If you religiously oppose masterbation... - Page 3

[klg47]

Originally Posted by Jörð

It sickens me that people raise their children to believe that touching their own body is sinful. I wonder if these parents have never masturbated? I guess they just don't mention that. Keeps the kid feeling weird and inferior.

Thanks for your inflammatory language. That helps keep the thread on a nice even keel I already addressed this in the other thread, but yes, I have masturbated - once. I will teach my kids that it's a very strong temptation, and they're not doomed if they aren't perfect. And yes, I'm female and married, so it's much easier for me to resist than for an unmarried male. Although I do have plenty of opportunity for temptation. I have an extremely high sex drive, and my husband travels for work. He used to be gone for 2 weeks then home for 2 days. Now he's gone for several months. I seem to be surviving just great, as long as I don't let my mind become fixated on sex all the time.

[lilyka]

teaching a child what is sin , be it masturbating and impure thoughts, lying, vanity or laziness, is different that telling them they are doomed to hell for doing it. we all sin. we repent, we ask for victory, we struggle towards Godliness. its a life long journey that begins with knowing what our goals are and temptations and road blocks are and having the will to overcome temptations.

The reason I oppose masturbation is because it either leads to or comes from impure thoughts and purity begins and ends in our minds and in our hearts. I am going to do everything I can to encourage my kids to purity. instructing them in righteousness and encouraging them to please God with their whole selves. I will teach them to not flirt with sin or impurity. I just am not going to cut off part of their body to reach that goal.

but more importantly is that time has shown cutting of the foreskin does nothing to impede a man from masturbating. I would be willing to bet cutting of their hands wouldn't slow most guys down. :

[klg47]

:

[Changed]

What inflammatory language did you see in my post? Disagreeing, even passionately isn't inflammatory unless you choose to make it so. I did not curse or otherwise. I does in fact sicken me.

Lilyka, Is it impure to masturbate if you are thinking about your husband? Just curious.

[klg47]

Originally Posted by Jörð

What inflammatory language did you see in my post? Disagreeing, even passionately isn't inflammatory unless you choose to make it so. I did not curse or otherwise. I does in fact sicken me.

This is inflammatory:

Originally Posted by Jörð

It sickens me that people raise their children to believe that touching their own body is sinful.

You can disagree without saying you are sickened. We who are against masturbation could easily say the same about responses on this and the other thread, but we haven't.

[Changed]

And you could say you disagree with masturbation without calling it sinful, which personally insults me. But you see it that way and I understand that. However, it does sicken me that people teach their children that. I think its' harmful to children and that's upsetting. I am entitled to that opinion just as you are. This is religious studies and some disagreement is allowed here.

[Amris]

Originally Posted by Jörð

And you could say you disagree with masturbation without calling it sinful, which personally insults me. But you see it that way and I understand that. However, it does sicken me that people teach their children that. I think its' harmful to children and that's upsetting. I am entitled to that opinion just as you are. This is religious studies and some disagreement is allowed here.

Agreed. When children are told something is sinful, they hear, "you are bad for doing this/wanting to do this," which is really painful for them.

[yaM yaM]

I'm showing up to contribute another vote for feeling sickened.

To be thoroughly honest, I cannot even wrap my head around how touching one's own body in ANY way could be anyone's business but their own. And I believe that we were made perfectly just the way we are - naturally-occurring sexual abilities included.

[klg47]

Originally Posted by Jörð

However, it does sicken me that people teach their children that. I think its' harmful to children and that's upsetting. I am entitled to that opinion just as you are. This is religious studies and some disagreement is allowed here.

Originally Posted by Amris

Agreed. When children are told something is sinful, they hear, "you are bad for doing this/wanting to do this," which is really painful for them.

Originally Posted by May May

I'm showing up to contribute another vote for feeling sickened.

I guess I'm just confused about why you all are expressing these opinions in this particular thread. I would never go into a thread directed toward mamas of a specific religion and say "Your religion sickens me. I just can't believe you practice that." Am I missing something here?

The OP said:

Originally Posted by hipumpkins

I am now looking for some ways to show her how she can respectfully teach her boys about not masterbating and that she doesn't have to circ them . So if you are against it and teach your children gently your beleifs could you help me help her.

So I'm confused as to why anyone in favor of masturbating would be posting here.

[klg47]

Also, what are the membership/posting rules for being allowed into this forum? There is another member trying to get in here, but she can't. She has over 200 posts and has been a member longer than 6 months.

[Amris]

Originally Posted by klg47

I guess I'm just confused about why you all are expressing these opinions in this particular thread. I would never go into a thread directed toward mamas of a specific religion and say "Your religion sickens me. I just can't believe you practice that." Am I missing something here?

The OP said:



So I'm confused as to why anyone in favor of masturbating would be posting here.

Because the question is ways to help the person understand why circ isn't needed to prevent masturbation.

I had an answer for that.

All it took to see the actual question was a mouseover and read the popup.

Then I read out of curiosity after others responded. Then I saw something that someone said which I agree with, who was essentially told they're not allowed to have their opinion.

An assertion which I also do not agree with.

[klg47]

Originally Posted by Amris

Because the question is ways to help the person understand why circ isn't needed to prevent masturbation.

I guess we don't need to keep talking around each other on this, but that's not what she asked I quoted her exact words.

And don't let your prejudice about me from this thread affect your response on the LOA thread

[Amris]

Originally Posted by klg47

I guess we don't need to keep talking around each other on this, but that's not what she asked I quoted her exact words.

