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Air travel with Britax Marathon?? - Page 2

post #21 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
OK- travel with carseat questions 101: How do you lug them around the airport?
We have a GoGoKidz that attaches to the carseat and then you just wheel it around. Let me see if I can find a link...

GoGoKidz Travelmate

DS likes to pull his own.

**

I've been reading this thread with interest since we have a 13 hour flight coming up shortly. We're planning on using the carseat. It's a long flight, though... : The carseat worked well on our most recent flight - 5 hours. DS slept the majority of the time.
post #22 of 54
I use bungee cords and strap it to my stroller. I have had my infant in a sling, then when he was a toddler in the actual seat.
post #23 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
OK- travel with carseat questions 101: How do you lug them around the airport?

We didn't use one when we flew with ds1 as a toddler.
I've done this quite alot with both kids and I put DD (DS when he was little before DD was born) in a sling or Ergo, use a backpack for a diaper bag/carry-on, and bring a stroller to put the carseat on. Usually after I gate check the stroller someone will see me struggling with baby and carseat and help me get it onto the plane (never a flight attendant though- they just stand there and watch me struggle- it's always a fellow flyer who helps me).
post #24 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiValleySteph View Post

I've been reading this thread with interest since we have a 13 hour flight coming up shortly. We're planning on using the carseat. It's a long flight, though... : The carseat worked well on our most recent flight - 5 hours. DS slept the majority of the time.
This is why I started this thread- cause she slept for about 6 hours then was going nuts for the other 8 because the seat was so big she couldn't move around.
post #25 of 54
Quote:
This is why I started this thread- cause she slept for about 6 hours then was going nuts for the other 8 because the seat was so big she couldn't move around.
Yeah, well it could have been the opposite as well. She could have been awake for more hours because she was uncomfortable, and then drove you crazy moving around and being cranky. Besides, it's not like kids can move around much on planes anway!
post #26 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moochie Mamma View Post
This is why I started this thread- cause she slept for about 6 hours then was going nuts for the other 8 because the seat was so big she couldn't move around.
When's your flight back? I might have time to learn more from your experience!

We've flown without the carseat before and it was fine. I actually like having the carseat, though, usually, because DS will sleep in it very well and doesn't mind sitting in it. But - our longest flight with the carseat was 5 hours (4 of those with carseat, all went fine).

If the carseat was a big PITA, I would just check it. We've checked ours before (including on the same 13 hour flight when DS was a baby).

Do you think it would fit on the floor between the seats? So like if your DC got tired of sitting in it, you could unbuckle it and wedge it down their so your DC has room to spread out? That's what I'm thinking about. I still think we'll bring ours on board since DC sleeps well in it. Hmmm... dilemmas!
post #27 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiValleySteph View Post
When's your flight back? I might have time to learn more from your experience!

We've flown without the carseat before and it was fine. I actually like having the carseat, though, usually, because DS will sleep in it very well and doesn't mind sitting in it. But - our longest flight with the carseat was 5 hours (4 of those with carseat, all went fine).

If the carseat was a big PITA, I would just check it. We've checked ours before (including on the same 13 hour flight when DS was a baby).

Do you think it would fit on the floor between the seats? So like if your DC got tired of sitting in it, you could unbuckle it and wedge it down their so your DC has room to spread out? That's what I'm thinking about. I still think we'll bring ours on board since DC sleeps well in it. Hmmm... dilemmas!

Our flight is this Saturday- I'll post again after it to let you know what we did and how it went. There definitely wasn't room on the floor to put the seat- the plane was so cramped that at one point I tried to find my shoe on the floor and had to actually lay down in the aisle and reach my arm down where my feet were to reach it cause there was no space to even reach down to get it since the seat in front of me was so close. You'd think the airlines would give you a little more leg room, especially on the long international flights (then again I'm 5'11'' so I'd need alot more leg room!).
post #28 of 54
I agree that car seats are safer. I also agree that they are a big PITA. If it were me on a 14 hour flight I wouldn't bring in onboard, especially if it made the flight there harder than it needed to be. Someone mentioned not being able to move about on a plane, but if there isn't a car seat they can stand in their seat, move around, sit on the floor in front of their chair, etc, which is what my kids did last summer. Good luck with your decision. You are WAY braver than I am, I would never dare attempt a 14 hour flight with a young child. I just turned down Hawaii because it was 8 hours!
post #29 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
OK- travel with carseat questions 101: How do you lug them around the airport?

