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If you've had a c-section, do you feel that it was necessary? - Page 3

post #41 of 73
This is my first post and it seems to go against all the others, however….I did not have a c-section but wish I had. I was concerned about my son’s delivery and asked for a c-section - repeatedly - but my doctor told me I was neurotic! I delivered twins, prematurely, one transverse. My daughter's delivery was fine but my son, who was transverse, was grabbed by an intern then pulled out by his feet. The doctor lost her grip several times. His delivery was very violent. He was born w/o oxygen and with a grade two brain bleed. After much struggling he is doing great although he may have future issues. I am angry – with my doctor for not listening to me and with myself for not demanding a c-section. I feel my doctor’s bravado jeopardized my son.
post #42 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbsam View Post
This is my first post and it seems to go against all the others, however….I did not have a c-section but wish I had. I was concerned about my son’s delivery and asked for a c-section - repeatedly - but my doctor told me I was neurotic! I delivered twins, prematurely, one transverse. My daughter's delivery was fine but my son, who was transverse, was grabbed by an intern then pulled out by his feet. The doctor lost her grip several times. His delivery was very violent. He was born w/o oxygen and with a grade two brain bleed. After much struggling he is doing great although he may have future issues. I am angry – with my doctor for not listening to me and with myself for not demanding a c-section. I feel my doctor’s bravado jeopardized my son.
Hmmm. . . I read this post with great interest. Partly because I'm in the same boat (replying when I didn't actually HAVE a c-section). Partly b/c I was also delivering twins and was confronted with plans for a total breech extraction (yet unlike this poster, did NOT want a c-section).

We searched everywhere and spent hours and hours planning so that we could deliver with a specialist who would participate in a vaginal delivery of our twins, even if involving a breech presentation (and it did turn out that from 28-weeks right through birth, Twin B was breech). The doctor we found was not insisting on a c-section (others in other hospitals would have). However, she WAS insisting on a total breech extraction.

Our feeling was that this was an agressive, and traumatic birth with great risk for injury and compromised breathing upon delivery. We felt it should be used only as a last resort in an emergency. Our views were foreign-ground to the OB. In the end, we were at a stand-still: she didn't dump us for fear of a disastrous outcome if we were unable to find another doctor. We insisted verbally and in writing that we would not agree to total breech extraction as a primary means of birthing Twin B.

We didn't make it to the "big-city" hospital and ended up at a community hospital (temporarily without an OB). A family doctor and surgeon were called in as we were enroute to the hospital. A vaginal exam upon arrival found me at 9cm - so obviously not continuing the mulit-hour drive to the city. The family doctor told us in no uncertain terms that we were going to the operating room to have a c-section. The only thing that saved me, was being able to tell her equalling resolutely that we absolutely were not!

Her next approach was a hard-press for external version of the second twin after the first was delivered. We also did not agree with this. I was finding her attacks ("You're making poor choices for your baby".) very hard to fend-off in the last minutes of labour, but in the end, we didn't do an external version, either.

Twin B slipped out as effortlessly as any babe can, 17 minutes after his brother.

What was unusual about his birth is that he was born in the caul. He squirmed immediately and cried right away when the sac broke open.

I tell this story because we were continually told that this just couldn't be done. Twin B was a double footling-breech. I was "this" close to having a completely unnecessary surgery in the hospital I delivered at, or a traumatic breech extraction at the hospital I'd planned to birth in. We are not planning to have more children. But after this experience, if I did become pregnant again, I think my birth plan would consist only of a large "NO!" emblazoned on my forehead in permanent marker - both during pre-natal appointments and at the delivery.

I hope my experience is useful to your original inquiry because I am in the unusual position of having refused a c-section that the doctor demanded. I'm not left feeling that my c-section was unnecessary. I refused it and SAW that it would have been completely unnecessary.

The babies and I were A-1, which is a LOT better off than would have been the case with any of the birthing strategies approved of by the doctors. This is, of course, pretty high-stakes in trying to determine whether your instincts and your research are right, or the doctor is right. It's excruciating to be weighing it all and not wanting to be "right" for the sake of being right, but for the sake of mom and babies having the best birth possible (for physical & mental well-being).
post #43 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagesgirl View Post
No woman should ever be made to feel guilty about a c-section, medically necessary or not. In each and every case I have ever seen on this site, it was at the very least the best decision made with the information available at the time. Blaming yourself for what is, in the grand scheme of things, a minute fraction of your child's life just isn't worth it. What matters is being the best, most loving mama you can be.

