April Unschoolers support - Page 3

[mama in the forest]

Thank you Earth Angel. :

And I LOVE your board of Directors!!!

Hey, I've gotta give those animals some jobs....or they stand around & graze, graze, graze.

[Earth Angel]

everyone needs a "purpose" no?

[UUMom]

Yesterday we buried our kitty, which was enough for one day. Today we are going to the library and to our knitting group. My 14 yr old has spent the morning drawing cat cartoons, and the 8 yr old has been drawing cat pictures and designing a tombstone. It's been very sad. I am so glad they are home with me to process.

[domesticzookeeper]

UUMom - sorry to hear about your kitty

Originally Posted by Earth Angel

domesticzookeeper ~ we are in Mid Coast Maine
It must be amazing to be homeschooling your siblings!! Were you also homeschooled?

I *love* learning with the kiddos! Yes, I was homeschooled in high school, but it was correspondence school-at-home type stuff. It wasn't until my year of teachers' education that I became interested in more 'alternative' methods of schooling.

Joan - thank you! Those are all wonderful ideas. After my moment of sheer frustration earlier this week, I took the time to think it over, process some of the ideas from this thread and talk with my parents. I know there are things out there that will interest Hannah. But I also know that she's about to turn 13, life is kinda rough at this age and I really don't need to push her. This too shall pass

In the meantime we can follow her interests wherever they lead her. She does really like crafty projects (just last week she made an amazing replica of an English saddle out of scrap leather) and now I'm more motivated to fix up the sewing room so she can practice with that.

My mom was actually the most encouraging. My parents are the poster children for learning through life: neither one graduated college, but they were open to learning, followed their interests, tackled challenges and found jobs that suit them perfectly. "Does she know how to learn? Is her mind open? That's what's important."

[WuWei]

Sorry about the sadness surrounding the loss of your kitty. Mittens, our first cat, was our son's first loss. It is amazing how that models his experience surrounding death. I wanted to share a conversation our son, age 5, and I had last month about George and death. George is a goldfish. Mittens was our cat that died when our son was about 3. This is my email to my husband to give him a heads up about our discussion. I reflected on it as "unschooling death".


Pat

Erik and I just had a long talk about George and death. I wanted to share what I told him about this, in case he brings it up and wants to talk more. I told him that George had died. He was very quiet, with mouth agape for many seconds while processing the information. I explained that last night when we came home that he had died, and that I took him out of the water and we could bury him. I told him that I thought that maybe there was something about the water that didn't work for George. That George had been eating, but he just died. That water has molecules and nutrients and they need to be healthy for the fish and that maybe something wasn't healthy for George. Like when the air needs to be healthy for us, and pollution or smoke makes it unhealthy and we can get sick.

He said "I miss Mittens. She was my favorite cat." I repeated that 'you miss Mittens, she was fun, we love Mittens and that she was your favorite cat'. And I said Pie is our favorite little cat, Peaches is our favorite fuzzy cat, Marvin is our favorite boy cat, Honey is our favorite cheese eating cat, and Oatmeal is our favorite wild, outside cat. He laughed and nodded a little bit. And said "Mittens was my favorite cat." Then he said something like "Will Pie die?" and I said 'Yes, everything dies. Everything that is alive dies someday.' He said 'I don't want her to die.' And I said 'Well, when things get old, tired or sick, sometimes their body dies.' He said 'Mittens died. I miss her.'

It was interesting to see him processing this, and hard also not to be sad about it; and yet, needing to explain it in a manner that isn't scary or upsetting, and comfortable, was an amazing gift to me. Then he said 'Will I die?' with a bit of concern in his voice. And I gently said 'Everyone dies.' And I paused, figuring how do I explain this?!?! and said 'Our body dies, but we have a spirit of energy that stays with the people we love. So our spirit doesn't die, just our body.' I said 'Remember the Circle of Life? When things die, their body returns to the earth and nourishes the plants, and trees and becomes flowers and air and sun and helps everything that is living, so the body nourishes everything when it dies. And the spirit is always with the people who loved us. We are always together, even after our body dies.' I was getting a bit choked up at this point, but really felt glad I was comfortable with this issue enough to discuss it with him.

