WW vs. White Flour

[ani'smommy]

I have always bought ww flour and used it in most cooking, but it seems like there are a lot of recipes in NT using white flour.

I thought that ww flour was way better for you, is that not true if it's soaked/fermented white flour?

[AllieFaye]

I grew up on ww exclusively until I was twelve. I am unconvinced that it is superior. I think it was too hard on my digestive system as a child. I plan on using other grains for my own child. When we do use ww, we will use pastry flour. Otherwise, I will use unbleached white flour, when I do use bake with flour.

[ani'smommy]

So white flour is more digestible?

[spughy]

White flour is more digestible, but it has far fewer nutrients. Soaking/fermenting whole wheat flour makes it more digestible and makes the nutrients in it more bioavailable. Whole wheat flour also contains phytates, which are an anti-nutrient; that is, they actively block the body's absorption of minerals in the food. I don't know if anyone's looked at whether you're better off, mineral-wise, eating white flour than unsoaked whole wheat. My guess would be no, but I'm not a nutritionist. Perhaps Amanda would know (Gale Force)?

I have problems eating white flour, I tend to get constipated easily and I only feel right when I'm eating 100% whole grains. I was raised on whole wheat.

[ani'smommy]

Hm. I'm making the "new innovation" bread, and I do let it sit for 24 hours at least, so it is pretty fermented. I wonder which is better to use. .. Half and half maybe?

[rayo de sol]

I was also brought up exclusively on ww flour, so I just keep using it out of habit, but now I'm starting to wonder because the ww flour I've been buying out of the hfs bulk bins is apparently not really "whole." It's just white flour with bran added to it. The germ with all the vitamins is lacking.

The ideal is to grind your own fresh ww flour and then soak it before baking with it. But if you can't grind your own, is it better to just buy white flour?

[ani'smommy]

Originally Posted by rayo de sol

But if you can't grind your own, is it better to just buy white flour?

Yeah, that's what I'm wondering, too. . .

[gardenmommy]

My experience with all of my children (myself, too) is that soaked whole wheat is easier to digest than either unsoaked whole wheat or white flour. I have one child who (please excuse the tmi) would poop what looked like wet bread crumbs for the longest time; when I started making sourdough, she had a much easier time digesting it. She will actually eat the sourdough bread I make, but only the filling on storebought bread, even Ezekial type breads.

I think it's fine to use a mix of whole wheat and white flours, but I do think you'll get more nutrition from whole wheat. Check the label on the flour to see if you are actually getting all the grain. If you aren't, it seems to me that you might as well just use unbleached white flour. I'm sure there is someone more informed than I am, though, so I'm certainly open to correction!

[NettleSongMama]

I don't see any reason to soak white flour. I mean, the phytates are in the bran right? So white flour shouldn't have any.
I have been pondering this quite a while too. I do have a grain grinder and believe soaked or sprouted whole grain is best. But I also buy gold and black organic unbleached flour with the germ and I LOVE baking with that, either half with the sprouted/soaked or by itself if I really want something light. Also if I forget to sprout or soak its convienent, and also it bakes up so light, my family of course really likes it.....it goes over really well. I mean, sure I can make an okay 100% ww loaf of bread and it tends to get eaten the most when its still warm, then a lot of time it sits and sits and no one really wants it. When its half white its eaten really well.
So for me, it is weighing the difference between the harmful effects of whole wheat that isn't unsoaked with this black and gold flour. My intuition tells me the black and gold would be better- even if you were missing some nutrients, it would not be blocking mineral absorbtion y/k? I mean, usually we eat our bread or grain product with a lot of nutrients from other foods in the same meal, we are not depending on the grain to supply us all our vits and minerals.