Control for what you can, and don't worry about the rest. Honestly, so much of birth is happenstance and/or luck. You can eat the pefect diet, excercise every day of your pregnancy, do all the Spinning Babies stuff, etc etc and still have a baby go into distress during your serene home birth and have to be transported for a c-section. And there are plenty of women out there who spend their pregnancies laying on their back on the couch eating solely fried stuff and then go to the hospital and have insanely quick, easy, and uncomplicated births.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't do your best to ensure a healthy pregnancy and a good birth, or that you shouldn't want things to go a certain way. I'm just saying that self-recriminations after the fact accomplish nothing.
I love pretty much all of these sentiments, but at the same time see much of the flip-side. I'm also reading between the lines and hoping that Sagesgirl isn't suggesting that threads like this are fruitless or an exercise in projecting guilt onto those who have had c-sections.

Some further thoughts:
  • No one makes anyone feel guilty. It's your own barometer of the opinions and actions/reactions of those around you.
  • "Control for what you can and don't worry about the rest" goes hand-in-hand with observing that in every case, women decide for or against c-sections (and other interventions) with "the best decision made with the information available at the time". Unfortunately, it's the quality of the information made available at the time that if often later scrutinized as being woefully-lacking.
  • Self-recriminations after the fact surely can serve purpose: in healing oneself, in gaining the wisdom of experience for your own subsequent births, in passing on knowledge to other women. Part of being the best, most loving mama you can be is being at peace with your past and knowing the value of your experiences. Often, there's a lot of hard emotional work that goes into that part!
post #44 of 73
I had a c-section. My daughter was asynclitic (majorly so, she came out with a horn on one side) and my membranes had ruptured, so she couldn't really move. I think it's possible that she could have gotten in the proper position, but it was an extremely long shot without scary interventions like high forceps, and since I never dilated past 6 after my membranes ruptured, I do think a c-section was needed. So, yes, my cesarean was necessary but possibly could have been avoided if I had practiced OFP, if my water had broken when I was standing rather than lying on my side, blah blah blah. At any rate, I regret it but am mostly at peace with it.
post #45 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthMommy80 View Post
Now I am pregnant with number 3 and no one in my area will do a VBA2C, so I'm stuck having a third c-section, and this has been my easiest and healthiest pregnancy so far.
Hey, Leeann, I see that you're in Ferndale. I've heard of two providers - one at St. Joe's in AA and one at Henry Ford. Goodness, in the Detroit area you even have your choice of about 20 homebirth midwives if you wanted to go that route. You are not stuck with a 3rd c-section unless you've done the research, looked into your heart and feel that it would be the best for you and your baby. And if a cesarean birth is what you feel is best, then so be it.
post #46 of 73
My c-section was a scheduled one, because my CNM and her OB coerced me into it. Our families also pressured us into it. This was for fetal macrosomia (which runs in my family, I had aunts that pushed out 9 and 10 pounders just fine). I felt guilty for a long time, maybe still do, but I did do the best that I could at the time, I just wasn't prepared to stand up to them (I didn't have the knowledge, and I had past trauma that makes it difficult for me to stand up to authority figures). Next time I will choose better care providers, and I will know more and be stronger.

dbsam- I am sorry that you had such a traumatic birth. It seems to me that your story is quite similar to moms that have had unnecessary c-sections, it sounds like you may have known what was best for your child and a doctor coerced you into doing something different. Just like us you can't really second guess yourself though, because you did the best you could at the time.
post #47 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrestorm View Post
Mine was NOT!! I was a HB transfer...they (the midwives at the hospital, not my HB midwives) HATED me (I was originally going to use them as a back up but stopped seeing them after all the greif they caused me at prenatals).
to you. I can't even imagine going through that. I'm glad that the courts agreed with you. Way to go for standing up for your own autonomy and right to self-determination!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagesgirl View Post
No woman should ever be made to feel guilty about a c-section, medically necessary or not. In each and every case I have ever seen on this site, it was at the very least the best decision made with the information available at the time. Blaming yourself for what is, in the grand scheme of things, a minute fraction of your child's life just isn't worth it. What matters is being the best, most loving mama you can be.
You may find these sentiments soothing, but I find them insulting at best. Speak about your own experiences and how you feel about them, but don't purport to know how I feel or if I should feel as I do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagesgirl View Post
I'm not saying that you shouldn't do your best to ensure a healthy pregnancy and a good birth, or that you shouldn't want things to go a certain way. I'm just saying that self-recriminations after the fact accomplish nothing.
The underlying assumption here and above is that any feelings of guilt, loss, or as you put it "self-recriminations" have zero value. That any negative feelings are just that, negative and that it's best just to ignore them and focus on the positive things. Focusing instead on the fact that you made "the best decision at the time".

