation. I think b/c of releigion. She is Episcopalain as am I but I never rmemeber anything ike that .

I do have a post in the case against circumcison http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=639328 but I am now looking for some ways to show her how she can respectfully teach her boys about not masterbating and that she doesn't have to circ them . So if you are against it and teach your children gently your beleifs could you help me help her.

You can jsut PM me if you don't feel like outing yourself. Thank you!
post #2 of 472
I know that there are some rules in the old testament about 'spilling of the seed' and here's what wikipedia says:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onanism



Just to give you a bit of background....
post #3 of 472
I teach and encourage my chidlren towards purity in thoughts and action. this includes masturbation. i have never made it a big deal, treat it kinda like picking thier nose, . . . knock it off and go wash your hands . . . an undesirable habit (we will talk more about it when they are older) that shouldn't be indulged.

I don't know how to approach the circumcision thing except to tell her it isn't going to help. i am pretty sure every man on the planet masturbates. circed or not. She needs to get a real perspective on this from real men. Poor girl, she is going to be severly shocked and dissapointed. perhaps that actually will help her. If she wants them to abstain form all sexual impurity (I think more people are concerned about what is going on in ones mind during the act rather than the act) teaching is the only thing that will do it. But snipping the end hasn't slowed any man down yet. . . .
post #4 of 472
How absurd. sorry. but really.
post #5 of 472
That's just sad. I don't think you're going to get a lot of support for your friend on this board. Maybe I'm wrong.
post #6 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by mama2mygirl View Post
That's just sad. I don't think you're going to get a lot of support for your friend on this board. Maybe I'm wrong.
She isn't looking for support for her friend, she's looking for a way to save her friend's son from a completely unnecessary surgical procedure.

I think Lilyka's approach is good.

I could definitely see shaming in this matter causing some serious sexuality issues.
post #7 of 472
FWIW, the Episcopal church doesn't teach against masturbation.

Not that helpful, I know, but it's all I've got.
post #8 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by misseks View Post
I know that there are some rules in the old testament about 'spilling of the seed' and here's what wikipedia says:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onanism



Just to give you a bit of background....


The "old testament" you refer to refers to spilling the seed, and does *not* refer to any effort that gets one to the point of seed spilling. First of all.


And it has absolutely nothing to say about women, BTW. Zip. Nada. Zilch.


Just for the record.
post #9 of 472
Thread Starter 
Quote:
She isn't looking for support for her friend, she's looking for a way to save her friend's son from a completely unnecessary surgical procedure.
EXACTLY!!!
post #10 of 472
I don't know anyone who circs for religious reasons that used masterbation as one reason. I think that's just bizarre. And never heard of that reason until I came here.

Interesting to note, virtually all males in dh's country are circed. Dh is religiously opposed to masterbation, but when he was in the military he certainly saw a lot of circumcised guys doing it. If someone told him that avoiding masterbation was a reason to circ, he'd laugh.
post #11 of 472
:
If the guy I dated in college and DH are any indication, going by your friend's "logic", then noncirced guys must be doing nothing but masterbating.

In other words, being circed certainly didn't seem to slow them down back in our youth.

:
post #12 of 472
I don't oppose it so I can't help you there but I can agree with the others in this regard --- no man I have ever known has *not* masturbated -- and most of them have been circ'ed -- it certainly is no deterrent (sp) ...

Besides, I wonder why or how your friend thinks she can prevent masturbation -- does she plan to be in every bath, shower, private room, locker room, bedroom, by thier sides every single moment they would otherwise be alone (not that they will masturbate that whole time obviously, but pointing out there are plenty of opportunities) ...

She could shame them of course but I have always wondered why people seek to have that kind of control over what someone else does with their own bodies in the privacy of their own mind/space --

Oh yeah, the whole "you will burn in hell" thing.... gotcha...

I really hope you can reach your friend before she does something so drastic and unneccesary and which probably won't prevent anything she is trying to prevent.
post #13 of 472
Thread Starter 
She really is a kind person who just beleives way differently than we do. Her thought process is that while she knows all men masturbate she wants to lessen the desire by circing...thinking that b/c the intact man has more sensitivity he will be more tempted.
I am not looking to fight her on it just to find ways to let her know that others teach their kids a differnt way...gently and without circing.
post #14 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meiri View Post
:
If the guy I dated in college and DH are any indication, going by your friend's "logic", then noncirced guys must be doing nothing but masterbating.

In other words, being circed certainly didn't seem to slow them down back in our youth.

:


I was thinking the same thing. And this is probably not what you're looking for, but it's not really her decision whether her children maturbate or not- it's theirs. Maybe there's a delicate way to show her that...?
post #15 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipumpkins View Post
She really is a kind person who just beleives way differently than we do. Her thought process is that while she knows all men masturbate she wants to lessen the desire by circing...thinking that b/c the intact man has more sensitivity he will be more tempted.
I am not looking to fight her on it just to find ways to let her know that others teach their kids a differnt way...gently and without circing.

I apologize if I offend -- but I agree with eli's_mommy -- it really isn't her decision and something she will have no control over anyway except to use her love and influence to shame them in some way or make them feel badly for what are (imo) are natural feelings....

I honestly hope if she is a kind woman, that this is something she leaves up to God in prayer.

I am a Christian and I believe God made us in his image... with foreskin (males I mean)... I pray she changes her mind, I really do.
post #16 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipumpkins View Post
She really is a kind person who just beleives way differently than we do. Her thought process is that while she knows all men masturbate she wants to lessen the desire by circing...thinking that b/c the intact man has more sensitivity he will be more tempted.
I am not looking to fight her on it just to find ways to let her know that others teach their kids a differnt way...gently and without circing.
Maybe explaining that they don't know what they're missing will mean that they'll masturbate just as much.

The circed man has no basis of comparison, so all he knows is that touching that part of his body feels good. Maybe it doesn't light up the entire world with fireworks, but it doesn't have to, all it has to do is feel good.

And the part that feels the best is not touching himself, but orgasming. So unless she thinks that circing will stop him from orgasming, then she is not removing the real purpose and intent of masturbation, anyway....

No one masturbates just to touch themselves. Male or female, we all do it because orgasms feel good.

Masturbation is not about anything else, at the end of the day.

The only way she'll get them to do it less often, outside of teaching them, is to make them into eunichs, because that's the only way to prevent orgasm.
post #17 of 472
Okay, I wasn't clear. I just think it's so incredibly said to make a child feel badly for doing something that will come naturally.
I think that what some of the previous posters have said might help. Man was created in God's image so don't chop anything off.
Or just say that having foreskin won't increase the chances of him masturbating.
post #18 of 472
I posted more extensively about this in the circ thread. I just wanted to say that my religion (LDS) is against masturbation. We will teach that to our kids, but we will NOT use shame or guilt to do so. I'm not sure how we'll do it, but that's my plan. We do not believe that sex or sexual feelings are dirty or wrong - just that there is one proper place to express them (after marriage, between a man and a woman). If our children choose not to believe the same way we do, they will not be guilted, outcast, or otherwise.
post #19 of 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by mama2mygirl View Post
I just think it's so incredibly said to make a child feel badly for doing something that will come naturally.
Teaching a child that something is wrong does not have to mean making them feel bad about it. Think of all the things that come naturally to children that we teach them are wrong - selfishness/self-centeredness, greed, etc.
post #20 of 472
it think i weird to think about your unborn sons mastrubating in the future and how you could prevent it..... don't flame me maybe she feels guilty for mastrating herself....yeh
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