[MaryCeleste]

If we're ever in a situation where we can't get freshly stone-ground whole grain bread, we look for bread that's made from unbleached, unfortified white flour, and try to make up the difference with "superfoods" (nutritional yeast, liver, etc.). This is our ranking, just based on my own reading; YMMV:

Ideal:

freshly stone-ground organic whole grain flour
(if digestibility is a problem, or you just want a "lighter" flour, it can be bolted to remove some of the bran)

Acceptable occasionally/in a pinch:

freshly stone-ground conventional whole grain flour
unbleached, unfortified organic white flour
unbleached, unfortified conventional white flour

Will not eat unless starving:

flour that's been fortified with synthetic vitamins
flour that's been bleached
whole grain flour that's not fresh

[Rachel J.]

Originally Posted by MaryCeleste

freshly stone-ground organic whole grain flour
(if digestibility is a problem, or you just want a "lighter" flour, it can be bolted to remove some of the bran)

So do you "bolt" your own flour ever? I looked at the link but am curious how someone might do that at home. I find that I digest white flour better than whole grains so it probably would be beneficial for me.

[wipersnaz]

How do you soak the flour to use in recipes? Is that sour dough? Why is freshly ground ww flour bad?

Is there a sprouted flour? Or do you just add sprouts to your bread recipe?

[Gale Force]

:



I just worked outside for six hours today and am ready to hit the sack.

WW would be better mineral-wise even unsoaked because some of the phytic acid is reduced in cooking alone. Better would be soaked/ sprouted/ sourdough.

Don't bother soaking white flour.

I used white flour today, by the way, in some plain old chocolate chip cookies. : I have not made actual cookies in about ten years. I used to bake them by the quadruple batch for my parents' retreat house. I tasted the batter today and wondered what in the heck happened to the cookie dough I remember. I think my taste has changed. They are good, but they are not *that* good.

What a total tangent. Good night everyone.

[ani'smommy]

Originally Posted by MaryCeleste

If we're ever in a situation where we can't get freshly stone-ground whole grain bread, we look for bread that's made from unbleached, unfortified white flour, and try to make up the difference with "superfoods" (nutritional yeast, liver, etc.). This is our ranking, just based on my own reading; YMMV:

Ideal:

freshly stone-ground organic whole grain flour
(if digestibility is a problem, or you just want a "lighter" flour, it can be bolted to remove some of the bran)

Acceptable occasionally/in a pinch:

freshly stone-ground conventional whole grain flour
unbleached, unfortified organic white flour
unbleached, unfortified conventional white flour

Will not eat unless starving:

flour that's been fortified with synthetic vitamins
flour that's been bleached
whole grain flour that's not fresh

Hmm. My options at this point are either white flour (unbleached, I think I can get unfortified) or whole grain flour from the grocery store, so I guess I'd say not fresh. How fresh is fresh, anyway? If I go to the health food store I can get ww flour that is probably fresher, or I maybe can order some freshly ground ww flour from an online sources, but is it still considered fresh after like a week? a month?

So what is the hype about ww flour all about then? If I bought some regular old "whole wheat" bread from the store, is that any better for me than conventional white bread? What is supposed to be better about it? The nutrients? The fiber?

Also, I'm trying to make bread for everyday use. I'm using the "new innovation" recipe. So, it is soaked for 24 or so. Since we'll probably be eating a fair amount of it, I'd really like to use the best stuff I can get.

Does anyone order ground ww flour online? Is it still "freshly ground" by the time you get it and use it up?

Sorry for all the questions!

[kmamma]

Sure, white flour is easier to digest, sort of... I say sort of because white flour, in being refined, not only does not supply you with vital nutrients but it also robs your body of the nutrients you alreayd have, and that in turn leads to faulty digestion.
IMO though, if you want to occasionally use unsoaked flour for the ease of it, always use white over whole (because whole, untreated is immediately causing digestive distress and robbing minerals--HOWEVER, using white flour will put moer gluten in the product so if that's an issue, digestion might suffer right after eating too).
My own mantra is that I will NEVER use whole untreated flour, unless I'm starving, simply because I already have digestive issues. However, for ease you can also buy sprouted flour which I have started doing, which is the best choice from a nutritional standpoint. I haven't used it very much, just for cookies from NT, but to be honest I thought they tasted better than anything I've ever had with white flour. My friend also makes a piecrust from it that I just loved, and again, it tasted better and felt more satisfying than a white crust.

