beyond attachment parenting - Page 3

[Alexander]

sueami

You are a naughty girl to put so many multiple posts! Do you think we don't know that it is to rack up your total?



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[Alexander]

Sueami

You are a naughty girl to put so many multiple posts! Do you think we don't know that it is to rack up your total?



Dammit

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[Alexander]

Sueami

Dammit

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[kimmysue2]

Ugh none of them. But then again ask me in 15 years.

[Momtwice]

sueami wrote:

ultimately, it comes down to a gut check for me

Can I just say this is 99.99 % of the battle. Two thumbs up!!!!!!

how do i feel when i parent my child in this way -- do i feel conflicted, angry, anxious and frustrated with them or do i feel connected, joyous and loving. for me, this style of parenting *once i get past my internal objections that are voiced again and again in the threads above* helps me to see my children more clearly as the beings that they are and that opens up a wellspring of love for me. i can tell that they feel more connected to me too, with spontaneous expressions of love and kindness.

i spent much time asking myself...what do i observe in my own children?
i've explored parenting them with more rules and limits and how that affected them and me and our experience of the day. i've come to the conclusion that with my children and the personalities they have exhibited so far, they do very well if i let them develop self-discipline with a lot of feedback from me.

Well you certainly sound like an awesome mom to me.

And some children may ALWAYS thrive best on self discipline.
For instance have you heard of the Sudbury Valley School model:
(something I read about it Mothering)

http://www.sudval.org/

I guess it's basicallly a school for unschoolers if that makes sense.

[sueami]

alexander, you're a nut!

momtwice, i *have* read about that place! i love it. the friends who gave me the continuum concept talked about how they wanted to start a sudbury type school out here... i don't think there's enough demand for it where we are, though...
and thanks for being such a good listener/responder. i needed just this sort of positive feedback!

[sunbaby]

sorry i have only read about half the posts, hope i am not totally out of context at this point, i just have to respond even though i ought to be sleeping, or at least showering- darn sueami and her compelling threads.
i voted for half of the choices. i cant really MAKE dd do anything, but i do present some things in such a way that there are not options. it can be done gently and cheerfully as in *hooray! that was a fun bath, now it is time to brush your teeth* and so long as we have established a routine, there isnt a battle over it. (i should mention that dd is only 2.5, so what lies ahead i cannot predict) there have been plenty of times when i have failed to incorporate an important element into our routine, and then we have sorta had to fight it out- letting her know why we must do this thing so it doesnt just seem like arbitrary cruelty- and so the message of love is not lost- by 'fight ot out', i mean talk and talk and be sympathetic to her protests, sometimes i physically hold her, say for diaper changes or teeth brushing, but lightly enough that if she struggles hard i let go and we talk some more or wait a few minutes until she's ready, which has so far always worked. it seems like once she knows she will be set free if she totally cant handle it, then she is ok with it. i see that she is more secure and better off with some firm rules in place- i was raised more or less w/o them, or wishy washy ones anyway, and it didnt do me much good.

and yes oh yes i totally believe in treating the underlying cause of/ feelings behind a behavior rather than just the symptom.

some folks here have already mentioned it- we go with what works for the family as whole, not just one person. that means if dd flips out about going somewhere- it is probably not important enough for me to force it. (when she is older i will push for *fulfilling obligations*.) but it also means that if she cries about getting into the backpack, i still put her in, because i need to hike for my emotional health, and that will ultimately impact her more than a hike she'd rather not take. i am the mom- i see long range consequences that she cannot predict.

[MamaSoleil]

Originally posted by Sparklemom:

Interestingly some people criticize this type of parenting as "lazy" or "easy" which i find laughable! it reminds me of the parents who let their baby cry it out who accuse those of us who would never let our babies cry it out as doing the "easy" thing by tending to our child's needs. kwim

I could not agree more with that statement!!!

