opinions about kindercare

[MaShroom]

i'm going back to work soon and i am probably going to put the kiddos in a kindercare center. has anyone had a child in one of their centers? it looks pretty good but i'd love to hear from anyone who has dealt with them. TIA!

[menudo]

This is a very second hand experience but I will share. I have 2 friends who worked there. The ywere paid $6.oo an hour (2 years ago!) and educated teachers got a whole quarter more. One said it was an ok place to wrok but the other worked in the infant room and was fired for calling out -for having the FLU! She hada Doctors note and the supervisors response was "I come in while sick and when I had the flu, so should you!" This has always stayed in my head. For such a high priced place, it is worth checking out hwo the ytreat their employees...

[delighted.mama]

I don't know too much about Kindercare, since we opted to go with different child care, but one of the big things I looked at when researching day cares is the turn over rate for the teachers. Like the previous poster said, you might want to check that out at the facility that you are considering. If the teachers are constantly changing, that means that there is little stability for the kids. It also means that the teachers aren't happy, in which case I would reconsider that particular facility. Also, you want to find out how long the director has been there. That makes a big difference too. Finally, if you can, talk to some other parents IRL who have their kids there. Most facilities, if they are good, will put you in touch with another parent that you can talk to about their facility. If they are unwilling to do that, that should raise a red flag. Oh, you can also ask to come for a tour and spend some time there. Again, if it is a good facility, they won't have a problem with you doing that. You can then kind of get a feel for how the place operates, even if the teachers are on their best behavior when you are there. Just some thoughts! Good Luck

Libby

p.s. also find out what type of background checks they do for their teachers. The better facilities will do a 3-tier background check, i.e., they check not only for federal and state crimes that a person has been convicted of but also for crimes that a person was *arrested* for. Most states require only a 2 tier check, but the better facilities will always run a 3 tier check, since a caregiver may have been arrested numerous times but just never convicted of the crime. That's something that you definitely need to find out.

[MaShroom]

hmmm, good to know. thank you so much for your input.

it figures that they would pay so little. i have had experience with oldest dd in a setting with high turnover and it wasn't good. for some reason i had it in my head that they treated their caregivers better than that. it seems ironic that most of the places that you pay through the nose for are still not passing the funds on to the teachers and or care providers. this is a huge pet peeve of mine but that is a whole other thread.

i didn't know about the 2 and 3 tier background checks. we have been to their facility but you know how that is, all glossy and everyone smiles. : not too much to go on there. i will definitely ask to be put in touch with other parents. thanks for that suggestion.

another provider i met told me that i should call the health department and find out about their violation record.

i feel like if i really delve into any center's history and such i'll end up being absolutely petrified to go back to work. just have to keep looking and hoping.

[Liz]

Originally posted by delighted.mama
Finally, if you can, talk to some other parents IRL who have their kids there.

Try to talk to a parent who no longer has their kids there for what ever reason. I find that parents who have their kids there currently want to believe it's good place so they won't say anything bad about it. Somebody who has moved on, maybe because their kids are in school full-time, will have that 20/20 hindsight, ya know?

i feel like if i really delve into any center's history and such i'll end up being absolutely petrified to go back to work. just have to keep looking and hoping.
delighted.mama

I'm reading "Protecting the Gift" right now and he talks about this common belief that what we don't know can't hurt us and that worrying is the same as taking care. He talks allot about listening to and trusting your gut and worrying just distracts you from that. You have it in you to make the right decisions for your child's safety and well being. Knowledge is power so do the research, ask the questions and listen to your gut. There is good childcare out there, and although it is tough to leave your child, it is SO much easier if you have a child care giver that you trust.

Good luck!

[delighted.mama]

ITA with Liz. I also second the idea of talking to parents who don't have their kids at the center. That's probably a better guage than the parents who have there kids there.

If you do the research and find a center that you are comfortable with (which you will) you will feel A LOT better about going back to work. I know that it is soooo hard, but it is even harder if you know (even if it is only in your gut) that you are leaving your child in a sub-standard environment.

One other thing that I forgot in my original post is that it is better to find a center where the Owner of the center is also the Director. In my search of various daycares, I learned that the centers that are run by the person who owns them is usually run a lot better than the centers where the owner is just the money-person and the director is the person in charge of running things. The reason for this is obvious....when you own it yourself, you have more of a vested interest....it is your profits as well as your good name. Just something to keep in mind when looking.