[ani'smommy]

Well, the recipe I am using is fermented for 24 hours.

The trouble is that I can't grind my own flour at home, so is it better to use conventional ww flour, or unbleached white? I'm not sure if I can get sprouted flour around here, but I probably could order some online if it isn't too expensive.

Do you have a good source for flour, gardenmommy? Or do you grind your own?

[gardenmommy]

ani'smommy, we just bought a grain mill, so I'm starting to get into using freshly ground flour. Very tasty, I must say.

Still, I do buy white flour, because some things are just better with it (sorry, I should probably go hide for that one!). For that, I buy in bulk through my co-op.

In the past, before we had our grain mill, I would buy whole wheat or spelt through our co-op as well. It always seemed very good to me, much better than what you can buy at Meijer or whatnot. I liked the texture of baked goods, and the taste was yummy.

[MaryCeleste]

Originally Posted by ani'smommy

Hmm. My options at this point are either white flour (unbleached, I think I can get unfortified) or whole grain flour from the grocery store, so I guess I'd say not fresh. How fresh is fresh, anyway? If I go to the health food store I can get ww flour that is probably fresher, or I maybe can order some freshly ground ww flour from an online sources, but is it still considered fresh after like a week? a month?

For whole wheat, a week would be okay. It wouldn't have the same amount of vitamins as fresh-ground, but it wouldn't be rancid, either.

A month... probably not, unless it was refrigerated.

Here's a link with more information:

http://eap.mcgill.ca/Publications/EAP35.htm

They cite several sources that suggest a 2-week limit.

In the "olden days," families knew that flour became stale, bitter, etc. within days. They used to go to the local mill every week or so, to have their grain ground into flour. They often had to wait in line for a long time, so it was a major social occasion. It was only after the advent of rail transport and the roller mill, in the late 1800's, that companies started milling flour at a central location (Minneapolis was the big one) and shipping it out in packages to the rest of the country. Of course, roller milled flour didn't go rancid, which was one of the reasons it became so hugely popular.

Whole wheat flour is far more nutritious than roller-milled white flour. The trouble is, the companies who produce it seem to think that they can use the same production & distribution system that was developed by the roller-mill people. They don't realize that their flour is a fresh, perishable product -- like milk, meat, seafood, and veggies -- and should be treated with the same care. (I'm speaking of truly whole grain flour. The flour that's permitted to be sold as "whole wheat" in Canada is often just roller-milled white flour with the bran added back, minus the germ. It's quite possible that that stuff "keeps" better, but the manufacturers can keep it themselves, as far as I'm concerned. : )

BTW, here are some stories of old-time stone mills, for those who like to read about that sort of thing:

The Old Stone Mill at Morley

The Grain Gathers Us Together: Barker's Creek Grist Mill


And one that just makes me : :

Modern Flour Mills Replace Old Stone Mills in Egypt

[ani'smommy]

Thanks, MaryCeleste, very interesting!

So is it pretty worthless to buy freshly ground flour online? Would it be rancid most likely before it got here?

And if I was able to find freshly ground flour, would it stay fresh if I kept it in the freezer?

[ani'smommy]

Originally Posted by gardenmommy

I think it's fine to use a mix of whole wheat and white flours, but I do think you'll get more nutrition from whole wheat. Check the label on the flour to see if you are actually getting all the grain. If you aren't, it seems to me that you might as well just use unbleached white flour. I'm sure there is someone more informed than I am, though, so I'm certainly open to correction!

gardenmommy, how could I tell if I am getting all the grain? What would the package say?