I think that for many of us, in ignoring these feelings we do ourselves a great disservice. It is very possible that all of these things that you view so negatively would in fact help us to accomplish many positive things.

If I had never come to terms with the choices that I made and the way I let someone else deny me my own power, then I wouldn't be who I am today. Why deny women the right to better themselves by learning from their own experiences? Why is it that women are expected to just forget the profound feelings of loss that they may experience and just be happy with what they've got? Have we really not moved any further along as a society than that?

As Marsden Wagner writes:

Quote:
When we try to make women believe that they can't give birth without the help of men, machines, and hospitals, we take away their confidence and their belief in their own bodies - and with their confidence gone, any feelings of power and autonomy also disappear.
If I were to have done what you suggested, instead of the journey that I've taken I would have continued to be a shadow of my former self. I became a better woman, daughter, wife, and mother when I began to acknowledge my own "negative" feelings and process through them. My c/s expereience very much detached me from reality and it wasn't until almost 1 yr had passed and I admitted how things really were that I even began to feel like I could live again. You are more than welcome to speak of your own experience, but don't tell me how I should or shouldn't feel.

As for me..."primary elective cesarean for suspected fetal macrosomia" according to my doctor. IMO, it would be more accurate to read "Completely unneccessary primary cesarean due to doctor coercion and withholding of information". What was just a simple decision for my OB (a woman) has left a profound and lasting impact on my life.
post #48 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by pampered_mom View Post
The underlying assumption here and above is that any feelings of guilt, loss, or as you put it "self-recriminations" have zero value. That any negative feelings are just that, negative and that it's best just to ignore them and focus on the positive things. Focusing instead on the fact that you made "the best decision at the time".

I think that for many of us, in ignoring these feelings we do ourselves a great disservice. It is very possible that all of these things that you view so negatively would in fact help us to accomplish many positive things.
:

If I had never processed my feelings about the birth I very likely would have been cut two more times. I would have continued my blind faith in the medical profession. I am a much stronger person now, not only for giving birth instead of being delivered, but also for educating myself on how the choices I made affected the outcome of the birth. Because in my case I did NOT make the best decision at the time.
post #49 of 73
#1--Maybe. I was induced and 45 hours later, after pushing for 2 hours, they decided he wasn't progressing so they did a c-section. I really just wanted to be done. When I started pushing, I didn't feel the urge that strongly, and probably could have waited. Also, the coaching I was receiving from the nurses sucked. But I was 17, so I had no clue.

#2--Yes. I was only dialated to 7 cm and her heart rate was dropping drastically. They said if I had been farther along, they would have let me go. If her heart rate was not low, they would have given me pitocin. It was fine. It just sucked because I was given general.
post #50 of 73
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelcat View Post
That's the short version. And it's NOT up for debate or questions btw.
Who is debating or questioning? I am simply asking a question...This thread was not meant to argue the validity or reason of anyones c-section, just to find out the reason behind it.

So the vast majority of the sections that have been posted about here are either malpositioned baby(usually deflexed head or persistent posterior) leading to slow/non-progression, something wrong with mom(pre-eclampsia, abruption) and distress. Then of course there are the macrosomias, breeches and the repeat sections...

dbsam, I am so sorry for your experience. It seems such purely an ill-trained practitioner just using your poor child as a dummy. The simlpe act of a person tugging on a breeches feet during it's birth can cause just this type of injury and is a good reason that doctors not trained in vaginal breech birth shouldn't do it.
post #51 of 73
No, absolutely not necessary.

Typical failed induction due to impatient OB and uninformed me.
post #52 of 73
My first c-section was absolutley unnecessary. I was pressured in to it by my OB. He was concerned about high bp, big baby, and post dates. When I arrived at the hospital my bp was normal, my baby ended up being 8 pounds and estimated to be 39 weeks. I have horrible regrets for not fighting him tooth and nail.

