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Why Is It Hypocrisy To Have Different Rules For Adults Than Children?? - Page 4

post #61 of 125


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Dd does not have a bedtime. She decides when to go to sleep. It is usually about the same time every night, but does sometimes vary. She gets plenty of sleep and it has not been a problem.
DS will not give in on his own -- we have tried only to have a meling down screaming tot .....

I am glad that works for your family.

I kinda liked the rules when i was growing up -- it meant something when i was old enough (read responible enought ) to do X Y or Z ---

Aimee
post #62 of 125
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Originally Posted by 2tadpoles View Post
I think the American "prohibition" mentality when it comes to alcoholic beverages is part of the reason things like this happen.
For me, it has nothing to do with "American Prohibition". I've lived and traveled for the past 15 years in Western Europe. Dh is European. It's a decision based on common sense... culture doesn't play one bit into it.

Dh's sister and cousins feel the same way as we do. They haven't immigrated like dh. Quit using culture as an excuse. It's a personal choice.
post #63 of 125
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Originally Posted by velochic View Post
For me, it has nothing to do with "American Prohibition". I've lived and traveled for the past 15 years in Western Europe. Dh is European.
Your point? The world is far larger than the USA and Western Europe.

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It's a decision based on common sense... culture doesn't play one bit into it.
Opinion are not facts. And what qualifies as "common sense" is something everyone disagrees on from time to time.

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Dh's sister and cousins feel the same way as we do. They haven't immigrated like dh. Quit using culture as an excuse.
Who are you to tell me what to do?

So you have people in your life who share your opinions. We all do. Big whoop.
post #64 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2tadpoles View Post
Your point? The world is far larger than the USA and Western Europe.



Opinion are not facts. And what qualifies as "common sense" is something everyone disagrees on from time to time.



Who are you to tell me what to do?

So you have people in your life who share your opinions. We all do. Big whoop.
Of course the world is larger. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't say it's an American affectation. It's not. Many people from many countries also find it foolish to introduce young children to dangerous things before they are capable of processing what they are doing. You have a right to your opinion, I have a right to mine. It's not because of where I was born, but the values with which I was raised.
post #65 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post
For me, it has nothing to do with "American Prohibition". I've lived and traveled for the past 15 years in Western Europe. Dh is European. It's a decision based on common sense... culture doesn't play one bit into it.

Dh's sister and cousins feel the same way as we do. They haven't immigrated like dh. Quit using culture as an excuse. It's a personal choice.
Culture as an excuse for what? Disagreeing with you?

Yes, it's a personal choice, and one that does not need to be excused to you or anyone else.
post #66 of 125
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Originally Posted by 2tadpoles View Post
I think that a very small serving of beer or wine is probably better for your body than a 20 oz. Mountain Dew.

I think the American "prohibition" mentality when it comes to alcoholic beverages is part of the reason things like this happen.
No kidding. I would be way happier with my kid drinking a glass of wine than a coke or other soda.
post #67 of 125
Just thought I'd add this in....

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Rhode Island General Laws

TITLE 3
Alcoholic Beverages
CHAPTER 3-8
Regulation of Sales
SECTION 3-8-11.1


§ 3-8-11.1 Furnishing or procurement of alcoholic beverages for underage persons. – (a) As used in this section: (1) "furnish" means to provide with, supply, give or purchase; (2) "procure" means to get possession of, obtain by particular care and effort; and (3) "permit" means to give permission for, approval of, possession or consumption of an alcoholic beverage by any form of conduct, that would cause a reasonable person to believe that permission or approval has been given.

