Skipping a grade

[Suzannah]

After two reptitious years in what is supposed to be an excellent elementary school, we are looking into skipping DD from first grade this year to third next. She has been identified as gifted, reads on a 5th grade level (with comprehenison at 4.5 or so) and does math processes at a 4.5 grade level (not necessarily times tables, etc, but the logical problem-solving aspects). I teach in the district where DD goes to school, and it is a small district, so this is a sensitive issues (the crappiness of the so-called "excellent" teacher she had this year - ). DD and I are currently working on some math from the middle of second grade (a packet of worksheets grudgingly provided by the
*&%^$ teacher), and she has already done all of this work this year - it's just the same thing, over and over.

Pluses and minuses? Anybody skip these particular grades?

[34me]

I couldn't read and not respond. I would loved to have skipped my guy during those years but here it's up to the principal and our's doesn't like it. He just wants to go up the chain in administration. Good Luck!

[ChristaN]

We, too, were hoping to grade skip our older dd who is gifted next year, but were vetoed by the administration who now refuses to skip any child regardless of ability or achievement.

None the less, I would agree that 2nd, 4th and perhaps 6th are good grades to skip if you are going to do so. There tends to be more repetition and reinforcement of previously taught material in those grades.

[meowee]

They wanted to skip me as well but my mother refused. I so dearly wish they had skipped me!

[Suzannah]

This principal is open to it and has skipped students in the past; I teach gifted students in the 6th grade and have had two students who were skipped from 3rd to 5th from her school. DD's dad and I both dropped out of high school; I went on to get a Master's, and he became a master carpenter. We were both bored in school and probably should have left sooner; I want DD to get the best education she can, but I have had to BEG teachers to do their job.

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by Suzannah

... but I have had to BEG teachers to do their job.

You and me both.

[Suzannah]

Originally Posted by ChristaN

You and me both.

I am a public school teacher; I know how hard it is. I get it. Every time I approach a teacher I do it with that in mind. It hasn't mattered one bit. Her current teacher is even gifted certified. Differentiation for different skill levels should be built in to every class; if my daughter was in need of special education services and I got the same run-around I would be perfectly within my rights to sue. So why is the other end of the spectrum ignored?

[BookGoddess]

I skipped third grade about two months into the school year after my teachers told my parents that I was testing at a higher grade level. I had been attending a really good private school in another area but we moved and I was put in the local public school in our new neighborhood. After a long discussion between themselves (which did not involve my participation btw) my parents decided that skipping a grade was best. I was put in fourth grade. From an academic point of view, I didn't have any problems with the course work. It was at the appropriate level for me. Socially, I felt like a bit of an outcast because the other students saw me as some kind of freak since I was this little third grader in their class. But I don't want you to read this as a condemnation of skipping grades. I don't have any regrets about it and I graduated a year earlier thanks to it.

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by Suzannah

... if my daughter was in need of special education services and I got the same run-around I would be perfectly within my rights to sue. So why is the other end of the spectrum ignored?

The TAG coordinator for our home district actually told me that the higher ups in the district were "philosophically opposed" to meeting dd's needs and that "highly gifted students don't last long in the public school system. Have you considered homeschooling?" I had the same thought as you -- if my dd had a learning disability and they told me that they were philosophically opposed to meeting her needs and I should homeschool, they'd have a lawsuit on their hands.

BTW, have you checked out www.nationdeceived.org ?

[Suzannah]

I have heard about it but have not read it. I just bookmarked the site and will peruse it tomorrow.

If I could homeschool, I would. DD wants to. People who run school districts are remarkably short-sighted. We should be trying to keep the brightest students to inject some life and confidence into the systems. I teach an online gifted endorsement class for teachers, and one of the assignments is to research our district policies on gifted education/students. Trouble is, there aren't any. No mention of gifted or accelerated course in our schools, no link to gifted resources, nothing. No stats on who we serve or how we determine who we serve. No procedures. Nothing. I have to give them the things I know from teaching gifted students for four years and doing research above and beyond so I can actually get the answers. The gifted coordinator in our district doesn't even know that we have added subject areas for gifted students in my school; she thought they were still only served in language arts and social studies, but we added math and science also. The district won't even let the gifted department add a link to a gifted website to explain to parents what their options are.

It's chronic. I'm not sure that book will tell me much that I haven't already experienced, but it sure will act as proof!

[mom de terre]

I skipped fourth grade and honestly, I don't think it's a good idea. I was socially isolated until high school as a result. Furthermore, skipping a grade didn't improve the pace or depth of my education. I was just as bored in fifth grade as I would have been in fourth; the students in that class weren't any different than the students in my own class, they were just a year older. In general, if the culture of a particular school doesn't promote a challenging curriculum in one grade, it won't do so in any grade.