Although the search for quality daycare can be exhausting, it is so worth the time and effort. Good luck to you. If I think of anything else, I'll let you know.

Just thought of something....most cities have a Daycare Action Council (or some such organization). They have lists of all of the accredited daycares and their records. YOu can also contact the Department of Children and Family Services. They have lists of daycares that are licensed. It gives you a starting point. I generally eliminated anyone who didn't want to go through DCFS and who wasn't recommended by the Council.

If you do a search for daycare, there are a number of sites that will walk you through the search process and give you hints on what to look for and what to ask when you go talk to the director.

Don't forget, there are also some wonderful in-home daycares that are worth checking out. Sometimes they are much better than the commercial daycares. GOOD LUCK!

[sweetfeet]

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[MaShroom]

alrighty then, i think i'll opt for something different. i'm so glad i asked this question! this is going to take a lot more time than i thought it would. i mean i knew it wasn't going to be easy but what an exhausting process. it probably wouldn't be so bad if i didn't have so much else to deal with, i'm walking dysfunction at this point in my life. but it will get better, i will find a care giver that i can trust and it will all work out. my gut will lead the way.

thanks everyone!

[LiamnEmma]

Okay, I think a couple (well, several) things about daycares. One thing you need to understand is that the larger chains, like Kindercare and Tutortime, are franchised, and even though corporate looks over their shoulders, much of the day to day operations are left in the owners hands. So they will all be slightly different, and unless you can verify that the experiences other people have had are directly related to your particular facility, it's not entirely relatable, kwim? But daycare pay rates are low all over in my experience, and you'll find some teachers that don't mind that and others that do. I personally think it stinks...

That said, my ds went to Kindercare as an infant and I liked it. I did not think that the teacher in the 1 year old room was particularly dynamic however, and I didn't like her assistant at all so we left and sent him to Tutortime. We added our dd in the following year. ds did very very well there. dd was fine as an infant and had terrible troubles as a one year old and we left last September. The turnover was skyrocketing and things were bad. We took one of their employees with us (with the blessing of the director) and hired her as our nanny with a hefty raise. Turns out the pay did nothing for her motivation and her skills dropped considerably after she began working for us. : So we're headed back to center-based daycare next school year.

Another question to ask is how many employees the center you choose has on exemption. For example, at Tutortime, they had two employees on exemptions for parking tickets. The offense, of course, would determine your comfort level.

I also wanted to comment on the partying thing. I used to party down, but I was still nice to kids during the day--I didn't work at a daycare, but I babysat plenty of kids, and I don't necessarily think that smoking pot makes you a bad caregiver, as long as you aren't stoned out of your mind while you're watching said children. On the other hand, if you don't get enough sleep, for me personally anyway, that interferes significantly with how well I manage my emotions and how much my abilities drop, so that's a different story...then again, I notice that the most since I've been totally clean and have had children, so even though I'm not high, I'm not necessarily the best person to leave kids with on a day after dd hasn't slept all night, kwim?

Good luck. It's never an easy decision, and it always feels like the lesser of two evils to me.

[Liz]

Originally posted by LiamnEmma
That said, my ds went to Kindercare as an infant and I liked it. I did not think that the teacher in the 1 year old room was particularly dynamic however, and I didn't like her assistant at all so we left and sent him to Tutortime. We added our dd in the following year. ds did very very well there. dd was fine as an infant and had terrible troubles as a one year old and we left last September. The turnover was skyrocketing and things were bad. We took one of their employees with us (with the blessing of the director) and hired her as our nanny with a hefty raise. Turns out the pay did nothing for her motivation and her skills dropped considerably after she began working for us. : So we're headed back to center-based daycare next school year.

This is not exactly a glowing review! You should not settle for this level of care. There are much better daycares, nannies and home care situations than this.

