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What are we afraid of?? - Page 2

post #21 of 93

i feel a little better

and yes, i did read and not reply, then it was bugging me at night.
so i wrote.

i wont be ignoring anyone.

i am still a little bothered, but not nearly as much.

thanks
post #22 of 93
Thread Starter 
I'm glad that you feel better and understand more of what we mean. And I'm happy that you posted and asked instead of assuming.

It is hard because some terms aren't really acceptable to be used (which is part of my rant). If we could talk openly everywhere there would less misunderstanding all around.
post #23 of 93

Re: What are we afraid of??

Quote:
Why must moms hint softly, or be afraid (as if something is wrong) when they have questions about how to handle their toddler who has just discovered their genitals?
My ds has been pulling and prodding at himself almost since day one. He always seems to have his hand in his diaper. I never thought about it one way or another until my mother said, "Some people might call CPS about a thing like that". I'm not sure if that was her round about way of telling me she thought it was wrong and I should stop him or that I should be careful about what other people saw. I was too shocked to ask her what she meant.

When he is old enough to understand, I will tell him that is something people do in private and that he may go into the bedroom or bathroom to do it. But, I really want him to know his body is okay and touching it is okay.


This might be TMI. I didn't know about masturbating until after I met my dh (he told me ) I was to scared and ashamed to explore on my own. Quite honestly, I really wish I had known when I was a teen. I was encredibily horny and made a lot of stupid mistakes because of that.:
post #24 of 93
Great post, Arduinna. I couldn't agree more!

Kylix
post #25 of 93

wait wait wait wait

first you guys are saying that proper names are ok to use with children and masturbation is cool with children, but i remember a couple of months ago i posted that my dd takes a bath with her grandfather, who has been more like a father to her, and you guys flipped! and in order to take a bath with her grandfather they both have to be naked, and God forbid that was n't proper so make up your minds........get it straight
post #26 of 93
Thread Starter 
Jannen, I suggest you take up your beef from another thread there and with whoever said it.

BTW, no one has said masturbation is cool WITH children (meaning adults and kids doing it together) that is sick, period.

Mel, I can't believe your mom said that about CPS. I think you made some great points about masturbation and teens having partnered sex (couldn't think of a better term) and also regarding knowing your own body.

Thanks Kylix
post #27 of 93
you guys are saying that it is ok if children masturbate
post #28 of 93
this is a very complex topic. on the issue of orientation, i've become really aware of how much society projects a "straight" preference--even on kid's shows. i make a point of not favoring one orientation over another with my ds. i want him to be happy, and if it's with a man or woman doesn't matter.

and in some countries in Europe, masturbation is seen as a part of a "normal" sex life. the teen pregnancy rates in those countries are much lower than that of the US. i think that speaks for itself.
post #29 of 93
Thread Starter 
I can't speak for everyone else but IMO masturbation is perfectly normal in human beings. Hope that answers the question.

sexual orientation, glad we got there. ITA, that we all automatically assume heterosexuality. I hadn't thought about kids tv shows but that is an interesting point. I think it would be healthy if shows that dealt with relationships ( like teens dating) showed a vider variety of sexual orientation.
post #30 of 93
ITA that our society is very afriad of sexuality. I still remember something we talked about in French class when I was a freshman in high school, and it has affected how I parent DS. The teacher talked about how nudity there was not a big deal. None of us could believe how parents would allow their children to see nudity on TV. The teacher stated that parents there sheltered their children from violence, not nudity, and how here that is backwards. I thought how strange that was for us to do that. Why do we allow children to see thousands of images of violence throughout the years, but cringe if a child sees a pair of naked breasts. It really is quite strange in my opinion.

So with DS, I have a made a point of not making nudity a big deal. If someone in a movie is naked (or partially so) in a nongratidous way I am not going to jump up and fast forward it or anything. In fact many times we watch it without any comment at all. Violence is another issue and something I try to avoid as much as possible. Obviously many of you are going to have similar philophies as thisl.....but it is strange that as a society we are more afraid, it seems of breasts than guns.
post #31 of 93
Over here there are naked women on posters quite often - for like commercials for shower gels, etc . . . it amazes the Germans that the US Americans get all riled up about nudity but seem to have no qualms whatsover about blowing up /shooting etc - and other forms of violence - but whoa - no nudity that's not good!! Masterbation IS normal in children - how we deal with it it determines a lot about their furture sexual experiences - if they feel their bodies are "dirty" or not. Masterbating in public should be taught from early on that it is a private thing, and this little girl in the Kindergarten has a problem - it just amazed me that the sexual taboo was so strong that the teacher couldn't (wouldn't?) recognize it when it was right in her face! I think it is OK for children to masterbate - it is natural - but they should be taught that it is private. When I notice DS has an erection I just ignore it. He is also embarrassed by it. Poor guys - they can't keep it so private as girls can. But I would never teach him that it is wrong. THAT, I believe (as well as most psychologists), is really wrong - teaching our children that parts of them are bad and wrong and evil .
post #32 of 93
Quote:
Originally posted by jannan
you guys are saying that it is ok if children masturbate
Yes, I am saying it is ok and in fact healthy for kids to masturbate.
If I have a girl, I will tell her about masturbation. In the same vein as telling her about menstruation and sex, I will tell her that it is ok to touch herself.
I will mention it to my son, also, but I don't think boys have any trouble discovering masturbation.

