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Girls and "relational aggression"  

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
I am reading the book Odd Girl Out right now and I'm getting so upset! It's all about relational aggression in girls -- that verbal and non-verbal bullying, exclusion, ostracism and general nastiness that occurs in pre-adolescent and adolescent girls (and even younger). Honestly, reading the book makes it sound like all schools (particularly middle and upper-middle class predominantly white schools, but also urban) function this way and it's rampant and out of control. That all these girls are just swept up into this very mean, painful social network, and are not secure enough in themselves, and are fearful enough of "being alone" that they can't escape it. That our society teaches girls that relationships are important above anything else (and therefore being alone is awful, feeding into cliques and exclusion), and doesn't teach them how to adequately express negative emotions such as jealousy or anger, bottling it up in them. The author says it is insidious and literally invisible and so hard to even address because of this.

Yikes!

I remember some mild stuff happening in my school a million years ago, but nothing this severe. Did you all have awful experiences? How bout your girls?
post #2 of 15
I don't know about the book (but going to look into it now) but I can tell you that those things described in your OP were completely the norm happening at my school in the early 80's.

It was bad. Especially the Exclusion/Silent Bullying type of thing. (I don't recall any physical fights ever).

Unfortunately, it doesn't just happen w/ kids. I'm an adult now and those type of women are rampant in my workplace. Very cliquey, and very exclusionary. Maybe it's just this specific workplace, b/c I have been working all my life and this is the first job where I see it that bad. But the irony is that I am back in the area where I went to grade school and high school (I lived in other parts of the country for 12 years before moving back to this area).

But overall, I do think it's a wretched and insidious problem. :
post #3 of 15
keep working your way through the book. I saw what the author described, though I don't feel it was *that* bad at my school in the 1980s. I do think Jr. High is a particularly bad time of life.

A nice complement to all of those books though is Neufeld: Hold on To Your Kids. I feel a lot of the problems are lack of adult attachment and role models through the teen years. My girl is only 4 though so we'll have to see how things play out.
post #4 of 15
I was that Odd Girl Out. So I don't think it is worse. It is simply less accepted and more noticed.

Hell, one of the worst girls to me became a teacher. I cringe whenever I think about it.
post #5 of 15
Jr High was like a shark pit!

It can bad, so so bad.
post #6 of 15
I was a complete freak in high school, and most of the kids were at least wary of me, if not out and out afraid of me. I had a total of one female friend in my grade, and that wasn't until my second year (9th grade - our high school was 8-12). So, most of this didn't affect me - exclusionary crap made no difference to me, because I simply wasn't interested in hanging out with them, anyway.

But, it definitely went on. I could see it from the outside, and it made me want to puke. I was in 8th grade in 1981, so it's been a while...
post #7 of 15
Yeah, that kind of stuff totally went on at my school. I was lucky to be part of the "invisible class" of students -- not popular enough or "freakish" enough to be noticed much. People on both extremes of the popularity spectrum were treated pretty cruelly at times.
post #8 of 15
I haven't read the book. From your description, it sounds like it very accurately describes some phenomena that are common, BUT it makes them sound universal and constant.

My impression is that maybe 2% of females really thrive on relational aggression and use it as their main method of structuring their social lives. A majority of girls go through one or more phases of experimenting with RA but don't get into it heavily in the long term. In any large group, RA swirls up from time to time, becoming a big problem that involves many of the females (and sometimes males) for a while, but then 98% get tired of it and choose to be friends with those who interact more positively with them and ignore those who don't. A sort of critical mass of refusal to participate in RA gets it to stop working for a while.

My personal experience: I was a "weird" and shy kid, often excluded, sometimes openly harrassed, BUT at least 60% of the negative attention came from boys. For example, I was terrible at sports; it was mostly boys who yelled taunts at me during gym class. All the physical violence against me (tripping, shoving, hair pulling) was done by boys. Most of the times something was set up to startle or embarrass me, although girls might be in the crowd summoned to prepare to laugh, a boy was in charge. Both sexes would invite me to join their group project and then make me do all the work while they goofed off, but hey--much as I resented it, that was an acknowledgement of my superior brainpower. The only thing I can think of that girls did to me and boys didn't was to establish emotional intimacy with me so that I would tell some of my secrets, and then use those secrets to embarrass me. While that was extremely upsetting, it couldn't be done without telling me some of their secrets too, so the means of retaliation was obvious...and also, telling my secrets meant they had to admit they'd been hanging out with me, which threatened their own social status!

There were big swirls of RA in 3rd grade (some girls had a "club" that excluded others and projected a strong attitude of superiority) and 6th grade (one girl had a grudge against another, and all girls had to take sides) but I was not a focus of either one. I was excluded in 3rd and didn't care all that much; my neighborhood friend secretly continued to play with me and told me about the inner workings of the club, and it sounded dumb. In 6th, I was on the "side" that eventually decided to take the high road, quit attacking, maintain loving tolerance within our ranks, and welcome all defectors.