I feel for your child and your situation. It is unfair that gifted students don't get the same level of attention as students with learning challenges. However, it's also unfair to blame teachers who are constrained by large classes, limited resources, and the need to show yearly progress on standardized tests. A lot of public education is triage. Fight the real enemy...the administration, and possibly the school board who won't fund an enrichment program.

[Kushali]

I skipped fifth grade and had friends who skipped other grades. I think its easier if you do it early (K, 1, or 2) or later (early college entry).

That said I did fine. I ended up skipping into the honors courses and going on to a top 50 college.

[myjulybabes]

I think it depends on the kid. There's definitely something to be said for social maturity. That said, my birth son skipped first grade, and did, and continues to do, very well. I think his late birthday helped a bit...he's only the youngest in his class by a few months instead of a full year. (born in Nov, cut off here is Aug 1) Academically, he could probably skip another grade, but socially, I don't think it'd go well. He still seems like such a little kid, and the 6th graders I see around here (he's currently in 5th) seem so much more grown-up!

[cloudswinger]

I skipped 5th, but here 6th is the beginning of middle school, so it wasn't that bad of a transition anyway. Everyone just knew me as the smart kid in school, which wasn't that bad to me. I hear that it's the social kiss of death now. Anyway, after that I went on to skip 10-12th to go to college after taking the SATs in 7th. So I agree, if they're that smart, they won't stay in the public school system for long. What parent would want to keep their child down for their entire academic career? Socially, you're a misfit anyway. In middle school I'd read a whole Nancy Drew book in a day. I'd get one from a friend, read it between classes, at lunch, sometimes during class and be done at the end of the day. I remember one day in Algebra class where I was the only one who had done the homework. Out of the whole class, I was THE only one. I still have the certificate the teacher gave me. I think that still makes me a social misfit.

Anyway, I think public schooling is geared towards the least common denominator, the tests are for the minimum required knowledge. I think it's easy to work on the lower end of the spectrum, the needs are quantifiable. There's not really any limit to the higher end of the spectrum.

[Suzannah]

Originally Posted by esylvia

However, it's also unfair to blame teachers who are constrained by large classes, limited resources, and the need to show yearly progress on standardized tests.

Sorry, but in this case I completely disagree with you. DD has 16 children in her class, three of whom are gifted, one of whom is repeating a grade, one ESOL student, two students very slightly below grade level (like by a month), and the rest range from the middle to the upper end of the middle range. This teacher just won't do anything different from what she has done in the past. If you can't differentiate for a class of 16 childrent that you see for 5 hours a day, then you shouldn't be teaching. If I wasn't a teacher in this district also, and I was just a parent, I would have told her that a long time ago. I am supposed to differentiate for my 100 students that I see a couple hours a day; why isn't she?

[Maggie05]

Originally Posted by Suzannah

Sorry, but in this case I completely disagree with you. DD has 16 children in her class, three of whom are gifted, one of whom is repeating a grade, one ESOL student, two students very slightly below grade level (like by a month), and the rest range from the middle to the upper end of the middle range. This teacher just won't do anything different from what she has done in the past. If you can't differentiate for a class of 16 childrent that you see for 5 hours a day, then you shouldn't be teaching. If I wasn't a teacher in this district also, and I was just a parent, I would have told her that a long time ago. I am supposed to differentiate for my 100 students that I see a couple hours a day; why isn't she?

I just want to respond to this. (I don't know about this particular teacher, mind you) However, from your description, it seems that she has 5-6 different levels of students in ONE classroom setting. Hypothetically, let us assume that she spends 15 minutes per day creating a 5 hour lesson for each of her 5 levels of students (she would probably need more like 30 minutes to create a 5 hour lesson, but let's be conservative)

That would be 175 minute per day or 2 hours and 15 minutes. That would be approxiamately 11 more hours of work per week (if she spent 30 minutes per lesson, it would be 22 more hours of work)

I do think the real problem is a system that expects a teacher to magically be able to teach advanced students, esl students, below grade level students, ALL in the same classroom.

Could this teacher be doing more? Possibly, but the classroom that you described seems to be made up of a very disparate group. I feel badly for both the students and the teacher. She may be very jaded from trying to handle such a disparate group, and really has just given up on an impossible task. A task truly no teacher could accomplish.

I hope things work out for your daughter as well, because no one should be bored in school. It really is the system.

P.S. I am a high school teacher with 115 students of all different levels. It is hard to reach and provide stimulating lessons for all kids all the time. A very hard to acheive standard.