I said 'Dada's mama and dada died a long time ago. And their spirit is still with mama and dada and all the people who loved them.' He said 'Dada's two grandmas died.' And then he brightly said, 'Then you can get a new baby boy!' (In the past, he has spontaneously said 'I'll be born again as your baby.' in a comfortable and declarative way when we discuss being born. Or, 'Now, it will be born again.' when we have discussed things (insects, birds, etc.) dying before.' ) He hasn't connected the two: people dying and then being born again, as far as I know, until now. And I haven't led him to this belief. Interestingly, this IS a majority belief across the world. His statements have been associated with 'being born repeatedly' and "things being born again which die".) I hesitate about 'getting a new one' regarding the animals that die, because that isn't possible when people die. And yet, it seems unnecessary to live without a new pet which brings comfort and fun. They seem different, and yet it is a similar "comfort" about death to him, it seems: "Then you can get a new baby boy!" I love how he just automatically focuses on what brings joy, and let's do that again!

And I said 'Well, I think mama is too old to have another baby, but your spirit will always be with me, because I will always love you and we'll always be together.' He insistently said 'But, you need a baby boy.' And I said 'You will always be my baby boy, and we'll always be together, only our body dies, our spirits will always be together because we love each other.' Ok, so now, even I am having a tough time being comforted with this topic, while holding him in my arms, but it was so peaceful too. I explained that 'Life is a gift. We live in our body and have lots of fun experiences and then our body dies and nourishes everything and becomes everything. And our spirit is energy and continues in everyone we have ever met and loved.' He hugged my neck and smiled and said 'We'll always be together.' And he started petting Pie and then chatting about her.

I hope that sharing this conversation hasn't upset you too much. I know that this is a hard topic for you, especially about people you love. I found it interesting that he couldn't "go there" about parents dying. I wasn't wanting to make the point, just give an example where someone we love died and their spirit is still with us. He remembered that you told him that you had two grandmas that died. That was "approachable" to him. I am not sure what else he'll come up with, but I wanted to give you a heads up. I have found it comforting to have had the conversation with him. I hope this one helps you too.

Love always,

[WuWei]

Ok, did I kill the thread talking about death?! :

I find the subject fascinating, sorry if I bummed folks out.

Can I just say how glad I am that we are with our son when out and about at activities?! We went to an outing today and forgot that it is Spring Break. Many kids are in "camp" this week with teachers and kids that they do not know. It is a huge difference to be there when our son needs me. I am glad we are not doing school!


Pat

[SagMom]

UUMom--sorry to hear about your kitty.

Pat--I got all teary reading your post. That was so sweet and gentle.

I am really feeling appreciative of our family's time together lately too. I know a (schooling) mom who recently went back to work full time and it's hard for me to witness how that impacts the whole family. It makes me all the more happy that we are where we are.

Oh, and my ds met with a woodworker today (I'm not even sure what to call him--"carpenter" doesn't say it all--he's an artist, really.) Anyway, hopefully ds will be able to explore the profession a bit and get some insight through him.

Erika! Good to "see" you. I'd been away from mdc for a while and haven't seen you since I've been back. Are you speaking at L&L or will you be going as one of us regular folk?

[4evermom]

Originally Posted by WuWei

Ok, did I kill the thread talking about death?! :

Yeah, you did.

I was going to post about how much fun ds has been having with his water pistols but thought I should wait til the topic got off death for fear of seeming insensitive .