mshollyk, I have caught myself assuming a hetero orientation for ds in my thoughts and words. I think it's strange because I have many gay and bi friends and I don't assume anything about adults I meet. I'm consciously changing the words I use in my thoughts and by the time he is old enough to understand, I think I'll have changed my ways.

Zhlake, I know what you mean about the difference between sheltering kids from violence rather than sex. I remember when Titanic came out on video and some stores offered to edit out the scene with the naked breast. That scene didn't bother me at all and I wouldn't mind kids of any age seeing it. But, I would not want kids under about 13 seeing an entire group of people being kept locked below decks to drown simply because they were poor. I'd want them to be old enough to be able to talk about why that happened.

Speaking of sex in movies, when I was 10 or so, my family went to the movie "Coming Home" with Jane Fonda and Jon Voight. My mom made me cover my eyes during the sex scenes. Years later, in my late 20's, my mom and I rented that movie. I didn't remember any of it, except the sex scenes!
post #33 of 93
Or why can't I just let my 3 yo dd run around our yard naked without feeling like she should cover up--because of what the neighbors wil think. Or worse, what if some sicko sees her as a plaything.

Jesse
post #34 of 93
I can appreciate some of what is being suggested, especially in being honest, open and forthright with your children about sex. But some of the other directions of thought have stirred up a slew of questions in my mind.

Where do you draw the line? It seems to me that the measuring stick is "If it feels good do it" with a bit of education thrown in to make sure no one is abused.


If your 10 year old daughter, having been raised openly and honestly about sex and sexuality, came to you and said she wanted to give sexual intercourse a try with, say, the nice teenager next door, what would be your response?

What about incest? If sex is healthy and meant to be enjoyed and expressed in a myriad of ways who's to say that a parent should not fondle his/her little boy to show him the pleasures of sex? Or take away a daughter's virginity?

If your children asked to watch while you and your partner had sex would you feel comfortable with that? If they wanted to join you would that be acceptable?


Why is it we don't have sexual intercourse in public? Or is that just another example of our sexual repressiveness?
post #35 of 93
Thread Starter 
I think you need to reread the WHOLE thread. : :
post #36 of 93
I've read this whole thread and am deeply interested in it. I have always thought that US popular culture is hypocritical in sexual matters. How can we idolize a Pamela Anderson while totally panicking over our relatively high rate of teenage pregancies (at least for the industrialzed world)? We worry about the images our children see while bombarding them with sexual imgaes selling anything?

Anyway, my kids have always been pretty free to discuss sexual things with us. I rarely bothered to dress them when it was hot out and they were babies and they ran around nude for a while. Even now they like to run around without clothes after a bathe or whatever. While I recall they all went through a period where they discovered their penises, I don't recall any cause for concern. It was a period that was relatively short.

Quote:
you guys are saying that it is ok if children masturbate
Certainly. I cannot see why it would not be okay for them to masturbate. Perhaps if they did it to excess or in public ....

Quote:
Where do you draw the line? It seems to me that the measuring stick is "If it feels good do it" with a bit of education thrown in to make sure no one is abused.


If your 10 year old daughter, having been raised openly and honestly about sex and sexuality, came to you and said she wanted to give sexual intercourse a try with, say, the nice teenager next door, what would be your response?

What about incest? If sex is healthy and meant to be enjoyed and expressed in a myriad of ways who's to say that a parent should not fondle his/her little boy to show him the pleasures of sex? Or take away a daughter's virginity?

If your children asked to watch while you and your partner had sex would you feel comfortable with that? If they wanted to join you would that be acceptable
I guess I would have to turn this around and ask you why it is upsetting to have children who are encouaged to be open about sexual questions and matters with their parents. I have not seen and heard of any child who may the kind of questions you are posing. Do you know of any?