We didn't use one when we flew with ds1 as a toddler.

We have this. You can wheel it like a suitcase or wear it as a backpack. We have the Britax Marathom and even I was able to wear it as a backpack when I traveled alone with DD when I was 38 weeks (yes-38 weeks!) preggo.
post #30 of 54
I see these travelling babes and toddler car seat questions posted all the time, and have never had occassion to read one before... But NOW we are going to Hawaii, (6 hrs?) with dd who will be 31 mo. I was SO excited that the car rental place would provide a car seat, and I wouldn't have to lug that thing through airport and onto the plane, or check it and have it wrecked.

This thread has me wondering if we shouldn't bring it after all.

So, here are my ponderings:
  • it strikes me that the function of a car seat is to protect the baby/toddler from the effects of a collision, in a car (car-seat). seems like the thing would be so bulky and outta place, and uncomfortable on a plane...
  • these effects are things like being ejected from the car due to the forces involved in impact, wind-shield, over-head, etc...
  • anything that would cause those kinda forces on a PLANE would likely be more perilous than turbulence...
  • that kinda peril is major, and most likely, most of us wouldn't survive, so carseat or no, if the plane is goin' down, it's goin' down...
  • do 'they' make PLANE-seats? that protect against the effects experienced aboard aircraft; turbulence, or what-not, and are light-weight and easy to use?
  • would the regular seatbelt protect satisfactorily against the effects of turbulence? (someone made mention of toddlers flying around the cabin in the event of significant turbulence... what would my toddler be doing that I couldn't restrain her myself if there was significant turbulence? that gave me imagery of her just walking around alone up the aisle; pilots are generally aware of and announce turbulence as the plane passes into weather patterns that'd cause it, so one would have time to get belted in, to seat or car-seat, no?...)
  • lugging the car seat around isn't just a pita, it might be a financial thing as well, does the air line charge for additional checked baggage?
  • how will dd sleep? better stretched out with the arm up between two seats with her travel pillow and a blanet, or in her car-seat where she sleeps well on car-trips?
  • I wonder if OP could ship her car-seat home, and rent a smaller lighter one from a car rental co. and drop it off at the airport she arrives in? is that kooky?

Thing is, I dunno if it can be generalized as strictly a safety issue, given all the data... so it seems like it's more about whether or not (for some) they wanna deal with lugging it around, etc, in the name of some imagined safety standard (not speaking about car-safety, it's just that when car-seats became the norm, and laws were put into place for obvious reasons, I don't think PLANE safety was considered and car seats don't seem well-fitted to air-travel... Britax needs to make a PLANE-seat.)
post #31 of 54
Have you ladies seen this product? It looks ingenious. Unfortunately it's about $70+ ?

http://www.kidsflysafe.com/

It's a harness.
Quote:
CARES (for “Child Aviation
Restraint System”) is an innovative belt-and-buckle harness
safety device that attaches directly to the airplane seat belt. It is the first
alternative airplane child safety system to be certified by the FAA
for all phases of flight – taxiing, take off, turbulence and landing.
The CARES airplane safety restraint harness is for children
between 22 and 44 pounds, and sitting in their own seat. CARES
weighs only 1 pound and installs in just 1 minute!
Quote:
On August 14, 2006, the FAA Rule permitting CARES to be brought on board planes by parents became effective. On August 30, 2006, CARES was certified for use on all United States commercial and private aircraft. The FAA notes that CARES is the only alternative to an FAA-certified car seat permitted on planes for children who weigh between 22 and 44 pounds sitting in their own seats.
I personally don't bring the carseats on board (we fly from California to East Coast once or twice a year.) Too much of a hassle and then my preschooler won't sit in it anyway, wasting valuable real estate space (that seat.)

I usually check it in at the gate (and risk damage).