(b) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (c) of this section it is unlawful for any person twenty-one (21) years of age or older: (1) to purchase from any licensee or any employee of a licensee any alcoholic beverage for the sale, delivery, service of or giving away to, any person who has not reached his or her twenty-first (21st) birthday; (2) to purchase from any licensee or any employee of any licensee any alcoholic beverage with the intent to cause or permit said alcoholic beverage to be sold, or given to any person who has not reached his or her twenty-first (21st) birthday; (3) to knowingly furnish any alcoholic beverage for the sale, delivery, service of or giving to any person who has not reached his or her twenty-first (21st) birthday; (4) to procure alcoholic beverages for the sale, delivery, service of or giving to any person who has not reached his or her twenty-first (21st) birthday; or (5) to otherwise permit the consumption of alcohol by underaged persons in his or her residence.

(c) This section does not apply to use, consumption or possession of alcoholic beverages by a minor for religious purposes; or to a parent or legal guardian procuring or furnishing alcohol to, or permitting the consumption of alcohol by, his or her minor child or ward.

(d) Any adult person who violates this section will be subject to the penalties provided in § 3-8-11.2.
I realize that just because something is legal doesn't necessarily make it a good idea. However, it obviously shows that it's not all that uncommon, especially within certain ethnic and cultural communities.
post #68 of 125
DH and I go around with this one all the time. I drink soda in front of my children, and I will not let them have a sip. DH says its a "double standard" - and I say *exactly*. Since when did children have all the privileges or responsibilities of an adult? Ther are certainly double standards!!
post #69 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post
I am assuming that those of you who think that very young children who are allowed a sip or two of alcohol would be fine to let your children also take a drag or two from a cigarette. No difference as far as I can tell.
Well I don't let my son have either, but I do see big differences between them, and differences between them and the occasional deep-fried potato (french fries).

French fries are not healthy if consumed to excess or in place of other healthier things, and there might be some concern about the effects of temperature and cooking oil in their preparation, although the science on that is still fairly out.

I think fries have gotten their bad rap because people have consumed them to excess and instead of other things, and also because restaurants and food companies have encouraged us to see them as the "usual side dish" rather than something eaten in moderation. But potatoes have been a staple of various peasant diets and some small amounts of oil are fine and really the combination is not, in my opinion, a scourge.

To me (and I realize this goes against the usual American thinking) wine is actually a fairly natural product that also contains alcohol. Because of the alcohol it's good to limit its consumption and not overindulge, but I see it first as social/cultural delicacy sort of beverage and secondly as a drug. When I drink wine it's a glass to be enjoyed for its complex flavours and as a part of the ritual of a fine meal, and I enjoy the warmth that the alcohol brings to it too. But I don't drink wine to get drunk, and I don't like to drink it to the point where I feel that way. (I'd probably drink gin to get drunk, if I did that sort of thing.)

I also think that yes, there are negative health effects to alcohol, especially in large quantities (of course you can go to an extreme and point out that too much water can kill you too) but most of these come from real overuse and not from a glass once or twice a week.

I sort of class it in my mind with things like honey and sugar cane - you don't really want to be having a lot of these things but it's not a manufactured product designed solely for the high.

Cigarettes I see as much more manufactured and containing a variety of substances that are worse than any social value it has (or may once have had; I don't think the post-dinner or post-sex cigarette without the addiction really exists any more, at least not outside say Quebec and France). I don't have family rituals that include them. And I tend to think that the health risks, not just cancer rates but effects on blood pressure and things, outweigh the rest.

So... I guess I got rambly but I really do see them as different things. It is really interesting how cultural these things are!
post #70 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post
It's not because of where I was born, but the values with which I was raised.
So which of your values concern the consumption of alcohol by minors? Is it because you think alcoholic drinks are unhealthy? So are many other things. Is it because they're mind-altering? Hell, I get a buzz off of Motrin. Is it a legality issue? As you can see, the laws vary from place to place.

I value informed decision-making. I'd rather my 15yo have a glass of wine in my home, supervised, so that he can see/feel what the effects are at a low level, than to go out with his friends at 17 or 18 and get sh*tf*ced in the woods because he doesn't know what his limit is.
post #71 of 125
Thread Starter 
DANG People! What has happened to my thread?? I was trying to bring up a general question about how is it bad for kids to have some rules that adults might not have, and people are focusing on french fries and wine!!!!

