"Bring the WHOLE baby home..." - Page 2

[carriebft]

I AM trying to figure out why this type of whole vs. not whole debate goes on when I don't see it accomplishing anything but inflaming emotions.

WHole and Intact are two words I feel go well with this debate. They don't resort to "uncircumcised" or "non circumcised" which place the surgery in a kind of "normal" position. I feel these words should be embraced by inactivists because they embody the fight and give no mention of the surgery (and it deserves none).

Good luck with your new baby!!

[LavenderMae]

I think we need to state that intact is normal and when you circ your son you are choosing for him to no longer be whole or intact. I can see where it would make those who chose to circ uncomfortable but we need to stop normalising circ and our language should reflect that. In this culture I admit I'm damn proud my sons are whole. Goodness no an intact boy isn't worth more than a circed one , it's not even the circed boys fault his parent's made that choice for him.

[jessjgh1]

I think "Bring the whole baby home" is one of the 'nicest' ways that one can make a strong statement, if that makes sense.

Perhaps, I am wrong in that assumption?? If could have a siggie for other forums (I'd have to pay for them, so I don't, but one can wish) I'd probably choose this or 'Question circumcision' because I think they make the point without being too strong and this fits my personal style of debating/dialogue/information style then some of the stronger statements.

I think the implication of 'whole' is there, but not in a threatening way-- especially when (most often) the statement is tempered/supported by the post that has been writen, past posts, etc. Even when I want to 'give up' on a poster, I do try to keep in mind that others lurk and learn from the posts.

I find 'whole' usually has not brought up the same amount of passion as other words, like using "normal" to describe the intact penis or when words like "abuse" or "mutilate" pop up. But we all also have our own reasons for the language and style of debate.

Jessica

[aira]

Happy Birthing, jbpoetmom!! :

[majormajor]

i find myself agreeing that whole/not whole isn't the best way to argue against circumcision. i think when you're trying to change what in many places is a culturally ingrained mindset, you have to take care to not come off like a crazy radical. as soon as someone dismisses you as kooky, then they dismiss your entire argument.

i know i was swayed against circumcision by the facts--that it is unnecessary, painful, and can cause a host of problems throughout a man's life. i understand how the "wholeness" idea appeals to those of us who are already anti-circ. i just don't see how anyone who hasn't thought circ through yet, or who is pro-circ, is going to see that kind of discussion and decide circ is wrong.

i'd like to know if there are people swayed by a discussion of "wholeness," though. i've stayed away from that terminology, but if anyone's found it effective, maybe i'll give it a try.

[christifav]

Would you go up to a person who has only one arm and say that they are not a whole person, even if it was their own mistake or a mistake of another person (like a parent) that caused them to lose that arm?

My husband recently lost his foot. He is NOT whole. He is no less of a man (perhaps more of a man after what he's been through) but he is certainly not whole.

That said, I don't have my wisdom teeth, plenty of people have other stuff missing...like appendix, tonsils, uterus, breasts, etc. Are we not whole? I guess not. But of course most of us did not have those things removed when we were infants, and most times it is for good reason.

I can see how the word "whole" can be loaded with emotion for the parents who chose to circ their sons, but the truth is that their sons' left the hospital with less parts than they came with. If they truely think they were doing their sons' a favor, then to them, "whole" would be a bad thing, I think.

Yeah, its late...I probably didn't make any sense, sorry.

[jbpoetmom]

Thank you everyone for wrestling with the issue and not flaming me! It has helped me greatly with working though it myself. I am now sitting next to my whole yet not whole, perfect, happy, healthy, adorable son who is reading a book. My second son has again decided to wait to come into the world - the contractions have stopped . . .

Off to work!

[Galatea]

You know, wherever one goes on MDC, one may be offended or hurt by something said. It often happens in the bfing forums, where a mom who had to use formula for whatever reason gets all bent out of shape by the anti-formula talk there and starts defending herself and her reasons for ffing. And then the mods have to come and point out the bfing forums sticky about how we are in no way attacking you personally b/c everyone does the best they can at the time and if this makes you uncomfortable, then do not read here. We need the same sort of attitude here in this forum.

Peace.