Yesterday, the weather was warm and sunny and ds was thrilled that dh (who hates getting wet) came out for a family water gun fight. Today, it is cold and rainy. Ds, of course, still wants to play water fight. We've found a couple of acceptable alternatives, shooting our reflections in the mirror, playing with them in the bathtub, shooting suds off the mirror, etc. But ds really wants to have another family battle. I held off on getting water pistols for a long time because I knew they would cause as much unhappiness an fun since there is a shortage of people to play with and the weather isn't quite warm enough. I'd like to not have them in the house because ds eventually can't resist shooting someone but I don't want to take away his new toy, either. Hopefully the idea of keeping them outside will take once the newness wears off.

[UnschoolnMa]

Originally Posted by WuWei

Ok, did I kill the thread talking about death?! :

I find the subject fascinating, sorry if I bummed folks out.

No way! You didn't kill it for me at all. I found your whole post a great read, and I couldn't even trim it for highlights to quote because it was all so cool.

I think you really handled it wonderfully. It's such a tough topic to address and doing so with our wee ones (or, as in my case, big ones) can be really sensitive. I love your explanation to your Ds...sensitive, gentle, honest. And we do learn about all kinds of things unschooling so it's totally relevant.

[mama in the forest]

I love how relaxed the unschooled mamas are. It's such a good feeling of peace and simplicity. I love being casual enough & free enough to just do what feels right for that moment. I love watching my children CHOOSE.

[UnschoolnMa]

Originally Posted by mama in the forest

I love watching my children CHOOSE.

Right now my Dd is choosing to do puzzles in the living room while watching Sponge Bob. Earlier she took the baby cat outside on a leash to check the mail.And before that she was choosing to do fractions and division. (And was kind enough to not laugh at her mother who had, apparently, forgotten some basic long division processes... ) Now we're tossing around dinner ideas, but I am too full to seriously ponder it because I just drank a tall chocolate banana spinach smoothie!

[somanythings]

This thread is right where/when I needed it! I have been feeling "too relaxed" lately, and it is good to read about the balance inherent in following your child's desire to learn.
That said, right now we are learning how to make dinner when you have a pound of noodles and a carton of cottage cheese in the house until payday, (a skill passed on by my own broke homeschoolin' mama! ) and analyzing Marilyn Manson lyrics. :

[UUMom]

Thank you all for your kind thoughts about the loss of our Scout. He was well-loved and cared for. He got out & was attacked by another animal. (How do you keep a cat in who is determined to get out?!) Poor baby dragged himself as close to our back door as possible. Up the stairs with a broken leg. It was so sad, and my children are devastated. I am sick with guilt about it. Such a sweet thing. He slept with my youngest and she is so sad.

[UUMom]

Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa

Right now my Dd is choosing to do puzzles in the living room while watching Sponge Bob. Earlier she took the baby cat outside on a leash to check the mail.And before that she was choosing to do fractions and division. (And was kind enough to not laugh at her mother who had, apparently, forgotten some basic long division processes... ) Now we're tossing around dinner ideas, but I am too full to seriously ponder it because I just drank a tall chocolate banana spinach smoothie!

That brings a smile to my face.

This weekend my 8 yr old helped build fences on our property. She was beaming with pride and even the big dog can't get through. I love to watch her with her work gloves and wire clippers.

Right now she is brushed, washed, jammied, and waiting to watch American Idol , as her father rigged up something probably illegal on a pole outside our house...

Build a fence by day, watch TV contests by night.

[UUMom]

Originally Posted by WuWei

Sorry about the sadness surrounding the loss of your kitty. Mittens, our first cat, was our son's first loss. It is amazing how that models his experience surrounding death. I wanted to share a conversation our son, age 5, and I had last month about George and death. George is a goldfish. Mittens was our cat that died when our son was about 3. This is my email to my husband to give him a heads up about our discussion. I reflected on it as "unschooling death".


Pat

Sadly, my kids have experienced many deaths. I am glad we were able to face them as a family. They were able to say goodbye and attend various services, including the spreading of ashes of their maternal g grandfater. The dearest uncle in the world recently died and my children were so kind and sweet and lovely about it. He was an amazing person who died prematurely. I have struggled with how much to say/tell/have them experience. However, their beloved paternal gfathe recently died and they were able to say goodbye. They saw him, sat by him, kissed him, went to the funeral etc. They know it's sad, and they know it's healthy to cry & talk about it all.

