pros and cons of uncirced penis please

[mommyof2soon2b3]

ok well my Dh and I had a disagreement about cicumcision when we found out I was having a boy we were both set in our ways...well I told dh that I would only have it done ONE way(a way I don't think they do for infants)well we can't find anyone to do it that way(thank god) well I am trying to convince Dh that it is not going to harm ds to keep his forskin...Ds was born on 3-27 and so far no circ...I am looking for as much info about likely hood of infection and diseases with being intact he has been reading up on it so maybe if I find enough he'll be willing to let him stay intact...

[Baby Makes 4]

What way would be acceptable to you?

Pros: Too many to list this late at night
Cons: None

[Microsoap]

The history of the foreskin!

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...o/prepuce.html

Cons (of circ'ing):
- no natural protection of the glans
- less sexually senisitive; and would YOU want that for your son, or sexual partner, or yourself?
- human rights violation

[Daisie125]

Intact Pros: Leaving your infant whole, not cutting off pieces of his penis, not messing with his future sex life, not giving him a rude welcome into the world, leaving the decision up to the owner of the penis.

Intact Cons: Um... uh..... sorry, I've got nothing.

[Fi.]

http://www.norm.org/lost.html

That is a list of many things lost during circumcision.

There are no cons to being intact for a male or a female (can you think of a con not removing your clitoral hood? i doubt it)

[orangefoot]

There are no cons here.

2 intact sons now 13 and 10 with no problems ever.

[Quirky]

The foreskin is a normal body part, so just like any other body part it might occasionally have an issue. Maybe it will get a yeast infection (just like the vagina does); maybe the intact boy will get a UTI (just like intact girls do); maybe if it's not washed for a long time it will get stinky (just like any body part on any person).

But there's no medical or hygienic reason to cut it off at birth, which is why no medical organization in the world recommends routine infant circumcision. Regular hygiene and routine medical care for the minor problems that may occur are all that's necessary.

And on the pro side of leaving it attached:

The foreskin, not the glans, is the most sensitive part of the penis. If you cut it off, you're cutting off the 5 most sensitive areas as measured in a recent study published in the British Journal of Urology comparing the sensitivity of intact and circumcised penises. The most sensitive part of the circumcised penis is the circumcision scar.

But the question for you is: circumcision is cosmetic surgery. The AAP calls it "non-therapeutic," meaning that at birth it's not necessary to treat any disease. So why do YOU have to convince your dh not to circumcise? Why is cosmetic surgery the default, and you have to talk him out of it?

It should be the other way around. All babies get to keep the parts they're born with unless there is a medical reason for surgery. Make your husband do the research on the pros and cons of circumcision and convince you -- he will not be able to find a recommendation from a medical organization that all babies be circumcised at birth.

[cv580]

Sorry, my letter was to long!

[ThreeBeans]

Pro: You don't sexually mutilate your child. Can't get better than that
Con: Doesn't exist

[buckeyedoc]

I don't know what a con would be, since I can't say the two seconds it takes for a retractable man to rinse under the foreskin in the shower is really a hassle. Other peoples' ignorance about someone's intact status would be a con, but not a con to the intact man, KWIM?

Pros are just knowing you left your boy as nature intended, left the decision up to him. It makes your postpartum days go much more smoothly not having to worry about what you have done or how to care for the circumcision site. Also, the foreskin is sensitive (a pro).

[eepster]

"Medical" circumcision was started by Victorians to prevent masturbation all the "benefits" are excuses to justify the past.

http://nocirc.org/
http://www.cps.ca/english/statements/FN/fn96-01.htm
http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/babies/Circumcision.htm

[trmpetplaya]

My intact dh loves having a foreskin and would never willingly part with it. He has never had any problems with it. As far as hygiene goes - he just gives a quick rinse under the foreskin in the shower and I've never had any complaints about his hygiene

With a baby the foreskin is fused to the glans and you just leave it alone and wipe the outside of it. If anyone tried to prematurely retract it then infections and tears in the skin can result so you just leave it alone and instruct everyone else who changes his diaper to leave it alone and just wipe the outside. Once it retracts the boy still doesn't have to do anything special with it. Just rinse underneath (or use very mild soap - something you wouldn't mind using on your sensitive bits) just like he would wash/rinse any other part of his body Dh was never specially instructed to wash under his foreskin and he says it was just common sense to wash there as well as everywhere else.

Dh does not consider that there are any cons to having an intact penis. He never had any issues in school locker rooms even though the circumcision rates were about at their highest at the time dh was born (1983). He never felt "different" about his penis any more than he felt "different" because he's tall, intelligent, and wears glasses.