[LiamnEmma]

hmmmm, I really don't think I've settled for anything Liz. I've kept my children in situations for as long as I thought they were healthy, and when I've determined they aren't, I remove them. I did like Kindercare's infant room in that particular center for ds...he was loved and nurtured, etc., and I also liked the rooms after the toddler room. I didn't think he was going to be hurt, I just didn't think he was going to be completely happy there either...it's hard to explain. At any rate, my point was that I suspect that the woman I didn't want him to have later contact with is not at mamathistle's daycare center. I did really like the Tutortime my children were at for my ds. He thrived. dd did as well while an infant. She had the entire staff falling over themselves meeting her needs...so when I say we removed her, it was an immediate response to a situation...not sure where you got the idea I've settled, unless it's me saying that it's the lesser of two evils, and that's in regard to my belief that my children would be happiest, and I would be happiest, if we were all home together...since that's not happening, the next best thing is what we give to them, which ends up being "the lesser of two evils". I do appreciate your concern though, it's one of the things I like about this community...people are always willing to remind us of our priorities and I know I certainly need a wake-up call now and then.

[Liz]

I know I' m leading us a little off topic here but I can't let this drop (many have called me stubborn). Your post LiamnEmma reads to me like "it was good for a while but went bad so we switched" over and over and over. I think with a good daycare or nanny or homecare you can count on more longevity than that. It obviously doesn't bother you and your kids but it would stress me out completely!

ok ds won't let me type he needs a smiley break:


: : :

[Chelly2003]

My son is in Kindercare, and him and I both love it. Perhaps it also depends a lot on each center and not as a whole. As well as the childs age. (my son will be 4 in Aug)

He's been in the center since his 3rd birthday, and although he has moved up to the next class, all the teachers are still the same, and he loves them all.

We had a bad experience at the last day care - probably why I love kindercare so much, it was the first time my son went to day care without crying EVERY DAY (and the last day care he was there from 18 months - 3 years)

My son learns so much at Kindercare, the security is excellent, and he LOVES his Miss Debbie............ (she's older than me and SO like a mommy - I was actually worried she'd be too old to keep up with the kids, but they TOTALLY love her)

I couldn't say enough good things about Kindercare - to me its the best. The teachers at this particular center have medical etc... benefits, but I'm not sure how much they get paid.

Chelly

[LiamnEmma]

Yeah, I think it can be great Chelly, it's all about the individual center you see. I just visited a kindercare (not the one I'd sent ds to, a different one), but I got a yucky feeling from the director...I think it's so much about what fits an individual's and a family's needs. Isn't it nice to drop them off without worry? well, I suppose there's always a little worry.

[glad2bhome]

Just wanted to add, as a former preschool teacher as well as daycare worker, turnover rates are often quite high in the biz. It has to do with low pay rates, young staff, and sometimes, bad directors. But, good places are out there!!! When checking out centers, try to visit twice--first time announced, second time UNANNOUNCED! This should NOT be a problem if the director is proud of her center. Teachers and the director put on their best faces when they know a tour is coming. That said, remember, if you see a teacher having a bad day, it could be just that--a bad day. If you come again, see if she's better. It's the "feeling" you get from the place that you should trust, really. Just my .02

~Melissa

[ChristaN]

I was not too impressed with the Kindercare site that I saw a few yrs back, either, but I'm sure that they will vary from site to site. The problems that I had were the sizes of the room being very small, kids being kept in the same room all day except when they went out to the playground, & low age & experience level of the providers.

We did check out a few centers before my older daughter started preschool for preschool & daycare purposes. I think that the main reason that I went with Seven Oaks Academy (where she is now) is b/c they let parents drop in whenever, it is very bright & clean, the staff is generally well educated (all teachers have BAs & most are child development relevant) & they have various "enrichments" in different rooms. The kids have their main classroom, but they rotate to the enrichment rooms throughout the day - gym, movement, computers, art, etc., so I didn't feel like she would be stuck in one room all day. It seemed more stimulating to me.

[krmom]

In my experience, doing the research to find a center that is high quality is definitely worth the effort in SO many ways. As others have mentioned, most states and counties have referral lists that list all qualified centers. Definitely check with the state to find out about licensing violations--you DO want to know this. Also, there is a national organization called NAEYC that has high standards for accreditation. Most high quality centers are accredited through this program. Individual franchises of corporate centers can be accredited if they meet the criteria, which is quite extensive and requires inside/outside evaluation of many different components (all detailed on the NAEYC website). Also on their website is a list of accredited centers in each state.