The last time I rented a car seat in Hawaii, I got an old car seat and my firstborn son was miserable in it. I learned my lesson and I take my own car seat (the ones my kids are used to) so they are more comfortable.

My girlfriend just borrowed my Britax Roundabout (2001 - it's old and it's my back-up) so she wouldn't have to lug her Marathon for a plane trip.

I did recently purchase a folding car seat (very heavy, with latch, can't remember the name) in case I want to travel with something, I can take that.

I found this online.

Safer Airplane Travel with Babies & Toddlers
post #32 of 54
britax car seats are FAA approved for plane travel as are many others. Do you honestly think I just lug a car seat around an airplane and airport for the heck of it? It is not for some "imagined" safety standard. Turbulence is NOT always announced by the pilots. Plane seats are CPR's, child passenger restraints (the very same car seats you use in a car that are approved by the FAA). A crash is a crash, BUT turbulence is turbulence and it does kill and it does injure. Also, emergency landings can kill and injure. In those cases, a child passenger restraint would help a great deal. I have not found my child's restraint to be bulky and out of place on a plane, it was the safest way for him to fly on an airplane, and so we did that. It wasn't so awful, but then we are prepared to make his flight as safe as we can. Most times on airplanes these days there are no extra seats available for folks to stretch out and use two seats to take a nap. Folks who try to do lap babies are in for a rude awakening when they end up strangers next to them who are less than pleased that they are sharing a row meant for 3 people with four people instead. Bringing a car seat along is not a financial burden, they are not counted as luggage usually, and I would never rely on a car rental place to give me a proper seat for my child. I took a train once, and forgot the seat, and tried getting one from the car rental place, they tried giving me an infant restraint for my 2 yo, then a booster, then a very old seat with no book or instructions on how to properly install it. I asked them to borrow a better seat from a competing company, and finally found a reasonable seat, but it was not ideal, and I will never do that again. Now I travel with our own seat. I hardly call your post data, if you want data, there is some below. The FAA, the NTSB, the AAP, and the NHTSA all recommend children to use child passenger restraints aboard airplanes.

http://www.otoh.org/opal/carseat.html

http://www.faa.gov/passengers/media/childsafety.pdf

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...t/flysmart.ppt
Traveling with children (From the FAA)
Quote:

The regulations allow that a child
�who has not reached their 2nd birthday MAY be held by an adult who is occupying a seat.
The same regulation allows for the child to be in an approved child restraint system (CRS)
A child who is held by an adult has less protection in an accident than any piece of galley equipment on that airplane

In an accident occupants typically experience 20g's or 20 times their weight
A 20 pound child will react with a moving force of 400 pounds - there is no way you will be able to hold on to them
Strapping them into your seat belt will cause them to sustain fatal internal injuries and is illegal

The only option is to put them into an approved CRS
What's NOT approved
Booster seats
Vest / Harness-type CRS's
Belt-positioning booster seats
Belly belts

�Approved CRS's have a label that states:
�This restraint is certified for use in motor vehicles and aircraft�
If your child is:
Under 20 LBS - use a rear facing CRS
20 to 40 LBS - use forward facing CRS
Over 40 LBS - use the seat belt with no CRS

Ask airline if they offer a discounted fare for a child traveling in a CRS
A CRS should be placed in a window seat so it will not block the escape path
CRS�s will not be allowed in an Exit Row
Check the width of your CRS, if wider than 16 inches is unlikely to fit into a coach seat

If you do not purchase a ticket for your child, check with the airline and avoid flights during their busiest times
In many cases the airlines will allow you to use a CRS in an empty seat without having to pay a fare, however check with the airline for their policy regarding an empty seat, prior to booking the flight
From the AAP http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...s%3b108/5/1218
Quote:
In a study comparing persons fatally injured in aircraft in 1980 and 1990, blunt injury (in particular, head injury) from deceleration forces was the most important threat to survival. Head injuries were listed as the immediate cause of death in 33% of those younger than 15 years. As with other forms of transportation, effective restraint systems decrease the probability of head injury.