As the wife of an intact man, I have to say that it's definitely my favourite part of the penis and that I do NOT understand how the penis would even work without it : I just can't fathom how it would possibly work - though I realise that it must. The foreskin is such an integral part of the penis!

Dh didn't have to go through the pain and trauma of un-anesthetised surgery when he was an infant (there is no effective/approved pain control method for infant circumcision). Dh was able to choose for himself whether or not to have this cosmetic surgery performed on HIS body (he obviously chose not to have it done ). Dh doesn't understand how anyone would want to cut off a piece of another person without that person's consent. I don't understand that fully myself...

Good for you for keeping your son intact thus far! Please check out the resources sticky at the top of the forum for many great links of information. It's your son's body and it should be his choice whether or not to be circumcised. If he gets it done as an adult then he can get General Anesthesia and strong pain meds during the recovery time. Most importantly, it would be HIS choice.

It's not your dh's penis (sadly he didn't get to choose what was done with his penis : ) or your penis or the "family's" penis. It's your son's penis. Let him decide what to do with it when he's 18, and likely, he'll be appalled at the very idea of chopping such a fun, integral, large, and sensitive piece off of it!

love and peace.

[njeb]

Here's a pro statement no one has mentioned before--when your son is grown, you will be happy with your decision. You won't feel any guilt about doing the wrong thing.
My two sons are grown men now, and after learning about the functions of the foreskin, thanks to MDC, I am sooo glad I didn't subject them to this barbaric practice! Their foreskins belong to them, not to me. By leaving them whole, they can decide whether or not they want to stay that way.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

If your son isn't forcibly retracted the odds of infection or problems are very small. Just like girls tho they do sometimes get yeast infections that are treated the same way yeast medication. They sometimes have separation trauma and that is perfectly normal. It happens when the foreskin release from the glans and it leave little raw spots it can hurt for a bit but it does heal.

Odds are way higher that he will have problems if he is circed. There is a 10% chance that he will have one of the many complications of circ including skin bridges, to tight of a circ leading to painful erection or hair on the shaft. There is a 100% chance he will loose sensation in the glans of his penis due to the rubbing on his clothing. Here are some facts for you to go over.

Reasons to leave your son intact:

- The owner of the penis should be the one to decide what to do with it.

-The foreskin, not the head, is the most sensitive part of the normal, intact penis.

- The movable shaft skin of an intact penis facilitates intercourse, reducing friction and prolonging pleasurable sex for both male and female.

- The foreskin aids in foreplay; lubricants are optional.

- An intact penis will have no circumcision scar, will often have less hair drawn up onto it shaft, and will on average be somewhat larger than a circumcised penis.

- The foreskin protects and lubricates the head or “glans” of the penis for the life of its owner. The glans or the head of the penis was never meant to be a external organ it should be inside the foreskin to protect it and keep it sensitive.

-80-85% of the world’s male population has intact genitals, including nearly all European males (please note that HIV/AIDS rates are actually lower in Europe than in America). Circumcision does NOT prevent AIDS wearing a condom does.

-80% of the world’s circumcised men in the world are in the US. 80% of the world’s Viagra sales are in the US. Coincidence? The foreskin has a gliding action that makes it easy for things to move.

-Male circumcision permanently diminishes the sexual feelings for both male and female.

- When people from non circumcising countries hear that we in the USA still do it they are usually shocked, and often don't believe it to be true.

- Care of the intact infant penis is actually much easier as there is no wound care, you just wash it like a finger, it should never be retracted by anyone other than the child. The age it becomes retractable varies greatly normal range is childhood to adulthood.

- The foreskin contains three to four feet of blood vessels, 240 feet of nerves, and 10-20,000 specialized nerve endings.

- When the foreskin is removed 30-50% of sexual pleasure goes with it. Because 30-50% of the total penile skin is removed during a RIC depending on the Dr. and the type of circumcision that is done.

-The circumcision rate in the USA has fallen from 90% in 1970 to roughly 56% today.

-Circumcisions was originally introduced in the country in the late 1800s to prevent masturbation. It has since been touted as the cure for all sorts of ailments - all of which have been scientifically disprovable. Including but not limited to it being a cure for baldness, mental illness, cancer etc. Etc.