Momtwice~I only have one child so far, another enroute (), Soleil will be 4 in three wks. So far, I have used this method of parenting. Mindful parenting, I like to call it. When an issue arises, I ask myself, Is this morally threatening? Is this life-threatening? If not, then I just don't make an issue of it, even though I would much rather Soleil not wear that 1981 polka dot dress that she loves so much :
I think those two questions will get me thru late childhood and adolescence as well. I choose my battles, so that when I say "NO", Soleil knows I did not reach that decision quickly, that I have thought it thru, and though she is encouraged to ask why, once I've said no, it stands.
Many of my friends constantly say no, it's their reaction, almost instinct. When their child asks WHY the answer is no, I can tell they don't really know, and will say something like "Because I said so, that's why.". That is not satisfying, and if they truly thought about why they said no, they might just realize that the child's request is really not that big a deal, and that they really mean yes, but then the child learns that no doesn't always mean no...Sorry if i"ve wandered OT here,

Peacefully,

Mamasoleil

[alexa07]

I read a fascinating study. It said that the part of the brain used in excersing judgment develops very late in life (like after age 18.) I believe that this is definitely true. IMHO kids can't be treated as "mini-adults" who should be making the same decisions adults make. They just don't have the judgment.

[sparklemom]

Funny there had to be a "study" to prove that. And then on the other hand our society promotes pushing "independence" at the expense of natural emotional needs. Children/babies are too often expected to behave like 'mini-adults'---when they're not...they're beautiful young creatures entitled to a respect for their natural developement.


"When an issue arises I ask myself 'is this morally threatening? Is this life threatening? If not, then I just don't make an issue of it,..." Exactly!

[Tanibani]

Originally posted by alexa07
I read a fascinating study. It said that the part of the brain used in excersing judgment develops very late in life (like after age 18.) I believe that this is definitely true. IMHO kids can't be treated as "mini-adults" entitled to make the same decisions adults make. They just don't have the judgment.

That is profound. Because if this study is true (I think so) then Dr. Laura is right... kids should not be allowed to date until they are 18. (That's one of her rant & raves.) Perhaps not even allowed to drive...

[alexa07]

I think we would all probably be safer if we didn't drive until we were 18.

[Greaseball]

Wow, all this describes my ideal parenting philosophy; the one I would follow if only I weren't so darn impatient!

I said yes to the food thing - we don't have scheduled eating times, she nurses when she wants to, and if she doesn't want what is put before her I will get her something else. She also gets to eat anything I am eating that she asks for.

The sleep thing, I did not check. She usually goes to bed at the same time each night because dh and I want our "adult time."

We don't spank but we do send her to her room when she screams at us or when she hits or scratches.

She doesn't talk yet (is about 18 mos) so no need for politeness. We just ask that she not scream.

We only make her brush her teeth when she has candy or soda. (That food thing again - whatever she wants!) Normally she likes it.

If she doesn't want to go to the park we just take her home, but we do have people baby-sit and she doesn't always want to be away from us.

I try to leave her at home when shopping. She gets bored so easily.

If I do have to take her to the store, I always buy her a box of cookies. I mean, she didn't ask to come along, so I should do something nice for her. I don't believe in saying no unless there is a good reason. Since I buy everything dh and I want when we're at the store, why not a treat for dd as well?

She hasn't been afraid of the doctor yet. She doesn't like shots but we just make the best of it - we use EMLA and then give her some ice cream.

But, thanks for the poll! It has inspired me to do better.

[sueami]

okay, *totally* off-topic here. not that anyone is in the least bit interested in this bit of self-involved blather. (except you, lizajanesmom )
i originally posted something in this space saying i was going to stretch my boundaries in the area of being afraid to debate with people i don't know and feel safe with and that i wanted to argue with this study about being able to make judgements.
and i made my little argument and then i logged off.
and i sat there feeling uncomfortable, and i tried to figure out what it was about. and after i while i came up with this -- that i have clung to the untrue belief for a long time that i am afraid of confrontation. and that believing that fiction involves believing in another untrue belief, that it is important to stand up for what you believe in.
in fact, it occurred to me, the most important thing is to be kind. period. and it felt wonderful to me to think that i don't have to be a wimp and i don't have to stand up for my thoughts and beliefs either. i just have to be kind.
we are all going to believe what makes sense to us and it is not kind to tell someone that you think they are wrong. maybe they are. maybe they aren't. maybe someday they'll ask me if i think they're wrong, and then i can tell them what i think. maybe someday i'll change my mind about thinking they're wrong. maybe someday i'll realize it was all quite irrelevant.
and why am i telling you all this? i have no idea. probably because i can't figure out how to make the damn delete post button work and i didn't want to leave just an empty post sitting there for all to wonder what i said and repented.
so, carry on with your usual discussions...
warmly,
susan

[MamaSoleil]

we are all going to believe what makes sense to us and it is not kind to tell someone that you think they are wrong. maybe they are. maybe they aren't. maybe someday they'll ask me if i think they're wrong, and then i can tell them what i think. maybe someday i'll change my mind about thinking they're wrong. maybe someday i'll realize it was all quite irrelevant.

