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healing the gut -- april - Page 6

post #101 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by saskiasmom View Post
Cademyn - Im so sorry you're under pressure!! Ok, I did miss the failsafe discussion, but Im assuming you started it as another possible path for your dd's healing? I ask b/c you seemed to have success with the anti-candida/probiotic rich diet. It could be that you have altered your flora whith the probiotics and diet over the past year so that your original symptoms are better but now you have more lower GI stuff. I have come across studies linking IBS to yeast (I dont want to be one of those who think yeast is responsible for global warming, but looking at your history...), maybe your yeast issues were managed with kefir/probiotics and diet, but now with the addition of more sugary carbs the yeast is coming back? (you had diarhea when you started kefir, maybe this is the same in reverse?) Why would you go to VSL#3 rather than back to what worked in the past? I dont think your original symptoms (acne, anal itchiness, etc) need to return for it to be an indication of yeast issues, but again, I dont want to blame yeast for everything, just mention the possibility. Did the candida diet and kefir stop working?

As for a naturopath, I think you know as much or more than they would. I would recomend a kinesiologist if you can find a good one (which is always the trick with natural healing it seems). I have a great one who can test all sorts of food and supplements but also get a read on various parts of the body and whats going on. Do you know of anyone where you are?

Can you remind me what your symptoms were when this started? If I remember, you started all this b/c of dd's symptoms but then realized you had issues to that were helped by the candida protocal?
At this point I'm not sure I ever did have yeast issues. I definitely had digestive issues, and some symptoms that were probably related to poor liver & adrenal function. I think the candida diet helped for a couple of reasons: 1) because it was really nutrient dense and incorporated lots of good fats, and 2) because it eliminated lectins (found in grains, nuts, and legumes, among other foods) and lowered dietary levels of some food chemicals, both of which can cause a multitude of health problems as well as "candida overgrowth" symptoms. But the more fermented foods I added the more digestive problems I seemed to have (gas, bloating, stomach rumbling, and occasionally a bit of diarrhea). I eventually figured out that a food chemical called amines, which fermented foods are high in, was causing the digestive problems. That's why I had problems when I added grains in, because they were all soaked or sourdough and had lots of amines. When I stopped the fermented stuff and stopped soaking my grains, the gas went away, but I started having digestive problems with certain unsoaked grains, and that eventually progressed to having digestive problems with all grains, even white rice, and potatoes, which were fine for a couple of months.

So I don't want to go back to the candida diet because it didn't truly fix the issues, and certainly didn't help DD. I would like to eventually start small amounts of beet kvass or water kefirs, but they aren't allowed on the Failsafe elimination diet due to the amines. I think the diarrhea I initially had from the water kefirs was either an amine reaction or some sort of histamine reaction, not die-off. I also think the reason that many people can never truly get off the candida diet without having symptoms return is because candida was never their primary issue, they were reacting to lectins or food chemicals, and when they start adding those foods back in, of course their symptoms return.

I did start Failsafe to try to help DD as she reacts to odd foods that are high in salicylates like squash and zucchini, and also because I know I react to amines in chocolate and in the fermented foods.

I took DD to a health kinesiologist once and it was very, very weird...so I'm not interested in that anymore. I might consider an applied kinesiologist, but they're all expensive so that'd be more of a last resort type of thing.

My initial symptoms were horrible gas, acne, horrible low blood sugar, mild depression, some fatigue, and the itching.
post #102 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapayaVagina View Post
Sure

Since birth dd has always had (except for maybe 3 exceptions) green or dark yellow/orange, peanut butter consistency poop that smells horrible like vinegar or sometimes even ammonia.

She is exclusively breastfed. I started with no dairy and then at 2 months old went to no wheat. For a month I did no dairy, wheat, soy, egg, nut, shellfish, tomato and beans - no improvement. Did TED x1 week this last week and things almost seemed to get worse.

She gets probiotics x2 a day and I take omegas, CLO, and probiotics as well.
Is it possible that she could have a bad bacterial overgrowth, like c.difficile? That's supposed to have a pretty awful (and distinctive) smell, and is pretty difficult to get rid of it. Basically you either have to treat it with strong antibiotics and anti-fungals or strong natural antimicrobials (both of which basically destroy all the gut flora) and then replace the gut flora with something like VSL3...the book "Bacteria for Breakfast" talks about this.
post #103 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by saskiasmom View Post
When I cheat, nothing changing; i.e. I dont have worse symptoms, and actually, my original yeast stuff got markedly better when I started eating grains, however, I know that grains are hard on the gut so I mostly avoid them to help heal the gerd
What grains are you referring to specifically, and how are you eating them? Are they refined or sprouted, etc?
post #104 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by newcastlemama View Post
You have done so much for dc s. When he says "normal" eating, what does that mean? I ask because we will never eat "normal" again since we do NT. I agree that you probably have a lot of knowledge and a naturopath won't help. What diet did you do best on (even if it was not a good one for dc)?