The History of Circumcision
http://www.historyofcircumcision.net...tpage&Itemid=1

Warning disturbing pictures "The medicalization of circumcision"
http://www.icgi.org/medicalization_o...ion.htm#Page_1

A Short History of Circumcision in the U.S.A (this one is really scary when you read it)
http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/shorthis.htm

The Ritual of Circumcision
http://www.noharmm.org/paige.htm

-Cutting off the foreskin cuts off the most sensitive, erotic, pleasurable part of a man’s body. The foreskin plays a very important role in sex. Men who were circumcised later in life compare circed sex/intact sex to someone who is color blind they can see just fine but the full "color" is missing.

-Circumcision is almost NEVER medically necessary. The only true medical reasons for circ are, frostbite, gangrene and cancer (all of those would be extremely rare) The incidence for necessary medical circumcisions is less that 0.05%. Circumcision for phimosis should only be done as a last resort. After trying stretching, steroid cream and a dorsal slit.

-No medical organization anywhere recommends routine infant circ.
Here is a list of statements from several countries including the USA and Canada.
http://www.cirp.org/library/statements/

- Circumcision is EXTREMELY painful, even if anesthetic is administered. Studies have proved that babies feel pain even more acutely than an adult would. It is a very great breech of trust for a baby to be taken from his parents and cut. It is very violating. Long after any anesthesia that might(most only get a sugar dipped rag or paci to suck on) have been used wears off there is still a raw open wound sitting in urine and feces with no pain relief.

-The intact penis, if left alone, has no greater risk for UTI's, Std's, Penile Cancer, HIV, causing Cervical Cancer in women.

UTI myth http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/UTI/
http://www.nocirc.org/statements/breastfeeding.php

In fact, UTI's are so rare in any case that, using Wiswell's data, 50 to 100 healthy boys would have to be circumcised in order to prevent a UTI from developing in only one patient. (Using more recent data from a better-controlled study, the number of unnecessary operations needed to prevent one hospital admission for UTI would jump to 195.

FORESKINS: Seek Elsewhere for Infants' Urinary Tract Infections
http://www.cirp.org/news/1997.12.22_PhysiciansWeekly/


UTI Neonatal circumcision revisited
http://www.cps.ca/english/statements...ION%20OF%20UTI

The incidence of Genitourinary abnormalities in circumcised and uncircumcised presenting with an initial urinary tract infection by 6 months of age
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/UTI/mueller/
- Girls have a much greater risk of UTIs, yet we don't cut off parts of their genitals to prevent them.
Cancer Society:http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/co...evented_35.asp

In the past, circumcision has been suggested as a way to prevent penile cancer. This suggestion was based on studies that reported much lower penile cancer rates among circumcised men than among uncircumcised men. However, most researchers now believe those studies were flawed because they failed to consider other factors that are now known to affect penile cancer risk.

http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/cancer/

Gellis (1978) said there are more deaths from circumcision than from cancer of the penis.8
Boczko et al . found numerous reports of penile cancer in circumcised men, thus conclusively disproving Wolbarst's false claims of protection from penile cancer by circumcision.9
In "Circumcision: An American Health Fallacy," Edward Wallerstein writes14: "If infant circumcision reduces penile cancer we could expect to see proportionately less penile cancer in circumcising nations as compared to non-circumcising ones. No such difference is found."

Preston established quite clearly that there was little evidence to support a relationship between lack of circumcision and penile cancer, cervical cancer, or cancer of the prostate in 1970 but he was unable to identify the causative agent at that time,6 while Leitch did the same in Australia.

Circumcision and AIDS/HIV
http://www.circumstitions.com/HIV.html
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/HIV/ http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab003362.html
http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...Statement.html

Comparison of North America to other non-circ countries HIV status
http://www.avert.org/america.htm
http://www.avert.org/worldstats.htm
- The times the intact penis has trouble are when it is forcefully retracted before it is ready. The penis should only be retracted by its owner, when he’s ready. It is normal to not be retractable until after puberty. It is not a problem.

- Circumcision is SURGERY and as such poses significant risks of infection to the wound.
Possible complications include but are not limited to:
Infections;
Botched circumcisions that have to be redone;
To tight circumcisions that cause extreme pain with erection;
Hair on the shaft;
Loss of sensation in the glans (head), it becomes keratinized (hardened) without the foreskin;
Amputation of the part or all of the penis;
Ruptured stomach, bladder, and or intestines from crying so hard;
Skin bridges
Adhesions
Scaring on the penis shaft
Meatal Stenosis http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/persad/
DEATH
and much much more.
It is estimated that between 10-15% of all males will have at least 1 or more of the complications listed above. But none of these side effects are present when leaving a boy intact.