This is my daily struggle exactly. I parent differently than a lot of aquaintances and even my sister. But unless they ask me my opinion, I do not push my ideal onto them. Am I right, or are they right? Guess we will find out in about 15 yrs. Until then, I will continue to follow my instincts! The best I can do right?

Mamasoleil

[Mallory]

It said that the part of the brain used in excersing judgment develops very late in life (like after age 18.) I believe that this is definitely true.

I am not saying that 3 year olds always have the best judgement, but I think that the prolonged dependance on adults that children in this soceity have is not good. For most of human history after about the age of 14 or so most children were considered adults. They were considered to have the same abilities, judgement, resposibilites, ect of any other adult. I think that it is our society that "tells" highschoolers and college kids that thier thoughts, actions, beliefs don't make a difference and that they shouldn't be mature or resposible yet. I mean there are so many things that you are not resposible enough to do until 18 or 21 or 25, why bother.

I believe that children (and teenagers and young adults) live up to your expectations. It is clear in our society we don't expect resposiblilty from 18 year olds.

[Mommiska]

It's been very interesting reading this thread. I've agreed with a little bit of what almost everyone has said. (which probalby just means I'm a very confused parent, right?).

My two children are young (3.5 years and 2 years), so we do a lot of 'guiding'...but essentially, we do want our children to make decisions for themselves. Although as I said before, I do think that children need to be aware that their decisions impact on other people, and that needs to be taken into account.

As our children get older, dh and I are committed to parenting in a 'democratic' fashion...i.e., when there are problems, sitting down together to figure out a solution that works for ALL of us. I'm wondering how this fits in with those of you who checked all of the boxes - is that how you see yourself parenting/how you parent?

This is already beginning to work with my oldest. When she's upset about something, we talk about it and try to come up with a workable 'solution' (that's her new favourite word). She needs a bit of guidance, but has come up with some good ideas on her own...

I would think that as kids get older, the ideas will flow faster. And even if they don't always flow as fast as we would like, I do think it is important to give our kids responsibility for coming up with their own solutions to problems, rather than imposing them from above. With helpful/necessary parental guidance, of course.

[Greaseball]

I think children of all ages are far more intelligent and capable than we will ever be able to measure. Likewise, adults often do not make the best decisions either. Children may run into the street, while adults drink and drive. It is because adults are not making the right choices that children are not allowed in the street!

My goal is also democratic parenting. I don't think it works now since dd can't talk but when she does I think it will be a lot easier. Like if she wants something different to eat or to wear, now all she can do is cry about it so it's easy to get frustrated and say "OK, one more new food or clothing change and that's it!"

[hydrangea]

Originally posted by alexa07
I read a fascinating study. It said that the part of the brain used in excersing judgment develops very late in life (like after age 18.) I believe that this is definitely true. IMHO kids can't be treated as "mini-adults" who should be making the same decisions adults make. They just don't have the judgment.

I'd be interested in seeing this study.

My personal feeling is that 18 and 21 are arbitrary ages to create laws around and they create lots of problems. As Mallory said, historically humans have become adults closer to 14. Now we have young adults in school and requiring parental permission for just about anything that is actually legal for them. Imagine what society might be like if the government put their trust in parents and parents put their trust in their children. I personally believe we would see a decrease in many of the problems surrounding teens today.

I'd love to see another study that compares the results of that study to the judgment in teens who have been given more freedom by their parents and perhaps their government. Some countries do allow young adults much more freedom.

[Dar]

I'd like to see the study, too... I know of theories of development that posit that, but no studies.

I ws interested in MomTwice's post (since my kid is 10 . I think the message I send is not so much "Do what you want", but more "Do what you want, but I will feel free to give you my opnion about it, and if you chose something I feel is really unwise I will try to be there in case you wind up in trouble". What feels scary to a kid, I think, is to feel like you're all alone making decisions. I think there's a way to be with your child, without imflicting your will upon them. I'm not sure if I'd even say "guide", because that sounds like steering, and she steers... I advise, I guess. I talk about my experiences, and share my thoughts. I'm there...

Dar