You think overeating made things worse? Do you want to tell us more about that? Hmmm. Could you eat slower and chew a long time. That is supposed to help digestion. I don't know much about IBS though. The Maker's Diet may have some insight since he had Chron's.

Could it be stress? I know someone who had Chron's symptoms while going to law school and then it went away. I know it would stress me out if I had a date to heal by, or my dh was deployed, or my dc still had some health issues despite my best efforts to help them. s Jen
"Normal" eating...I guess NT style although he thinks some of the NT ideas (like soaked grains and ferments) are wacky, and I know he wants to be able to occasionally eat out or accept dinner invitations without worrying about how healthy the food is. He wants me to be able to eat the things DD reacts to but if I can eat everything else I think he'd be okay with me not eating those things.

I probably did best on the candida diet although I definitely still had some issues. It didn't help DD at all, though, and in fact I think her eczema and at least some of her food intolerance are directly related to the candida diet.

Overeating...basically I felt deprived and so when I would cheat on the candida diet (and also when I started adding in grains) I would binge (to the point where someone I know thought I was pregnant!) : I started having problems with low stomach acid after a week or so of binging over Labor Day, and had more problems start after binging off and on for a while, a couple of months ago. I have definitely learned my lesson in that area.

I don't think stress caused this but it may be making things worse. I mostly stress over the digestive problems and DD's eczema.
post #105 of 268
cello: There are few things I don't agree with SCD. The use of ripe banana and honey is one of them. Every yeast book that I read has its own recommendation and recipe, with or without an explanation. For an example, one will say it is ok to use Stevia where SCD is concerned about its nature and affect on children. But, Elaine approves for kids who can not tolerate honey. One book will say you can grow yeast on a single drop of Stevia, and others will not recommend any use of honey or Stevia. One will say "No beans" but SCD will have lists of beans you can eat (after soaking, and not at intro stage.) And the list goes on: apples, avocado, corn, tofu, mushroom, rice, potato... However, SCD is unique, and it works on its own philosophy: Simply, “No polysaccharide.” The banana controversy was hot on other web board, along with ‘which tomato juice?’

Many kids who get on the SCD have badly damaged gut with various diagnoses and conditions. Many can not tolerate disaccharide (mainly the lactose) or monosaccharide—like my kids. I started with a long list of fruits that they couldn’t eat. The only dairy we ate at first was the SCD yogurt, and I had to use egg substitute.

My guess of SCD approving a use of honey is the recipes are mostly for kids, and honey is monosaccharide, just as in fruits and veggies. Other yeast/Candida diet (mostly written for the woman) will not recommend any use of honey at their first stage, and some will say “No fruits” until you can move on to the next stage of healing.

I have a lot of beekeepers here where I can get raw honey. Unfortunately, the only sugar my kids could eat w/o flaring up was corn syrup, which is not permitted on SCD. Until my kids’ eczema were cleared, and had good BM everyday, I only gave them fruits that were low in sugar, and only in the morning. I baked only on an occasion with ripe pare (bake it or put them in a blender for cookies and cake.) When I made the SCD pancake, I used freshly yellow banana, before it is too ripe; and avoided feeding them twice or two days in a row.

In my opinion, the less sugar intake at the beginning of the healing stage (that is until the BM is regulated with good quality) will give you a better success rate, although, it is difficult with children who were already eating a lot of sugar. This is another reason why the intro stages are important factor in SCD. I also believe doing the SCD intro stage before you get on any anti-Candida diet will give you a better success rate. If you are an adult, not expecting or BFing, I would consider a mild detox, too.