Turbulence is the leading cause of nonfatal injuries to aircraft passengers and flight attendants. From 1981 through 1997, there were 342 reports of turbulence affecting major airlines. Three passengers died, 80 had serious injuries, and 769 had minor injuries.

A child on the lap of an adult cannot be effectively restrained in a motor vehicle or aircraft crash. A child who travels on the lap of another occupant or unrestrained in a motor vehicle has a substantially greater risk of injury and death, compared with a restrained child. Hazards associated with the on-lap position are also well documented in aircraft crash investigations. Three children on the laps of adults were fatally injured and others nonfatally injured in the 1987 crash in Denver, CO, the 1989 crash in Sioux City, IA, and the 1994 crash in Charlotte, NCwhich were all caused by turbulence. The NTSB has reported 2 crashes in which CSSs were used and provided protection to children
post #33 of 54
Thread Starter 

Update

We're home and chose not to bring the seat on the plane. I am planning to go to Target and buy a smaller, lightweight seat for future air travel. Here's why:

1. DD was not able to sleep stretched out between us well, nor on my lap. She woke every 20 min or so crying and needing to nurse and get more comfy. In her carseat on the way to Aus she slept great since she's used to her seat and it kept her from rolling around. I now have to go see the chiropractor tomorrow cause my back is messed up from holding a sleeping toddler in a strange position for several hours.

2. There was some turbulence and they asked us to put on seat belts. She did NOT want any part of the plane seat belt. Had it been her carseat I don't think she would have complained too much since she's used to it.

3. Our car seat didn't make it on the final leg of our flight so we were left at the airport without a seat to get her home in. Luckily the airline had a spare (crappy but better than nothing) which they lent us but if they hadn't we would have been SOL.

4. Rental car seats suck!

I now think it's worth the hassle of carrying a lightweight carseat through the airport to ensure the child is safe not only on the plane but that you have your carseat when you arrive to where you're going.

I would buy one of the CARES harnesses but we live in a small town with a small airport. All of the flights out of here are either prop planes or very small jets that have seats that are not compatible with the harness. The reason is that the tray on the back of the seat is inset in the seat so if the harness was installed it would interfere with the tray being able to close.

Hope this helps!!!
post #34 of 54
I had no idea so many people used car seats on planes for toddlers. Granted I don't fly much now, but I flew all the time growing up and in my pre-kid adult years, and I rarely encountered turbulence. I guess I don't understand why it's so much safer (since most crashes would result in death for everyone), or at least safer enough to the degree that it's worth the pita. Though I can see those stats up above. It's just that ime the child being restless chance is like, 100% (have only flown once with him though), and ime the turbulence chance is not so high.

Although I am passing on a weekend trip with the kids, b/c there's way no way I"m going to rely on the rental carseats or put my 4yo in a booster, and the trip and carseat lugging and hotel issues and everything doesn't seem worth it to me (call me lazy). So I can respect the striving for safety thing. But I still don't know if i'd use them on the plane.
post #35 of 54
Moochie Mamma ,

Thank you so much for your update! Glad you all made it back safely. Sorry it was a rough trip!

It definitely helps and we will be bringing our carseat on board. (We have both a Marathon & a Roundabout and we travel with the Roundabout.) Our 13 hour flight is next Tuesday!
post #36 of 54
I haven't flown internationally, but have made several flights with babies/toddlers within the US. My observations:

*the airline wants you to check the carseat.
*the flight attendents are not happy to have to deal with you getting a bulky car seat to fit in the small airplane seats.
*ditto on any passengers who may be sitting near you - although in my experience, the car seat must be on the window so as not to restrict anyone getting out in case of emergency, but of course, you will be in the middle seat next to the car seat. However, the person in front of you cannot recline because the car seat and/or toddler's legs/feet are in the way.
*actually getting you, the toddler, the carseat, the luggage, your carryons, etc. from your car to the airplane is a nightmare. If you have more than one adult, it isn't as bad - but I'd never take a car seat if I was the only adult. Been there, done that - ugh.
*almost no one takes car seats. Every time I've flown with kids, my kids are the only ones on the plane that have car seats.