Equating sexual awareness in children IMO is not the same as encouraging them to go out and do it for themselves, or even worse make them party to sexual abuse. Many of your arguements have been used for the reasons for circ'ing or against bf (or heaven forbid, ebf).

My hope in being open with my kids is to PREVENT them from abuse, or an unwanted relationship. To encourage them to realize that sex and sexuality is special and not to be dismissed.

Someone mentioned earlier about recognizing that they may be raising a child who may not be hetereo. Dh and I careful about this as well. I want my kids to feel free to be whomever they wish to be and to me being open to the possibility that one of my kids is gay is very important.
post #37 of 93
Quote:
Originally posted by memama
If your 10 year old daughter, having been raised openly and honestly about sex and sexuality, came to you and said she wanted to give sexual intercourse a try with, say, the nice teenager next door, what would be your response?

What about incest? If sex is healthy and meant to be enjoyed and expressed in a myriad of ways who's to say that a parent should not fondle his/her little boy to show him the pleasures of sex? Or take away a daughter's virginity?

If your children asked to watch while you and your partner had sex would you feel comfortable with that? If they wanted to join you would that be acceptable?

Why is it we don't have sexual intercourse in public? Or is that just another example of our sexual repressiveness?
Sex between adults and children is unacceptable. Which is what most of your questions are about. Why is it unacceptable? Because a child doesn't have the experience or understanding of what a healthy sexual relationship is. And an adult can use this naivite (sp?) to manipulate the child into doing something they wouldn't normally seek out. The hard part is I think the age of an adult is a blurry line between 16 and 21. I've known 16 yos that were mature enough to support themselves and raise a family. I've also known 21 yos that couldn't make themselves dinner without burning it or remember to use a condom.
post #38 of 93
Quote:
If your 10 year old daughter, having been raised openly and honestly about sex and sexuality, came to you and said she wanted to give sexual intercourse a try with, say, the nice teenager next door, what would be your response?
Well, first of all I'd be delighted that she felt she could come to me and tell me that. How many children raised in sexually prohibitive homes would ever broach the subject with their parents? Lord knows my mother knew very little about what I was doing behind closed doors, and had even less input into it. I might have appreciated her wisdom had she been able to share any of it.

Then...me and my 10 year old would talk about why she wanted to have sex with that boy, what she thought would come of it, etc. I would listen, not get angry, and I would validate her feelings. And she would probably listen very carefully to my reasons against it (you'll get hurt emotionally, you could get pregnant, you want it for the wrong reasons, etc) because she knows that I have no problem with sex. There is no "agenda" behind my wisdom. Probably she isn't ready for it and wants *someone* to give her a good reason to follow her gut, rather than peer pressure.

If my daughter were older, in a good relationship, and seemed mature enough, I'd probably go with her to Condomania and pick out some funky prophylactics.


Quote:
What about incest? If sex is healthy and meant to be enjoyed and expressed in a myriad of ways who's to say that a parent should not fondle his/her little boy to show him the pleasures of sex? Or take away a daughter's virginity?
Incest is unnatural and unhealthy. Nobody even needs to argue that incest is acceptable. It is pathologic. Sex is to be shared between mutually willing partners. Incest is not that.

Quote:
If your children asked to watch while you and your partner had sex would you feel comfortable with that? If they wanted to join you would that be acceptable?
That is unlikely to ever happen. You have natural instincts that direct you to what is appropriate sex and what isn't (which is why incest is very rare in the animal kingdom). If your child asked the above, you'd be wanting to see a therapist. Children ARE sexual creatures and, as such, possess the same internal check system that adults have. They *know* when certain types of touching are "bad" - they don't even need to be taught that.

Quote:
Why is it we don't have sexual intercourse in public? Or is that just another example of our sexual repressiveness?
Same reason we don't poop and pee in public. Same reason we don't share our deepest feelings with every person we meet on the street. Some things are of a private nature, and sex is one of them. That doesn't make it "bad".
post #39 of 93
I'm getting the sense that things are getting pulled waaaay out of context. Children are sexual beings. This is why very young babies find their genitals and touch them. It feels good. It is supposed to feel good. Children also naturally feel uncomfortable with sexual acts comitted against them. I know I did. This is right. If my daughter came to me about wanting to have sex with someone I would praise God on high that she felt comfortable enough with me to discuss it. The same with my boys. We are teachers and guides in the rocky path of life. If you can't ask your guide a question, why bother following them in the first place?:
post #40 of 93
I think this thread demonstrates our societies problem with being open about sexuality with our children. Some people feel like if we are open about sexuality than we open ourselves up to things like incest and early sexual experiences. There is a difference between being open about sex in a appropriate and inappropriate way. Can we not differntiate between that in our society???
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