This is the second cat we have buried. The first was a cat that I had as a young person and who died at over 20. All of my children knew her. We buried her in our backyard, wrote poems, shared memories etc. We have also buried a hamster and bird.

My youngest said yesterday that she would be angry if she hadn't been able to say goodbye to the people (and animals) she loved when I mentioned that some parents wouldn't want their child to know their pet had died. I understand that, because I wish I could shield my children from pain. Yet I know it's impossible to do that, and also wrong. In the end, I feel most comfortable being honest and then supporting them as they process their grief and pain. It's not that it's a pleasant/easy cakewalk. But I don't feel comfortable doing anything else.

[Earth Angel]

Originally Posted by UUMom

Sadly, my kids have experienced many deaths. I am glad we were able to face them as a family. They were able to say goodbye and attend various services, including the spreading of ashes of their maternal g grandfater. The dearest uncle in the world recently died and my children were so kind and sweet and lovely about it. He was an amazing person who died prematurely. I have struggled with how much to say/tell/have them experience. However, their beloved paternal gfathe recently died and they were able to say goodbye. They saw him, sat by him, kissed him, went to the funeral etc. They know it's sad, and they know it's healthy to cry & talk about it all.

This is the second cat we have buried. The first was a cat that I had as a young person and who died at over 20. All of my children knew her. We buried her in our backyard, wrote poems, shared memories etc. We have also buried a hamster and bird.

My youngest said yesterday that she would be angry if she hadn't been able to say goodbye to the people (and animals) she loved when I mentioned that some parents wouldn't want their child to know their pet had died. I understand that, because I wish I could shield my children from pain. Yet I know it's impossible to do that, and also wrong. In the end, I feel most comfortable being honest and then supporting them as they process their grief and pain. It's not that it's a pleasant/easy cakewalk. But I don't feel comfortable doing anything else.

I'm so sorry for you losses

You are so right though, it is only natural to be open with our children about death....though it makes us very sad, it is a part of life.

on the reincarnation note......I know it is a bit OT, but my oldest has been mater of fact about it too since he was very young....to him it is just what happens, and he never thought any thing different.

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by UUMom

(How do you keep a cat in who is determined to get out?!)

The poignancy of this question is what lead me to unschooling actually. I learned to trust.

Our first kitten was determined to be a FREE cat, despite my fears, worries, concerns and admonitions to the contrary. She is an autonomous and free spirit. I made peace with the fact that she was *choosing* her path, including the joys and dangers of living a life in the Real World. And this shone the light on parenting a FREE child, to me. I choose to honor our son's autonomy and free spirit, mostly without fears, worries, concerns and admonitions to the contrary. He *chooses* his path, including the joys and "dangers" of living a life in the Real World...again I am glad, as an unschooler, that *I am there when our son needs me*.

There is a saying 'All creatures reside within themselves, yet none need walk alone'. We were just counting all the "members" of our family, which of course included the 5 cats, 5 fish, 2 gerbils, 1 corn snake and 3 humans. Family has a whole different meaning when you live and learn together.


Pat

[Mona]

wow, i rarely come to mdc anymore, but happend to find myself here. i'm excited to read through this thread and sub.

[genifer]

I have so much to say but so little time to say it. I have always known that homeschooling my children was what I wanted to do since my twin girls were inutero. I dont know where I initially got the idea but, like breast feeding, I knew that this is what we were going to do. I had no idea about the different methods and I was actually quite naive about how so damned hard it was going to be!! Im just being honest. I have almost 8yo twin girls and a 6yo boy. They went to school for the first few years, between ages 3 andmy girls were almost 7 when they left school and my son was 5 when he left. We are from the USA but live in the UK and I feel that the UK educational system is way more intense than what I remember the US system being. Anyway. Homeschooling wasnt an option for those years, altho I desperately wanted to do so. We have been free from school for a year now.