:

Yes, I guess that's what can happen to a thread....but I am still not seeing good reason for kids to not have some rules that may not apply to adults.

Can we get back on topic? Pretty please?
post #72 of 125
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DH says its a "double standard" - and I say *exactly*. Since when did children have all the privileges or responsibilities of an adult? Ther are certainly double standards!!
yep

and I add "Someday he will be the daddy and can have stuff the baby can't" call it a rite of passage or whatever.
post #73 of 125
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Originally Posted by choli View Post
Culture as an excuse for what? Disagreeing with you?

Yes, it's a personal choice, and one that does not need to be excused to you or anyone else.
No, culture as an excuse for giving a baby alcohol. It isn't a product of a cultural upbringing, which is what tadpole was saying. She said that it's the American "prohibition" attitude that keeps parents in the US from giving their kids alcohol... and it's not, IMHO. It's an individual family's choice no matter where they live. It's also a person's right to feel that giving alcohol to an 18 month old is dangerous. I've never said or implied that people need to excuse anything to me. (Gang mentality can be so fun, can't it, when you can't find a valid argument?) But if I disagree and you can't convince me otherwise, I have the right to maintain my original opinion. You can be as belligerent as you want to be, but it doesn't change the fact that there are people who consider giving a baby alcohol dangerous. Why would I even care what you do. I don't know you! If you want to give your baby alcohol, it's your prerogative. I'm here to express and defend my opinion in a civil manner.
post #74 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2tadpoles View Post
So which of your values concern the consumption of alcohol by minors? Is it because you think alcoholic drinks are unhealthy? So are many other things. Is it because they're mind-altering? Hell, I get a buzz off of Motrin. Is it a legality issue? As you can see, the laws vary from place to place.

I value informed decision-making. I'd rather my 15yo have a glass of wine in my home, supervised, so that he can see/feel what the effects are at a low level, than to go out with his friends at 17 or 18 and get sh*tf*ced in the woods because he doesn't know what his limit is.

We were never talking about 15 year olds consuming alcohol. We were talking about an 18 month old consuming alcohol!

Go back and read my posts. No, I don't think alcohol is unhealthy. A child's body is developing and growing. It needs different nutrients than an adult. Their brains are forming synapses and their muscles, bones, and organs are growing to support them the rest of their lives. As adults, we are decaying. Our job is to have a lifestyle to slow down the decay. So, a child's body is building up and an adult's body is breaking down. What we put into our bodies makes a difference at different stages of our live. So as an adult, an occasional glass of wine actually HELPS us. Our brains are done growing. For a child, whose brain (and dendrites, which are the actual parts of the brain that are affected by alcohol) is still developing, it probably isn't healthy. Same for fats, same for caffeine, same for proteins, etc. What may be okay for us to consume as an adult might not cause our bodies to break down any faster, but what a child consumes may cause them to not develop properly.

That all being said, I don't eat anything that I wouldn't give to dd. I do drink wine and diet soda, and no, she's not allowed to have it. I also have sex, drive, cross the street unaided, watch CSI, go outside alone, eat sushi and rare beef, and mow the lawn... all of which she is also not allowed to do.
post #75 of 125
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post #76 of 125
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Originally Posted by polka hop View Post
Sure! Ibuprofen, caffeine, alcohol, tobacco, Peruvian flake cocaine... all pretty much the same, as far as I'm concerned!

Ok, seriously? You can't discern the difference between a well known carcinogen and a sip of wine? I bet you can, but a setting up a straw man is somewhat more entertaining.
Well, that's my point... where do you draw the line? I guess it's at smoking cigarettes, according to your opinon. What is the line for others? Eating french fries, eating meat (vegetarians would probably have a strong opinion about the health affects of eating meat), drinking alcohol, smoking (where in some countries it's still considered... and was for many years in the US... to be healthy), taking man-made drugs instead of homeopathics?