[Suzannah]

Originally Posted by Maggie05

I just want to respond to this. (I don't know about this particular teacher, mind you) However, from your description, it seems that she has 5-6 different levels of students in ONE classroom setting. Hypothetically, let us assume that she spends 15 minutes per day creating a 5 hour lesson for each of her 5 levels of students (she would probably need more like 30 minutes to create a 5 hour lesson, but let's be conservative)

That would be 175 minute per day or 2 hours and 15 minutes. That would be approxiamately 11 more hours of work per week (if she spent 30 minutes per lesson, it would be 22 more hours of work)

I do think the real problem is a system that expects a teacher to magically be able to teach advanced students, esl students, below grade level students, ALL in the same classroom.

Could this teacher be doing more? Possibly, but the classroom that you described seems to be made up of a very disparate group. I feel badly for both the students and the teacher. She may be very jaded from trying to handle such a disparate group, and really has just given up on an impossible task. A task truly no teacher could accomplish.

I understand what you are saying, in theory and for a less experienced teacher with no resources and no help. I also know that when a teacher takes a gifted endorsement class they spend at least 1/2 of the year-long class on differentiation: what it is, what it looks like and how to do it. Sometimes it is just a matter of different resources (using books all about penguins, for example, with varying reading levels), curriculum compacting (if my daughter can do multiplication, please don't make her do ANOTHER worksheet on single digit addition; give her something else) or choice (design centers that are for all different levels). She also has an aide for 1/3 of the day, and two hours of planning during the day (not including the time before and after school). She just doesn't want to do it.

It is not easy, but once it is done a differentiated curriculum can work for many, many years. This teacher has also refused to meet with me after her work hours (but will meet with other parents) and has refused to give us different work for homework (until we got the principal involved).

I also disagree with the words I bolded above. It's hard and requires effort, but it is not impossible; otherwise, why bother? All due respect to the hundreds of teachers who do it every day, but many just want to put in their time and go on vacation. I don't think people generally understand how hard teaching is, but I refuse to allow a teacher to just do nothing. It's not magic; it's training, effort and commitment. If you don't know how to do something, learn how to do it so you can be better. It's unprofessional and makes every teacher in the country look bad.

[Sepia]

Originally Posted by esylvia

I skipped fourth grade and honestly, I don't think it's a good idea. I was socially isolated until high school as a result. Furthermore, skipping a grade didn't improve the pace or depth of my education. I was just as bored in fifth grade as I would have been in fourth; the students in that class weren't any different than the students in my own class, they were just a year older.

I skipped second grade and totally agree with esylvia. In hindsight it would have been better for me to have had my education broadened (esp in creative areas) rather than accelerated, kwim.

[Maggie05]

I hear what you are saying, and I do agree with you: the cost of all of this is your daughter's love of learning.

I suppose there are some teachers who are extraordianrily gifted and can accomplish all that is asked of a teacher. I have found that for myself ( a tenured, well-respected, sought after teacher) that since having my own children, I am really not the teacher I once was. I cannot put in the 20 extra hours that it takes to grade 115 essays in one week. I don't have 20 extra hours. I work from 7:15 to 3:15, an 8 hour day in and of itself.

I want to spend evenings reading to my children, eating dinner at the table, going to the park, tucking them in...not grading papers, filling out forms, emailing parents, updating my computerized-online grade book...

I truly think that all that is required of teachers today, (IEP's, NCLB, State testing, Inclusive classrooms, Portfolio creations and assesments, College letters of recommendation (about 50 per year), lesson plans ,curriculum development, Professional development workshops, oh, and did I mention actually teaching students (teens) who are often unwilling to cooperate! etc...) truly is an impossibility, for any human being to accomplish.

This is not to say that THIS teacher couldn't be doing more, it sounds as if she could, and just doesn't want to. And I do know teachers who just put in the time and leave...but really only a few. They do give all teachers a bad name.

Anyway, I realized that I never answered your question. IMHO I think you should consider skipping your daughter one grade. A friend of mine did it with her precocious daughter, and it has been great for them. I think the fact she is a girl makes it an easier decision, as girls are physically and mentally more mature than boys. I wish you good luck, and hope you come to a peaceful decision.

[Suzannah]

Maggie05, I hear what you're saying. It's a lot to know, do and put into practice. I feel the same way as you do; this is my 10th year, and I am considering moving on after it ends. I always said, even before I taught, that teachers should have to take a mandatory leave of absence every ten years to recharge, get training and decide what their next step is. I, too, would prefer to do things with my family when I am not at school, and I am not as prompt with returning work and grading, but in my curriculum design I feel like I owe it to every student in my class to work my bum off to make sure it meets everyone where they are. Until I'm not teaching anymore, I can't give up on that part.

And as an FYI, I have heard that Canada gives teachers a paid year off every seven years. Should've started out there!!