Im still deschooling. The kids are too, but I am probably more so. Pennies keep dropping as far as unschooling being the best way forward for us. There are practical reasons why school-at-home doesnt work for us. Namely, my kids absolutely refuse to sit and do 'work'. I cannot afford a curriculum, etc. I have struggled with the old 'OH my goodness, they arent learning a damn thing!!' mentality. And I get really wound up when outsiders dont understand what we are doing and ask them questions. I still get the uncomfortable silences from old friends who outwardly are supportive, or at least not critical, of our decision, but the silences seem to say 'You are totally screwing your kids up!!' Unschooling, or autonomous learning, is so natural, but at the same time it is so not normal, or the norm, and I am just now getting my head around the fact that my kids will be different. Preparing them for that is important, as well as anything else. How to respond to being different. I was talking to one of my friends who, while she is a good friend, she probably cant get her head around what we are doing with our family. I was saying that while I was in school I wanted so much more freedom to learn. School is so 'inside the box' with no room or time for any kind of indepth or serious learning/thinking. I wanted so much more than what was provided. All that time waisted in a classroom!! I started learning when I became an adult. And what Ive learned about the world I live in since then could not possibly be put down in words in a few short paragraphs here. In a way I feel as tho Im giving my kids a head start. I am anxious about whether they will learn how to read, but I am letting go, slowly but surely. I am getting it, and getting 'ok' with it. I too love walking thru life with my children. My friend (mentioned above) hinted about us sheltering my children from that 'real world'. That has never been my intention. I do want my children to have certain values that I would be fighting against the tide with if they were in school. Our culture is really screwed up imnsho. I do not shelter my kids. I walk with them thru life talk about the values of our culture and allow them the choice to make their own mark. That is my intention anyway.

You know what it was like for me? (and can anyone else relate?) When I was in school, and in my family growing up, I really felt like I just wasnt like everyone else. I actually thought about things and wondered 'Why' and 'How' and was never ever allowed to explore. I guess I was a bit of a nusance to my family because I wanted to do things my way, or I asked questions, and couldnt just sit back and just accept what everyone told me. I made a nusance of myself by asking questions or arguing with the teacher or telling him that he really shoulndt treat us the way he was, or talk to us the way he was. Not only was it the adults tho, my 'peers' really didnt get me either. They just got on with their work and got good grades and... well that was it. I got good grades but it was because I could work the system. Not because I had learned anything.

Please bear with me. I think this is the best, most pleasant thread Ive ever come across at mdc. I hope I can be part of it because I need it so much. I am still deschooling tho. At the moment I do have a bit of anxiety about my children's education. I know some of you have done this, unschooling, from the start or for a very long time, but I was wondering if anyone else is like me, fell into it almost by default. I had never heard of it before. Especially when alot of christian home educators are the school-at-home type. I almost feel like we dont fit in anywhere. (I guess thats another story altogether).

gen

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by genifer

You know what it was like for me? (and can anyone else relate?) When I was in school, and in my family growing up, I really felt like I just wasn't like everyone else. I actually thought about things and wondered 'Why' and 'How' and was never ever allowed to explore. I guess I was a bit of a nuisance to my family because I wanted to do things my way, or I asked questions, and couldn't just sit back and just accept what everyone told me. I made a nuisance of myself by asking questions or arguing with the teacher or telling him that he really shouldn't treat us the way he was, or talk to us the way he was. Not only was it the adults tho, my 'peers' really didn't get me either. They just got on with their work and got good grades and... well that was it. I got good grades but it was because I could work the system. Not because I had learned anything.

Yes, I always felt that we weren't supposed to *THINK* and ask questions, but to "learn" and repeat what we were "taught". I too excelled in school, but wasted a lot of time, compared to the fun that we have living and learning in the Real World. And we can ask "Why?" and "How?" and explore and discover together. What a trip. We love learning!!



Pat