My point is that, as adults, we have to consider the fact that perhaps what we do (an occasional cigarette is probably not going to kill you) isn't appropriate for children. For each family that's different.

I'm not trying to stir things up... I'm saying to each his own. For us... a baby drinking alcohol is not something we condone.
post #77 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by polka hop View Post
Sure! Ibuprofen, caffeine, alcohol, tobacco, Peruvian flake cocaine... all pretty much the same, as far as I'm concerned!

Ok, seriously? You can't discern the difference between a well known carcinogen and a sip of wine? I bet you can, but a setting up a straw man is somewhat more entertaining.
I try to avoid giving my child any form of mind-altering drugs, which all of those are except for ibuprofen.

Just my personal choice, though.

On the other hand, I also choose to set a good example of how people should live even as adults. I do not partake of mind-altering drugs, so there is, for me, no double standard.

I'm extremely well aware of the fact that every second of every day, I am teaching by example, how adults should live.

"I want to be just like you when I grow up."

I want my daughter to be just like me, too. Because I'm a person who leads the healthy life that I would WANT for my child.

I don't want to be telling my child, "Don't grow up to be like me."

So I don't do things that invite her to grow up to be someone who uses mind altering substances, who abuses their body, etc.

As a body builder, I do know the effect of "just a little bit" of alcohol on the body. It is NOT a healthy pursuit. It DOES have a negative effect on one's health.

Our children want to grow up to be like us. That's the truth of how children are. Whether you give them addictive and mind-altering substances or not... if you indulge in these sorts of things yourself and they know about it, they are thinking on AT LEAST an unconscious level, "I want to be just like mom and dad."

And they will... for better or for worse. With any luck, one day my child will be just like me and be healthy, rather than be just like the rest of hte people in our family who have eaten themselves into obesity, or smoked themselves into emphazema.. etc.
post #78 of 125
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Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
A dinner knife cannot do much harm IMO.
FWIW, my brother cut his hand with a table knife, so deeply that he needed stitches. He was 7.

My daughter has different rules than I do, because she has different needs than I do. She goes to bed at 7, I go to bed at 10. Not because I need less sleep, but because I need some alone-time with my DH.

She eats healthier than I do. She's guaranteed 3 meals a day, I usually only eat dinner, and maybe snack on her leftovers if she hasn't upended her juice onto her plate.

I wouldn't give her alcohol, primarily because we choose not to have alcohol in our home or our lives.

Rules are designed to create limits and boundaries, like a fence, allowing the child the freedom to explore in a safe environment. As the child grows, the rules change. Naturally, an adult's rules will be less stringent than a child's rules, because the adult has (presumably) learned to establish internal boundaries to replace the external.

Just as the adult has more freedoms, the adult also has more responsiblities. My daughter doesn't pick out her own clothes - but she also doesn't have to do her own laundry. She doesn't choose what she eats, but neither does she have to buy the food, prepare the food, and clean up afterwards.
post #79 of 125
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Rules are designed to create limits and boundaries, like a fence, allowing the child the freedom to explore in a safe environment. As the child grows, the rules change. Naturally, an adult's rules will be less stringent than a child's rules, because the adult has (presumably) learned to establish internal boundaries to replace the external.

well put


Also -- IMO -- there is a natrual progrssion of things -- as you say -- a fence getting bigger -- and it is only fair IMO -- that my 7 DN get to do more (and have more responiblites) than my 4 DN or my 16.5 month son...... and I do more than any of them (but have more responiblities too ).

AImee
post #80 of 125
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Originally Posted by JustJamie View Post
FWIW, my brother cut his hand with a table knife, so deeply that he needed stitches. He was 7.
I had a friend in the second grade that needed stitches after puncturing herself with a pencil. Should we ban pencils? Do not get me started on scissors.....

It is my belief that helping my child explore these things when she is interested and still OK with close supervision can only be a good thing. Besides, I like the help cutting stuff in the kitchen
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