You can add baked and peeled fruits at first after the intro, but I think you will have a better success with less sugar intake, more green veggies less meat and organic. I have to say the catalyst was the SCD yogurt and finding a skilled use of the enzyme. But, here’s a kick: I don’t believe we could have had this success unless I did all that in combo, plus more: I took most of the synthetic material out of our life that were potentially putting extra load on their immune system. For an example, we took the carpet off, and installed air cleaner in our previous house. If you need a new drape, get silk or cotton curtain. If you need to paint your wall, use low or no VOC paint, like “Harmony.” If you need a new bed, look into organic cotton or wool Futon. Avoid using chemical cleaner: There are tons of natural recipes on web to clean whatever. Change your tooth brush every month, and wash your teeth first thing in the morning, and before you go to bed. I use toothpaste with tea tree in it for myself and DD5. My son doesn’t like the taste of it. Wash toys often, sunbathe things you can’t wash, and vacuum stuffed animals and pillows. The vacuum called Boss with HEPA filter is what I have, and love it. And, get a lot of house plant, especially in the winter. Oh, ear candling is another good practice on your kids.

Another charm of SCD is the menu can be easily incorporated with the concept of Food Combining Chart. You will destroy the alkaline balance if you eat too much protein, especially red meat. It is easy to over eat protein on SCD, and you must avoid becoming too acidic. The body that is high on acid level hosts the yeast and bad bacteria the best. SCD now approves fermented foods which I am so glad. I always used various herbs with SCD when we are sick. (However, its use was very specific and limited.) The SCD doesn’t mention the benefit of bone broth or hot soup. “Nourishing Traditions” and “Eating of Garden” (or maybe the cook book “Bone”?) will explain about the benefits of bone broth. Another thing that SCD don’t mention is the benefit of green juice. The new web site speaks a little under the anti-Candida remedy, but I think they were suggesting it to add raw garlic in your diet. I make my veg juice with garlic and ginger. I always add the pineapple core on the kids. They won’t drink the garlic or ginger.

When I first found the Healing the Gut tribe, many were on SCD. I took a long break from the tribe since I knew what I wanted to run with it, and it was time to focus on the cooking. Then, we got off the SCD for two months last summer due to construction, packing, cleaning, moving, selling the house, etc, etc. It took two months to go back to the point where the kids could not eat eggs or any fruits, and the weight loss was obvious. That was when I started to make SCD yogurt like a mad scientist (but in my new kitchen ) It has been about 7mo. since we got back on the SCD. The kids are eczema free with good, daily BM. My DD5 can eat all the flair up foods in rotation. My DS3 is still sensitive with some of the foods high in sugar. We still do not eat coconut flakes and honey.

Now I am fermenting veggies, ready to order Kefier grain for grass fed organic milk (if any one has an advice on how to choose a grain, please let me know), Natto (fermented soy beans), sea vegetables, etc, etc.

I’m so sorry this got so LONG! It is so hard to explain something a little bit.

Isn’t it time for us to have our own Healing the Gut Tribe Conference? I would love to meet all and hear your stories. And, I’m sure everybody would love to hear the whole story of JaneS. Too bad that Goodpapa is no longer with the power of probiotic.

Thanks for reading!
post #106 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cello View Post
Papayavagina

Anectodal evidence at best, but let me throw this out there: my DS did not have any visible issues at first. Gentian violet gave him green poops, but was for the most part asymptomatic otherwise. He was gaining weight like crazy as well, and imho, interventions are not always the best options, sometimes, time is our best ally. But I noticed when he started on solids, on days he had more BM than others, he would have a worse(but never as bad as when on pure BM) BM(bowel movement this time . Which lead me to think I needed to fix myself since I was exacerbating whatever problem he had in his gut. If I'm not mistaken, you probably had tons of Abx in your system from the c/s and the wound dehiscence, etc. Maybe yeast is your issue, and it is manifesting itself in the poops in your child? Food alone won't make it better, especially if it is heavy in the starches that you get with the restricted diets(IE rice).
This is what I feel is our problem. I think dd is fine, but my leaky gut is making her react. I'm hoping that once she is off BM, she will do much better. She has started "solids" as she was very interested in them and I feel that I have a very low supply and she isn't getting enough. I really believe she is hungry. Well, since doing the mashed foods, her poops have been okay. Less mucusy when she has eaten, say 5-8 spoonfuls, of mashed fruit or veggies.

I don't know how much harm I am doing to both her and I by being on such a restrictive diet. I often wonder if it's made things worse...
post #107 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by greencat View Post
And, I’m sure everybody would love to hear the hole story of JaneS. Too bad Goodpapa is no long with the power of probiotic.