And don't let your prejudice about me from this thread affect your response on the LOA thread

m now looking for some ways to show her how she can respectfully teach her boys about not masterbating and that she doesn't have to circ them . So if you are against it and teach your children gently your beleifs could you help me help her.

I took that part to mean she wanted advice on how to help her friend realize that she doesn't have to circ to prevent masturbation.. ?


As for prejudice, I do not hold any. Just a simple difference of opinion. Those are allowed.

[umsami]

Originally Posted by klg47

Also, what are the membership/posting rules for being allowed into this forum? There is another member trying to get in here, but she can't. She has over 200 posts and has been a member longer than 6 months.

I honestly didn't know there were any. I thought only the DV thread had membership requirements.

[umsami]

BTW, here's a sermon from an Episcopal church that deals with masturbation.
http://www.stlukesrec.org/sermons_20..._christian.htm

"I hesitate to bring up the problem of masturbation, but it would probably be irresponsible not to. It is such a common and confusing matter. When I was a teenager, I wish somebody in the Church had addressed the issue. They rarely did. Men and women, young and old, married and singles are tempted to masturbate. As a general rule, men get carried away more than women, the young more than the old, and singles more than married people. For many it is a daily addiction and ruling passion. What does Scripture say about it? Unfortunately the Bible has no clear word. Some would say that Paul's command, "possess your body in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust" refers to masturbation, and therefore we should abstain from it. That may be true.

Then there is the biblical principle that self-gratification and self-centeredness withdraw us from God who is the Source of our joy. The more we become absorbed in ourselves, the more we alienate ourselves from the Lord. Such self-absorption produces depression and misery. So the person who daily immerses himself in narcissistic activities is going to end up depressed and unhappy. That is what self-centeredness does. It cannot be avoided. In contrast, to be Christ-centered is true joy.

Total abstention from masturbation is most likely the ideal. However, let us qualify this. Complete self-restraint is rarely achieved among Christians. This is simply the reality of a powerful bodily drive. Many fine Christians down through the ages have been consumed with guilt due to their shortcomings on this matter, perhaps overly consumed with guilt. Consequently, my advise to those who ask is this: Married people should avoid masturbation entirely. Your spouse should be able to fulfill your needs.

For unmarried people I recommend you avoid frequent masturbation, it will distance you from the Lord and make you miserable. Try refraining, but if you cannot meet the goal of total abstinence, try to limit your masturbation to once a week or so. As much as possible, let us strive to "possess our vessels in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God." "

I think this is a better way to teach on masturbation rather than say it's a sin... which can add with it a lot of guilt.

I'd also check and see if the Episcopal church has a policy on circumcision. I'm assuming that it is not required... which gives you more credence as well. I really think that this is something that she should at least talk with her husband about... or perhaps a Priest/Reverend/Vicar? (Not sure which term Episcopalians use.)

[Aura_Kitten]

:Puke



the idea that anyone in this day and age could possibly espouse such an outdated, incorrect, Victorian-era thought process is extremely disturbing to me.


further, EVERY male i've known who has been circumcised masturbates a TON, and the few i've known who are intact hardly do it at all. just for what it's worth.....


this is just so... absurd. this is indeed the original reason that circumcision was made routine in the United States (that and cornflakes ~ yes really!!) but.... oh my goodness. it's so hard for me to accept that people are willing to mutilate their children so they won't masturbate.

that, AND the idea that masturbation is inherently wrong. geez. talk about giving your kids a complex.


ETA ~ WHOOoaooaaaaaaa hadn't read past the original post... .... and now that i have ~~~ i'm even more sickened. it's 2007 by the way. can we all please get over our bodily hangups and realize that pleasurable things aren't evil? or at least, stop teaching children to feel ashamed and Bad and Wrong and Evil about it--? the fact that * I * was taught those things was a huge contributing factor to MAJOR psychological and emotional issues while i was growing up and it took YEARS for me to become comfortable with sexual partners, and even with MYSELF, along with a lengthy bit of counseling as well.

[Cassiopeia]

Originally Posted by umsami

BTW, here's a sermon from an Episcopal church that deals with masturbation.
http://www.stlukesrec.org/sermons_20..._christian.htm

Just want to point out that that is a "reformed" Episcopal church.

[lastrid]

If a reformed Episcopal church has no (or not much of an) issue with it, a TEC aligned church will not either.

[Cassiopeia]

Originally Posted by lastrid

If a reformed Episcopal church has no (or not much of an) issue with it, a TEC aligned church will not either.

I thought they had a big issue with it!

[ChasingPeace]

The sermon Umsami posted is from an out of the mainstream congregation that has apparently broken away from the Episcopal church and is seemingly very focused on sexual issues. Check this out (also on their website):

RESOLVED, that we, the forty-sixth General Council of the Reformed Episcopal Church, reaffirm the biblical standard given for the well being of society:

1. That sexual intercourse should take place only between a man and a woman who are married to each other.

2. That fornication, adultery, and homosexual acts are sinful in all circumstances.

3. That Christian leaders are called to be exemplary in all spheres of morality, including sexual morality, as a condition of being appointed or remaining in office.

4. That the Church is called upon to show Christ-like compassion to those who have fallen into sexual sin, encouraging them to repent and receive forgiveness, and offering the ministry of healing to all who suffer physically or emotionally as a result of such sin.

http://www.stlukesrec.org/resolutions.htm