I can appreciate the "my kid is going to be as safe as possible/I'm going to prepare for every possibility/will deal with any amount of stress to make that happen" argument. I thought that way too - when I had only one kid.

On the flip side, I can imagine that the rental car car seats leave quite a bit to be desired. And that many kids would sleep better in their car seat. So IF I were to take a car seat on a plane (I really don't think I'll ever do this again - dd3 is almost four), I'd buy/borrow something small/lightweight. NO WAY that my Britax Wizards are going on a plane... Honestly, the seat next to it would have only partial room, and we all know that you are squeezed in as it is.
post #37 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwebbal View Post
britax car seats are FAA approved for plane travel as are many others. Do you honestly think I just lug a car seat around an airplane and airport for the heck of it? It is not for some "imagined" safety standard. Turbulence is NOT always announced by the pilots. Plane seats are CPR's, child passenger restraints (the very same car seats you use in a car that are approved by the FAA). A crash is a crash, BUT turbulence is turbulence and it does kill and it does injure. Also, emergency landings can kill and injure. In those cases, a child passenger restraint would help a great deal. I have not found my child's restraint to be bulky and out of place on a plane, it was the safest way for him to fly on an airplane, and so we did that. It wasn't so awful, but then we are prepared to make his flight as safe as we can. Most times on airplanes these days there are no extra seats available for folks to stretch out and use two seats to take a nap. Folks who try to do lap babies are in for a rude awakening when they end up strangers next to them who are less than pleased that they are sharing a row meant for 3 people with four people instead. Bringing a car seat along is not a financial burden, they are not counted as luggage usually, and I would never rely on a car rental place to give me a proper seat for my child. I took a train once, and forgot the seat, and tried getting one from the car rental place, they tried giving me an infant restraint for my 2 yo, then a booster, then a very old seat with no book or instructions on how to properly install it. I asked them to borrow a better seat from a competing company, and finally found a reasonable seat, but it was not ideal, and I will never do that again. Now I travel with our own seat. I hardly call your post data, if you want data, there is some below. The FAA, the NTSB, the AAP, and the NHTSA all recommend children to use child passenger restraints aboard airplanes.
:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirsten View Post
I haven't flown internationally, but have made several flights with babies/toddlers within the US. My observations:

*the airline wants you to check the carseat.
*the flight attendents are not happy to have to deal with you getting a bulky car seat to fit in the small airplane seats.
*ditto on any passengers who may be sitting near you - although in my experience, the car seat must be on the window so as not to restrict anyone getting out in case of emergency, but of course, you will be in the middle seat next to the car seat. However, the person in front of you cannot recline because the car seat and/or toddler's legs/feet are in the way.
*actually getting you, the toddler, the carseat, the luggage, your carryons, etc. from your car to the airplane is a nightmare. If you have more than one adult, it isn't as bad - but I'd never take a car seat if I was the only adult. Been there, done that - ugh.
*almost no one takes car seats. Every time I've flown with kids, my kids are the only ones on the plane that have car seats.

I can appreciate the "my kid is going to be as safe as possible/I'm going to prepare for every possibility/will deal with any amount of stress to make that happen" argument. I thought that way too - when I had only one kid.

On the flip side, I can imagine that the rental car car seats leave quite a bit to be desired. And that many kids would sleep better in their car seat. So IF I were to take a car seat on a plane (I really don't think I'll ever do this again - dd3 is almost four), I'd buy/borrow something small/lightweight. NO WAY that my Britax Wizards are going on a plane... Honestly, the seat next to it would have only partial room, and we all know that you are squeezed in as it is.
Just wanted to respond to a few things, as we've flow a lot over the last 2.5 years (DD took 22 flights by the time she was two).