My children go to an extremely high quality center. My oldest will be leaving/about to start kindergarten this fall, and has been at this same center since he was 6 months old. Almost all of the children in his classroom have also been there since they were infants.

I could not work if I was not absolutely certain that my children were THRIVING in their childcare center.

Some of things that make our NAEYC center stand out:

very high level of parental involvement (parent advisory group open to all parents that meets monthly with the owners, who are also the directors), lots of parents volunteering in the classrooms on a regular basis, on-going parent appreciation of staff

two teachers in every room (by this I mean two teacher-qualified teachers with BAs in early childhood development)--often centers have 1 teacher and 1 aide in each room. You need hardly any training or experience with children to qualify as an aide.

ongoing staff training and opportunities for development (this can include everything from time for teachers to prepare lesson plans, workshops for all staff, staff encouraged to visit other high quality centers (and paid time to do this), etc. Our center closes 3 days a year for staff to attend workshops and conferences.

High level of pay and benefits for staff--this and all the above means very low turnover for staff. Some staff at our center have been there since the center opened in 1992. Same with families--most have been there since their first child was an infant.

Frequent family/teacher events, usually held at the end of the day. These are wonderful opportunities to meet other families (I can't say enough about knowing other families at the center as a way of ensuring quality), and to get to know the teachers and their families as well.

There is more, but those are major, in my opinion.

Good luck in your search.

[4organicbabes]

I researched the Kindercare by our place when I was switching from home daycare to a center. The three things that bugged me were:

1. It seemed that all of the money you spend to go is spent on marketing materials and glitter to attract new parents. They must have sent four brochures in follow up to my visit.
2. They told me they didn't "do" high chairs. Well, at 12 months my son wasn't proficient in sitting in a chair. I did not like the feeling that they wanted me to push my son on issues - sippy cup, etc. before he was ready.
3. The toddler room was out of ratio when I visited. Now, if tehy can't be in ration for a planned visit, that tells me it is not a priority.

I wound up feeling like there was no daycare out there for my son. So, if you feel that way, know that it is normal. FINALLY, I found a wonderful center (very small - 25 kids total) with a director that had been there for 20+ years and my son's teacher had been there 12 years. One teacher has left since we have been there (6 months) but she left to work with disabled kids which was what she was going to school for. The director is taking over the class until they find a replacement instead of just hiring the first person to apply. Best of luck to you and know that it is a hard and important decision that all of us working moms have struggled with.

[MaShroom]

i've been away from the computer for a couple of days and i was pleasantly surprised to get some more input on this issue. i appreciate everyone taking the time to answer. this is such a tough thing and it is good to hear from other mamas who have btdt.

ok, where i am right now is checking out home daycares. all of the centers are over on the other side of town from where i live. i was thinking about a center in the city where i'm going to work (about 30 min away) but then the kid's dad would have to drive there to pick them up. this whole thing is such a pain in the rumpus. just the logistics are throwing me into a tail spin!

so i have 4 pages of providers to go through from the referral service. this is going to take so long. i saw my 11 yo dd's old provider listed and she is a religious wacko (think religious channel on TV *all day*.) so i know they will list any joe nut. by the way, she hasn't always been a wacko, when dd went there she was a really fun old hippie woman. too bad. anyway, on with the search...

[4organicbabes]

Childcare Resources

I am not sure where you are but, in our state, you can check with Childcare Resources and check on daycares histories - this includes license violations, complaints, etc. This really helped us in our search. They can tell you how many complaints the average daycare in your area gets per year so that you really get a good feel for if a figure is high/low etc. They also, by lawy, have to tell you what the complaint was for in a general sense and some will give you even more details. Hearing those things made me change my mind on a few places that I thought were "just perfect" after visiting them. Sometimes the really good spots are not the most polished but there is the most love there. Not that it should not be CLEAN, but sometimes the place that is almost overly pleasing to the eye is not, infact, the best choice. I would not decide to place my child anywhere without checking the complaint history. Good luck!!! I do have a good (informative quote) from one lady I spoke with at Childcare Resources when I asked her if she would put her own child in a home daycare or a center. She said that, in her opinion, "the best home daycare is better than the best center. But the worst home daycare is worse than the worst center (referring to the lack of other adults to view inappropriate activity and report)". So whatever that counts for!