Thanks for reading!
I would like to hear JaneS's whole story too! And...perhaps I missed this somewhere, but whatever happened to Goodpapa?
post #108 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluets View Post
just a shot in the dark... have you ever tried putting the probiotics on her bottom instead of in her mouth? i just heard a chiropractor recommend that - the critters then don't have to survive stomach acid.

are her probiotics dairy-free?

have you tried having a fecal test done on her? vinegar and ammonia are both byproducts of anaerobic respiration done by some microbes. it sounds like she's got an imbalance in her gut flora.

the green color means that it is racing through her system and not being digested. the orange color means that it is only being partially digested but more so than the green color.

do YOU have any symptoms?
i guess i don't understand how putting probiotics on her bottom would do anything? she doesn't have a rash or anything, it's just poo stuff.

her probiotics are supposed to be dairy free. they are the solaray ones.

i haven't done a fecal test on her because our provider wouldn't do one . we've always assumed that it was an imbalance of her gut flora. would that test give us more info?

i don't have any symptoms at all, but i do have a history of food allergies myself with oral allergy syndrome, MSG and sulfites.
post #109 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by greencat View Post

My guess of SCD approving a use of honey is the recipes are mostly for kids, and honey is monosaccharide, just as in fruits and veggies. Other yeast/Candida diet (mostly written for the woman) will not recommend any use of honey at their first stage, and some will say “No fruits” until you can move on to the next stage of healing.
Actually the SCD was initially designed for digestive disorders like ulcerative colitis and later adopted for use by many in the ASD community. So I don't think the honey is allowed because of kids, but just because it's a monosaccharide.
post #110 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cello View Post
Papayavagina

Anectodal evidence at best, but let me throw this out there: my DS did not have any visible issues at first. Gentian violet gave him green poops, but was for the most part asymptomatic otherwise. He was gaining weight like crazy as well, and imho, interventions are not always the best options, sometimes, time is our best ally. But I noticed when he started on solids, on days he had more BM than others, he would have a worse(but never as bad as when on pure BM) BM(bowel movement this time . Which lead me to think I needed to fix myself since I was exacerbating whatever problem he had in his gut. If I'm not mistaken, you probably had tons of Abx in your system from the c/s and the wound dehiscence, etc. Maybe yeast is your issue, and it is manifesting itself in the poops in your child? Food alone won't make it better, especially if it is heavy in the starches that you get with the restricted diets(IE rice).
Interesting.

We did have a lot of abx when dd was born but I did not have a wound dehiscence.

Would the yeast only show up with her through me? I don't have any symptoms myself at all. I have been on probiotics myself also as well as kombucha and water kefir.

I am definitely leaning towards the rice being a big part of this since I've been using the "no wheat" products that are mostly rice .
post #111 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by saskiasmom View Post
PV - what about SCD? I dont know much about it except what Ive read here, but Im thinking of LovinLiviLou who has had success with her dd when she switched to that diet..
I'm probably going to have to try either that or a rotation diet next once I take a day or 2 to just take a breather I think. At least I can have some cheese with it

We are going to see a naturopath on Thursday so hopefully he will help us some.
post #112 of 268
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by caedmyn View Post

I did start Failsafe to try to help DD as she reacts to odd foods that are high in salicylates like squash and zucchini, and also because I know I react to amines in chocolate and in the fermented foods.
are you close to determining anything beyond amines as culprits? or do you still have to finish the "detox" phase before introducing things?
post #113 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluets View Post
are you close to determining anything beyond amines as culprits? or do you still have to finish the "detox" phase before introducing things?
is there a list or a link somewhere that has a comprehensive list of foods with salicylates in them? since she mentioned the squash and zucchini (which was a major part of my diet last week) i'm wondering about those as well.
post #114 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by caedmyn View Post
c.difficile? That's supposed to have a pretty awful (and distinctive) smell,
c-dif smells sickly rotten sweet, not vinegary/ammonia. vinegar would indicate fermentation? (...yeast?).

(now jane, don't tell anyone to send me poo...)
post #115 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluets View Post
are you close to determining anything beyond amines as culprits? or do you still have to finish the "detox" phase before introducing things?
I'm not even sure we have problems with amines, other than knowing I was eating way more of them before than my body could handle. All food chemicals are detoxed in the liver and everyone has a finite capacity to detox food chemicals. Some people just have a very low tolerance, which is what Failsafe is designed to detect. We have to do another couple of weeks on the elimination diet before we can trial stuff. I can't say I've really noticed any differences since we've been on Failsafe but I think we won't really know until we do the challenges. If DD's eczema totally clears that might tell us something, but it could also mean that she was reacting to a food that the diet eliminated rather than food chemicals.
post #116 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapayaVagina View Post
is there a list or a link somewhere that has a comprehensive list of foods with salicylates in them? since she mentioned the squash and zucchini (which was a major part of my diet last week) i'm wondering about those as well.
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~ataraxy/...ates_list.html has a partial list...apparently a lot of foods haven't been tested although many common foods are on that list. I've been reading that salicylate sensitivity can lead to food allergies, as well as causing "yeast overgrowth" symptoms.
post #117 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by caedmyn View Post
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~ataraxy/...ates_list.html has a partial list...apparently a lot of foods haven't been tested although many common foods are on that list. I've been reading that salicylate sensitivity can lead to food allergies, as well as causing "yeast overgrowth" symptoms.
Well that sucks. It looks like fruits and veggies decrease their salicylate content as they ripen. I have OAS (oral allergy syndrome) so cannot eat fruits and veggies (most of them anyway) once they ripen. Bummer.