*the airline wants you to check the carseat. Nope. Never had anyone with the airline tell me they wanted us to check the seat. In fact, we are always getting comments on how nice it is to see parents bringing the car seat on.
*the flight attendents are not happy to have to deal with you getting a bulky car seat to fit in the small airplane seats. Again, we've only ever had positive comments regarding the seat from airline employees. Flight attendants also go out of their way to assist us when necessary.
*ditto on any passengers who may be sitting near you - although in my experience, the car seat must be on the window so as not to restrict anyone getting out in case of emergency, but of course, you will be in the middle seat next to the car seat. However, the person in front of you cannot recline because the car seat and/or toddler's legs/feet are in the way. Nope. The seats always recline in front of us. Even in those little 50 person planes. If the seat were rear facing this may be an issue. Also, I always sit next to DD in the middle (as you said, they have to be in a window) so we've never been a bother to other passengers.
*actually getting you, the toddler, the carseat, the luggage, your carryons, etc. from your car to the airplane is a nightmare. If you have more than one adult, it isn't as bad - but I'd never take a car seat if I was the only adult. Been there, done that - ugh. I too did it when I was 38 weeks preggo with DD, so I can relate. Yep, it's a pain.
*almost no one takes car seats. Every time I've flown with kids, my kids are the only ones on the plane that have car seats. I have seen quite a few car seats on planes actually (I travel for business as well so tend to fly a bit). All of my IRL friends also travel w/ their car seats. I of course see as many lap babies.


Just my experience - I wanted to show the other side as well, for moms who may be on the fence about this issue. We've always had a very good experience with the car seats on planes. Granted, I usually fly with DH so that makes it easier. Alone is tough!
post #38 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
I had no idea so many people used car seats on planes for toddlers. Granted I don't fly much now, but I flew all the time growing up and in my pre-kid adult years, and I rarely encountered turbulence. I guess I don't understand why it's so much safer (since most crashes would result in death for everyone), or at least safer enough to the degree that it's worth the pita. Though I can see those stats up above. It's just that ime the child being restless chance is like, 100% (have only flown once with him though), and ime the turbulence chance is not so high.
I travel for business quite often and I experience turbulance on almost every flight I take. Usually it is very minor and doesn't last long though. I will tell you that I have been in such severe turbulance that I don't think I would've been able to hold onto a baby or toddler to keep them from flying up and hitting the ceiling of the plane. It's so scary and it came on out of the blue, with no notice at all. This is why we fly with a car seat. JME...
post #39 of 54
Quote:
Though I can see those stats up above. It's just that ime the child being restless chance is like, 100% (have only flown once with him though), and ime the turbulence chance is not so high.
I said it earlier and I don't mean to say I told her so, but the OP talked about how her daughter was restless on her 14 hour flight and slept for only 6 hours, so she didn't take the car seat, and her daughter barely slept. I pointed out before that return flight that perhaps it might end up being that way, that without a car seat a child would be less likely to sleep. Now OP, I don't say that to be rude or "I told you so", I appreciate the fact that you had your experience and shared it with the board, and learned from it. I am grateful you did that. I know for my own son that would be the case, he knows he can fall asleep in his car seat, but regular sleeping would be harder for him on a plane out of a car seat. If a child is restless, you CAN take them for a little walk to the bathroom, or even take them out of their seat, but to not have that seat when you need it seems so short sighted. Turbulence DOES happen, and you might not think the chances are that high, BUT if if it did, what would you do then? Of course you could try the regular seat belt (if your child has a seat, lap babies would be at serious risk), but I personally would not rely on that. It just doesn't seem adequate for the extreme turbulence we are talking about, the kind I and the poster above me have experienced. I know I could not have held onto my child when we were dropping hundreds if not a couple thousand feet at a time.
post #40 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwebbal View Post
I said it earlier and I don't mean to say I told her so, but the OP talked about how her daughter was restless on her 14 hour flight and slept for only 6 hours, so she didn't take the car seat, and her daughter barely slept. I pointed out before that return flight that perhaps it might end up being that way, that without a car seat a child would be less likely to sleep.
That is ONE SINGLE case. Most kids do fine sleeping with a comfy pillow and blanket (we bring our own). My dd would be climbing the walls if we brought her car seat. And in my experience, watching dozens of other kids on international flights, so would they. You are giving all of this advice and you haven't even ever flown transatlantically (or pacifically) according to your past posts. Flying in the US and flying OUS are really two completely different animals with a whole different set of rules and completely different tricks that work. You are giving advice based on short flights (anything under 6 hours is short IMHO).
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