I think there are several ways to stop RA from getting to you too much:
1. Have multiple social networks. When one goes down, you still have the others. This is something I didn't really have myself as a kid in a small town where you encounter the same people whatever activity you join, but I got a lot out of my relationships with long-distance cousins and pen-pals. I envy my Girl Scouts, who attend 6 different schools among the 8 of them (and 2 who are at the same school are in different grades) so can use each other as sounding boards and sources of impartial advice on their social problems at school!
2. Be loved and valued by your family and feel safe at home. I did have this most of the time.
3. Have strong interests that you can pursue on your own, so that if everybody hates you this week, at least you have something to fill the time.
4. Be allowed to go places and do things by yourself. If you are not allowed to leave the house unless accompanied by family or friends, and people taunt you for being seen in public with your family, and all your friends have turned against you...there is nothing to do but stay home obsessing over your problems. But if you can go out for a hike alone or do a vital errand for yourself, you can gain strength and confidence and maybe find a fresh perspective.
5. Have at least one important woman in your life who is NOT teaching you to be a frightened female.
6. Have teachers, parents, Girl Scout leaders, and other supervisory adults who, when RA is visible to them, DO SOMETHING about it, don't just shrug it off, don't tell you it's your fault, and especially don't participate in it themselves!!!

Try not to worry too much. Think in terms of teaching positive skills. Don't try to protect your daughter; build her immunity, and be ready to comfort her when something gets through it.
post #9 of 15
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the replies. EnviroBecca, THANK YOU! I soooo needed to hear some reasonable, reassuring words on this. DD1 will be starting kindergarten in the fall, and I've struggled a lot with whether to send her or not, given her late bday. We've decided to do it, mostly because she got in to our open school, and it's by lottery, and we didn't want to chance not getting in next year. she seems very ready, but i also see her as very peer-oriented, putting so much stock in friendships and relationships, working so hard in this regard. i love your advise about having multiple groups of friends, and outside activities. it makes so much sense. more sense than, say, the large plastic bubble i was considering purchasing to put my kids in till they're 30.
post #10 of 15
I was the outcast of my class for several years, for as long as I can remember. This lasted through grade school all the way through high school (at least in high school I found some other outcasts to hang out with).

I do think a lot of it stems from not just a lack of healthy adult attachments, but the examples that women set. Honestly, junior high is just like real life, only in a much more exaggerated way. I think that a lot of girls learn the behavior from their moms - they may execute it a bit differently, but the gossiping about "Oh my GAWD... did you see what she was wearing/what social faux paux she committed/what she did that was out of the norm?" and banding together is something I see a LOT of adult women do. It's just not to the same extreme.
post #11 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by gargirl View Post
Jr High was like a shark pit!

(
What a perfect description!
post #12 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnviroBecca View Post

1. Have multiple social networks. When one goes down, you still have the others.
You've given great advice. This part articulates something for me implicitly that I've always sort of known was a good idea. It explains how I survived college over my freshmen roommate and her sorority!
post #13 of 15
I've read that book too and my GF is a jr high school teacher and can verify that it is indeed that bad right now. In fact, she is dealing with this kind of crap on the softball team she coaches. It is making for a rough season because the girls just cannot get over it and are constantly making comments under their breaths or finding ways to put each other down that could look innocent on the outside.
post #14 of 15
When these situations crop up among my Girl Scouts, the biggest problem I have is my strong urge to take a side. Usually it seems very clear to me that one girl or group is doing bad stuff, and another girl or group is the victim. I feel so angry at the "bad" one, it's hard to speak to her in a way that expresses any belief that she is really a good person who means to be kind to others but happens to have gone in a bad direction just now. Instead I feel like she is just evil to the core (even if I liked her last week!) and honestly I'm a bit afraid of her. I realize, too, that RA is so notoriously invisible that I may be unaware of what the "victim" has been up to! I struggle to focus on the behavior rather than labeling the person.

But for every ugly RA incident, we've had many times when they all get along well, treating every other girl in the troop as equally valuable and equally desirable as a companion. I am so pleased with that!
post #15 of 15
i havent read odd girl out. i loved 'queen bees and wannabees', which has a similar theme, and believable ways parents can help. if you are interested, i definately reccomend this read.

and yes, i think it can be really bad. i think it is hard for people to beleive if they werent very affected by it, but seriuosly, if you witness it, you play a roll, and you have important choices to make about how to respond. ('the bully the bullied and the bystander' is another good read on the topic)

i personally am totally emotionally messed up still by things that happened in elementary school. they have shaped me in very negative ways. for example, i never ever did my school work, and no one could figure out how to get me to do it, including myself. but both the books i mentioned talk about how impossible it is for a tormented kid to concentrate on anything other than the next social ineraction and praying it goes better than the ones before. i wish someone had picked up on this. having never done a lick of schoolwork has significantly affected my self esteem and earning potential. luckily i graduated because im smart enough to pass tests. and someday i will figure out how to help myself out of this recurring depression.

for me, making sure my child isnt bullied isnt the only important part of the equation. i dont want her involved in ANY way. i want her in a school where the faculty and parents see this as an important issue that effects everyone, including those who just quietly stand by and watch, and she sees us all working towards this end. because of all this, i seriously considered home school. but i realized the homeschool thing was about me, protecting her from what was actually my past, not her current reality. she wants to be at school. so evry day i suck it up and take her.

personally, i would find out where the school stands on this issue, and keep your eyes wide open, but try to stay relaxed about it, and get mor info on how to respond (calmly) when your kid needs you, either because shes been a witness, or bullied, or the bully. i tthink enrolling your kid a school that seems right for her is the right thing to do. if she ends up seeming young because of her late b day, is repeating k an option? i was a november baby and that definately affected me socially, although academically i would have been just dandy if id been able to get myself to do the work.

keep paying atention mama, that is key.
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