Has anyone ever done SCD while also avoid salicylates? It seems like a lot of the stuff allowed on SCD is high in salicylates.

I'm not even sure which diet to start first
post #118 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapayaVagina View Post
I'm probably going to have to try either that or a rotation diet next once I take a day or 2 to just take a breather I think. At least I can have some cheese with it

We are going to see a naturopath on Thursday so hopefully he will help us some.

PV - we had luck with SCD, though minus egg and dairy (DD couldn't tolerate any amount of these). After a month, she was way better (as was I, though I never thought I had problems to start with), but the first 2 weeks were way bad (brain fog, emotional basketcase, etc from die-off). However, after a few months we hit a hard place, which I later figured out was because I was overdoing the high amine/salicylate foods (most especially coconut, honey, almonds, cinnamon). To answer some of your earlier posts, I don't think it is possible to do a complete FAILSAFE and SCD diet for a long period of time- I don't think you could get enough nutrients. But you probably could do SCD and avoid the foods in the "high" catagories.

If I were starting over again knowing what I know now, I might just avoid foods I knew were bad triggers, do a rotation diet for everything else (check out the ones JaneS posted in the sticky) and dive heavy into the enzymes world. I'm just now really getting into enzymes (I dabbled before, but now I'm focused), and I'm really optimistic that this is a better answer than just avoiding everything. I'd really recommend you get DeFelice's book (the one titled something like Digestive Wealth).

Alternatively, if you go the SCD route, I'd recommend doing the intro diet for about a week and keeping a copius food log of EVERYTHING you put in either mouth (I think mine is now something like 100 pages typed) and every reaction.

Also - I think it was you who asked about allergy testing. I went this route with the blood RAST test, and it showed nothing (and I had put soooo much hope that it would give me answers). I think I needed to do it to get the doubt out of my mind, though. And in a weird way, it made me more determined to try to figure this stuff out. We are making good progress, including weight gain and virtually no digestive or eczema symptoms, but we just can't get this little girl to grow taller! She is still at 26 inches at 10 months . . .
post #119 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by greencat View Post
Oh, ear candling is another good practice on your kids.

I had a coworker mention this to me recently, and I thought she was crazy! What is the benefit of this, and how did you get started?

And thank you for making the post so long/informative. I know you are having success with SCD, and it helps to see the perspective because I read vicious cycle twice, and the book was too short to be informative imo. I have looked online quite a bit, and I agree with you regarding the balance between too much protein(too acidic), and the pitfall of too much sugar(i think this is very easy on scd- and a problem for me b/c that is what DH has been most responsive too: cutting out all sugars). I question NT's push on raw milk. I grew up on yogurt/yogurt drink the way milk is drunk here in the states. I am still researching, so I am keeping my final judgment on that open for now. Have any moms here had kids that were not allergic to milk on the healing threads? I don't recall any.
post #120 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapayaVagina View Post
Interesting.

We did have a lot of abx when dd was born but I did not have a wound dehiscence.

Would the yeast only show up with her through me? I don't have any symptoms myself at all. I have been on probiotics myself also as well as kombucha and water kefir.

I am definitely leaning towards the rice being a big part of this since I've been using the "no wheat" products that are mostly rice .
Sorry, I thought I had read you had postop complications(early senility is setting in, oh my

I have never had a vaginal infection in my life, but I got a great ole yeast infection in my breasts that took months to heal(gotta love those abx). I had to have had a yeast issue that just wasn't manifesting itself visibly to me. My digestive system is fully developed, DS is not. So I think it was easier for him to manifest symptoms. It was my body's way of saying: hey, I still have yeast going on in my system(even if they are no longer in the breast/visible/obvious). ykwim?
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