Links of pictures Warning graphic pictures
http://www.circumstitions.com/Restric/Botched1sb.html
http://www.noharmm.org/IDcirc.htm

- There are NO medical benefits with routine infant circumcision. It is a cosmetic surgery, and as such more insurance companies will NOT pay for it.

- Circumcision is big business in the US. Several billions of dollars every year. Doctors are very invested in keeping the circumcision myths alive.

- A single doctor can make $20,000 a year doing circumcisions.

- A little known fact is that foreskins are then resold to the highest bidder. They are used in cosmetics, skin growth for grafting, cancer treatments and much more. The after life of foreskins is also a multi billion dollar a year industry. Parents are not told about this. There is no informed consent. Certainly the foreskins owner dosent’t have a say in the matter.

- “Every boy born in the US has a $300 coupon attached to his foreskin. All you have to do is cut it off to redeem.”

- Circumcision should only be performed on consenting adults who know all that is entailed.

-What if your son wants his foreskin?

- A lot of men are very angry when they find out the truth and feel very violated. (like my husband.)

- How would you feel if someone cut off your clitoris and labia without asking you? They do it in Africa all the time. We are horrified when little girls are mutilated. Why not when little boys? FGM type one, the most common form of female circumcision, only removes the covering of the clitoris and some of the labia. Those parts directly corrilate to the foreskin on a male penis.

- It causes immense trauma & physical pain to a brand new baby who just had to undergo birth. Often times a baby will suddenly cease crying and so the Doctors say it doesn't hurt them. It does - they are in shock.

- Smegma isn’t bad or gross. It is the Greek word for soap. Women have it too. It helps keep everything clean and healthy. No intact boy should be forcefully retracted just to clean it out. It’s supposed to be there!

- When they separate the foreskin from the glans it is similar to ripping off your fingernails. Than they crush the foreskin and cut it off. They also stimulate an erection so they “know where to cut.” A boys first sexual experience is one of great pain and trauma.

Common myths you may hear from others and even Dr's:

http://www.coloradonocirc.org/myths.php

Why men may insist on circumcision article

http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html

Side by side comparison of MGM & FGM
http://www.circumstitions.com/FGMvsMGM.html

[hunnybumm]

Originally Posted by mommyof2soon2b3

ok well my Dh and I had a disagreement about cicumcision when we found out I was having a boy we were both set in our ways...well I told dh that I would only have it done ONE way(a way I don't think they do for infants)well we can't find anyone to do it that way(thank god) well I am trying to convince Dh that it is not going to harm ds to keep his forskin...Ds was born on 3-27 and so far no circ...I am looking for as much info about likely hood of infection and diseases with being intact he has been reading up on it so maybe if I find enough he'll be willing to let him stay intact...

I am curious as well what (to you) would be an acceptable way to have your son circumcised? It seems to me you would have more conviction and more respect if you were completely against it rather than "We can only have it done if it is done X way".

The pros of leaving your son intact are too many to list.

The cons of having your son circumcised are too many to list.

If you truly feel circumcision is wrong then tell your DH that. Tell him you will never allow your child to be harmed in such a way. Be very strong and secure in your conviction. If you seem wishy washy then you probably won't be able to convience him that circ is wrong.

[A&A]

Read this:

http://timmytm.livejournal.com/33872...thread=2081616

[shelbean91]

No cons of intact penis. Both of my boys are intact and while my dh thought it weird at first, he's perfectly fine now. As a matter of fact, at 4 mos old, I had to take ds1 to a ped urologist to check out hypospadius (ped was concerned, urologist said it's about a 1 on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the worst). Ped said if hypo needed to be corrected, they circ and use the forskin- by the time ds was 4 mos old, dh didn't want him to have any type of surgical procedure.

Not sure why people think a baby is less of a person at 1 day old than 6 mos old, but they do seem to think that.

[monkeys4mama]

You guys missed something.

There IS a con to leaving your son intact.

You may be harrassed and subjected to stupid comments by ignorant friends and family members. :

But that's no reason to give and and do it.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Originally Posted by monkeys4mama

You guys missed something.

There IS a con to leaving your son intact.

You may be harrassed and subjected to stupid comments by ignorant friends and family members. :

But that's no reason to give and and do it.

Yep that is the only con I have found as well but like you said it is definatly not a reason to have it done.

[stacyann21]

The only con I can think of besides that mentioned above is that you will be forever heartbroken that so many baby boys go through a painful, disfiguring surgery for no good reason at all.