My second c/s was an attempted vbac. My water broke when I was 41 weeks. I waiting 7 hours to go to the hospital, was not having contractions, was strapped down to the bed on my back, they did not want me standing for fear of a prolapsed cord. 24 hours after my water broke I was only 1-2 cm dilated, no contractions (had a few overnight) and was told my only option was c-section. Then due to the ORs being booked, I didn't have my c/s until 36 hours after my water broke. I never had any more contractions. I feel that this one was somewhat more warranted, since all hospitals put you on a time clock after your water breaks, but I think had I been able to move around or walk, etc. maybe my labor would have intensified. I am not as angry about the 2nd as the 1st, though.
post #53 of 73
Absolutely necessary. I have had four. I have a Mullerian Anomaly that was undetected until my first csection.

Women should not feel guilt for what they can't control.
post #54 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheFence View Post

Women should not feel guilt for what they can't control.
Guilt does not play into my feelings in any way...more like anger and violation. I know I have nothing to feel guilty about. I fought like a tiger up to the point where they had a judge on the phone threatening to cut me open anyway and take my DD into custody as soon as she was born if I didn't agree. They did kidnap her to NICU and we set off alarms getting her out of there...

Guilt? Not a drop!!!
post #55 of 73
Mine was necessary. My water broke at 20 weeks, which locked my ds breech. They were expecting me to have a 2nd trimester miscarriage, but I never went into labor and ds hung in there. He was born at 30 weeks after I began to abrupt. Once they got inside they discovered that his cord was positioned poorly on the placenta (implanted on the very edge) and was only about 6 inches long. He'd have never made it out with a cord of that length, anyway.
post #56 of 73
Yes mine were. My first was born after a lost heartbeat that they tried to find for 30 minutes. He was born a blackish blue, cord tightly wrapped 4 times around his neck, and apgar scores of 1 and 3. He spent 11 days in the nicu but is healthy now. My second I feel was because I wasn't comfortable vbacing with twins and breech. My ob was pushing for a vbac but I just didn't feel right with a vbac.
post #57 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by AugustLia23 View Post
Who is debating or questioning? I am simply asking a question...This thread was not meant to argue the validity or reason of anyones c-section, just to find out the reason behind it.

I'm not Angelcat but I didn't think her comment was directed at specifically at you but I completely understand her sentiment. Let's face it. On this site there's a lot of judgement about c-sections. I've seen such mothers made to feel like second class citizens. MDC mamas who've had c-sections sometimes have to put up a shield against those who would question the particulars of our birth experience. I for one am not embarassed or guilty about the surgical birth of my daughter (hence my signature). I also understand not all mothers who've been through a c-section feel as I do.
post #58 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by BookGoddess View Post
I for one am not embarassed or guilty about the surgical birth of my daughter (hence my signature).
The burgundy ribbon in your signature is about much more than just having had a cesarean in the past.

Quote:
The Cesarean Awareness Ribbon debuted in April of 2004 for Cesarean Awareness Month. The burgundy color of the ribbons represents birth and the wearing of the ribbon upside down symbolizes the state of distress many pregnant women find themselves in when their birthing choices are limited. The loop of the inverted ribbon represents a pregnant belly and the tails are the arms of a woman outstretched in a cry for help.
From http://www.ican-online.org/CAM/index.php
post #59 of 73
I don't know. I don't think the first one was. I think it was the inevitable outcome of too many unnecessary interventions. But my second was, I think. I had cholestasis, making it necessary to deliver early to protect my twins' lives. We could have induced of course but a VBAC induction is a dicey thing, and while DD2 was nicely positioned, her twin was in an awkward quasi-transverse position. So I think we did right to go with a surgical birth with the twins.
post #60 of 73
My DD was born via c/s 3 1/2 wks early. It was due to my high BP (185/112) and the fact that it really never got any lower than 160s/90s. I have been a nurse for far too long, have seen and been in too many dicey situations. I was terrified for my DD's well being. And the last thing that I wanted to have happen was an emergency c/s at 2am. Two days after being admitted so that they could induce me, I requested my doc do a section so that I would know that my DD was ok. I still feel that this was the proper decision, and I would do it all over again in a minute.
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