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Has this happened to anyone here? - Page 2

post #21 of 53
I have seen vaginal exams done over screaming protests with nurses forcefully pulling someone's legs open, and internal monitors placed the same way. I have not seen an IV forced, or a catheter - but definitely seen the scare tactics and coercion used. Mostly, this was during my training, because now I'm in charge .

I've almost never had a woman refuse something I felt was necessary - now that is either a testament to my ability at explaining things, or to how well-conditioned women are to listen to me, an authority figure, during their births. Almost always, though, there is plenty of time for explanations and true informed consent. If something is not an emergency (and the grand majority of the time, anything I want to do is not an emergency) I always start the conversation with "You are fine and the baby is fine. We don't need to do anything urgently, but here are some options" and then explain what I think. Often, this is a situation where labor has stopped progressing, or the baby is showing some mild signs of distress, or something like that and I want to offer options. Sometimes folks agree with me, sometimes they don't, but always it is the woman who calls the shots.

The rare occasion where there is a true emergency, I try to talk out loud the whole time about what I am seeing, what I think needs to be done, and how it will feel. Only once can I remember participating in a situation which felt a little like an assault to me. It was a severe, torrential postpartum hemorrhage that just wouldn't stop, and I was trying to do some bimanual uterine massage as blood gushed so fast that the nurse asked me if a faucet was left on hearing it. Unfortunately, that is a procedure that hurts like he!!, and the woman was saying "Stop it, stop it, you're hurting me!" I was explaining out loud and apologizing out loud, and really didn't feel like there was any option at this point while the woman was bleeding to death in front of me. As the bleeding slowed, the woman became faint and lost her vision, and was momentarily unable to speak, and then she was able to come around. We talked a lot about this together after the episode because I felt so bad about it and it was traumatic for her - but I think in a similar situation I would act the say way, but only for a severe situation like that. (By the way, this lady lost half her blood volume with that bleed and needed several units of blood. Thankfully, I almost never experience something like that.)
post #22 of 53
I had scare tactics, and my "stop!" was completely ignored, but no physical force. Then again, who has energy in active labor to fight back?
post #23 of 53
I have had one instance of anything being done against my wishes during either of my kids births. With ds I had 2 hours of transition at 6 or 7 depending on who you ask. Then when I got some energy back together ds went from floating to out in 10 minutes. That was all a bit intense and I was sounding loudly wish I guess brought the back up OB in. The not so brillant man told me he was applying fundal pressure while starting to touch my stomach and I shoved his hands off me. After that I have no recollection of him being in the room. Recently my dh told me he stayed until after the placenta was delivered so another 15-20 minutes. After he stopped bugging me he was gone at least in my mind.
post #24 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Individuation View Post
I had Pitocin put in an IV after I had specifically declined it.
I had that happen too, and I had declined it both orally and in writing. Found out about it when I reviewed my hospy records.
post #25 of 53
I have pretty much blocked my first son's birth. I purged by writing it down and now I can barely recall it. I do remember I begged for an episiotomy and I had to beg for a local (I could feel everything where it counted)
post #26 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snork View Post
However I have seen women pressured and coerced into such things. Ultimately though she has to cooperate in order for it to be carried out.
Cooperate? That depends on how you define cooperation.

When I was told I was having a c-section with ds1, I didn't actually fight, because I was too stunned to really take it in, and the contractions were coming pretty hard and fast - I was very confused and freaked out. However, I also didn't cooperate...I stayed there on the bed, crying and screaming and was totally ignored while they put in the catheter and attempt to put in the IV (several failed attempts...ended up actually putting it in on the OR table).
post #27 of 53
During my last pregnancy when I went in to get that first dating U/S, 5 men in white coats walked in and only two introduced themselves.They then proceeded to do the vaginal U/S.I felt uncomfortable at the time.Later on that day I grew very angry and felt violated since the nurse didn't even give me the respect to accept or turn down a "teaching" moment.I remember there wasn't much room for her so she stood in the doorway.I complained to my Dr. I complained to the hospital and its been well over a year and I still haven't heard anything back.
When I went in for my birth my baby was already crowning and I ended up pushing her out onto the triage table while the Drs were still getting dressed.It was a very normal uncomplicated birth, baby was fine I was fine it was just too fast for the staff.The nurse came at me with the pitocin to shoot in my thigh and I said,"no, I don't need that." She said," oh yes you do and put it in my thigh anyway.I also tried to turn down getting an IV line put in but that was installed against my wishes as well and left in for 4 hours after I had given birth even though I asked for it to be removed at every entrance of a nurse.It interfered with me holding my baby and hurt and dragged since it wasn't taped up properly.
I don't know what I can do to change this since I do write in and never get a response back.I guess I'm not famous enough. These things were done to me at a military hospital but from reading here its pretty common everywhere.This time around I am listening to my inner voice and not bothering with a hospital at all.I will give myself respect.
post #28 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyblufig View Post
I had that happen too, and I had declined it both orally and in writing. Found out about it when I reviewed my hospy records.
Me too (pitocin given against consent). My twin sister as well.
post #29 of 53
When a doctor lies and threatens to get cooperation from a woman in the height of labor, it's the same thing as force.

I agree that we can't change the institutions. We have to start with invidual women and hopefully, over time, create a revolution.
post #30 of 53
I've seen a woman scream no don't cut me when the dr was giving her an epis and the dr still did it.

My best friend was given general and told it was air to help her breath for her c/s. She had a working epi at the time. Can't really say no to something if they lie to you about it.
post #31 of 53
I sincerely hope my husband will physically remove people if I ever need to transfer to the hospital and someone tries to force something on my that I decline. I have repeated this to him at great length explaining different situations.

At my first birth my legs were forcefully held which I did not want and loudly said so. No one cared, it's just like rape.
post #32 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericswifey27 View Post
Just because it hasn't happened in your career doesn't mean it's impossible. And as for the monitoring, if god forbid I end up transferring, I WILL take the monitor off this time. But I didn't the first time, even though I didn't want it. So it's not as simple as that. Some women are afraid of standing up for what is right. it took me an unnecessary csection to figure out that is not in my best interest to be the "polite little patient".
Let me rephrase then: in NZ it doesnt happen because that is assault and drs and midwives can be sued for assault. We always seek consent and we dont physically manhandle anyone. Ever.
post #33 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyblufig View Post
I had that happen too, and I had declined it both orally and in writing. Found out about it when I reviewed my hospy records.


What did you do when you found out?
post #34 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynthfair View Post


What did you do when you found out?
Cried. Seriously! I read and reread the hospital records and the midwives' records and just got mad and cried and finally made my peace with it. It was close to 2 yrs after the fact, and just one of a few things that were not quite right in the records, so I just didn't feel like starting up a back-and-forth with the mws group. My dh's favorite was in the office records one of the mws had stated that he seemed "hostile" at the 36 wk appt. Um, no, he asked you to please slow down and repeat a few things that you rushed through explaining. (She was POd because I couldn't leave work early to come to that appt 2 hrs early anyway, so she was rushing through explaining what happens when at the hospy.) And aren't medical records supposed to only record objective facts, not subjective opinions?

Besides the pitocin thing, one of my favorites is where they first checked "SROM", then crossed it out and checked "AROM", as in, "oh yeah, we DID break your water!" She sprang that on me at 7-8cm. I found out later from a doula that some of the mws in that practice (CNMs) insist on AROM before you get in the birth tub and others don't.

The moral of my particular story for me was... NCB in a major urban teaching hospy is very, very hard to achieve unless you A.) go along with the regular procedures [which I don't ] or B.) are smart enough as a FTM to hire a real she-bear of a doula who will constantly remind you of your goals and run some serious interference.

Oh, and most importantly (for me) plan a UC next time around!

eta: Oh yeah, and the pitocin was put in the IV after my ds was born to speed up the placenta. No, I wasn't bleeding heavily and yes, we were nursing. In the records it says "per protocol". Grrrrr...
post #35 of 53
I wasn't held down but I was paralyzed from the chest down. IMO it's the same thing. I'm not sure what else I could have done to fight them off.
post #36 of 53
The closest I've come ot being treated against my will is when I wanted an empty, dangling IV tube taken out and for 20 hours I asked anybody and everybody to take it off and they kept passing the buck.

So, hardly traumatic, I just wish I'd not been scared to pull it out myself. It was so annoying, uncomfortable, and in the way of sleeping, nursing, getting dressed, etc. and I really wanted it off and nobody would do it. OK, I'm still angry. ugh.
post #37 of 53
It's assault to force treatment on people in the US too, but nobody does anything about it, and they just keep getting away with it.
post #38 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyblufig View Post
Cried. Seriously! I read and reread the hospital records and the midwives' records and just got mad and cried and finally made my peace with it. It was close to 2 yrs after the fact, and just one of a few things that were not quite right in the records, so I just didn't feel like starting up a back-and-forth with the mws group. My dh's favorite was in the office records one of the mws had stated that he seemed "hostile" at the 36 wk appt. Um, no, he asked you to please slow down and repeat a few things that you rushed through explaining. (She was POd because I couldn't leave work early to come to that appt 2 hrs early anyway, so she was rushing through explaining what happens when at the hospy.) And aren't medical records supposed to only record objective facts, not subjective opinions?
Yep I cried the whole entire afternoon when I got my records. Not sure if there is anything I or you could do, except continue to share our stories with other moms to warn them. Is a police station really going to care that a doctor did things against my will 3 years ago? I doubt it. After all, as I've heard a thousand times (and I might punch the next person who says it) "you have a healthy baby, that's all that matters":

The comment about your dh made me laugh. My favorite comment in my records is "Twin sister had csection and is imposing her views on the patient" Um, yeah. She was trying to SAVE me from also going through an unneccessary csection but unfortunately couldn't :
post #39 of 53
When I went into labor with my twins, the on-call doctor kept forcefully checking my cervix after I told him not to. After a few times, I got fed up and kicked the shit out of him.
post #40 of 53
I was literally fisted via VE when I had dd. They made everyone leave the room, DH and my mom, and literally proceeded to perform the most painful VE I have ever experienced. Now, I have survived breaking my jaw twice and dislocating it ones, teeth being ripped out full force in sports, fracturing every rib in my body, fracturing my spine, the list goes on.. and never once cried.

I sobbed and cried and screamed my way through this VE. I told her to please be more gentle, she was ripping my insides, and it just continued. My mom and DH heard me SCREAMING in pain from outside and were forcefully restrained by staff. I can only imagine what damage the two of them would have caused were they not held back (4 male nurses per person!).


It was awful. My whole body clenches up while thinking about it, to this day.
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