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Has anyone actually read Ezzo's stuff? - Page 2

post #21 of 38
After reading all these things about this guy, I feel very fortunate. I received the Babywise book from my sil. I read it and was prepared to have my baby. Fortunately, I took birthing classes at my local hospital that is very AP. I was educated about Babywise, and from that moment on an AP cloth diapering momma. After dd was born I started the parenting classes there as well. I hate to think what kind of mom I might have been if it were not for the hospital. I was then introduced to Dr. Sears, and looking back at Babywise, cannot believe I even thought about raising my dd that way. Yikes!!!!!


Colette
post #22 of 38
Pamela, I can't really answer your question, but I hope someone does. I hadn't heard of it until very recently when I started frequenting parenting boards, so if it has been offered at any church I've attended I wouldn't know. I do know that if I ever see it offered at my church, I will protest and write letters and provide all the documentation necessary to try and stop it. And I'm childless! Are all the churches any certain denomination or is it all churches? I go to a Southern Baptist church. Just wondering.
post #23 of 38
Pamela: I know there are moms on this board who have had exactly the experience you are describing. Do a search for Ezzo threads, and I'm sure you'll come up against their stories. I know one mom left--or was asked to leave--her church because of her conflicts with these Ezzo-ites. They can be very cultish, like your "friend" giving that enlightening: Mother's Day talk!
post #24 of 38
I have read "Babywise" much of "Babywise 2" "PFP", much of "GKGW" and a lot of his bullhockey online.

I was kicked out of a church over this crap (I'm part of the "unprepared for parenting" article as well as a few others)

One additional note of caution: I have noticed that many parents (even committed AP/gentle parents) tend to take on some of the authoritarian negativeness found in these books when they're reading this crap....you might feel irritated with your children and insecure about your parenting methods...this stuff is so sly and crafty that even the strong can be weakened by it!!

Debra Baker (just put my name in a search engine and you will find Ezzo info )
post #25 of 38
Debra: thanks for posting; you were the member I was referring to, but I was a little unsure if I had your name right, so didn't want to give hewr the wrong steer...

and ITA with the idea of getting those negative thoughts stuck in your head!
post #26 of 38
Quote:
Like my dh said, I'd like to meet his kids.
Thats what I always say, too. One reason I find Sears so reassuring is that his kids are happy, successful adults raising their children in the same way they, themselves, were raised. It says a lot to me that what, two of them, choose to work w/ their dad. You never hear about Ezzos kids (I think he had two) and there is certainly no "Ezzo & Sons" ministry or anything.

Kay
post #27 of 38
FYI~

You can do a web search and find out all kinds of stuff about Gary Ezzo. He and his x-nurse wife started teaching parenting classes at their church when their 2 daughters were much older...like teens I believe. John MacArther's church...Grace Community here in So CA. John shut him down. He has since been booted out of 3 or 4 other churches. A few years ago, there was a letter sent out by pastors written by John MacArther, that declared Gary Ezzo unfit for Christian Leadership at a church. Reasons were his unaccountability(refusing to provide scientific or medical proofs of the claims in his book regarding his parenting style), stepping up to the plate and clarifying his expertise or lack there of in his education that would give credence to any of his claims.(Gary is not a Dr. nor does he have a degree of anysort in child psychology, or development) and his constant bent toward creating division in the church body and the lies he has told regarding church leaders who have butted heads with him.

This guy is a loser, a liar, a dangerous giver of advice and a very sorry excuse for a Christian. I had a stack of information that was over 100pages long that I used to keep copies of and give to people who did GKGW and Babywise. Cases of children with failure to thrive because they were on 4 hr feeding schedules, kids left in carseats in the closet so they didn't bother the parents while the learned to sleep through the night, children as young as 2 and 3 with eating disorders because their food intake was soooo mismanaged.

My personal experieince was that I left the main campus of the church I attend when my first son was born 8.5 yr ago. People would stop and ask me if I was going to *grow him up God's Way?* duh, of course! But see, the church had GKGW classes and everyone did them. A year or so later our pastor stood at a pastors meeting and apologized to them for ever introducing the program to the Body of Believers at our church. Never had anything created so much division and tension between members. His wife told women in the women's fellowship to get rid of the books, don't give them away she said, burn them so no one gets a hold of them.

I could go on all day. I've seen first hand the sick and twisted brainwashed things these parents do to their kids. My one friend is appalled and ashamed that they did this to their first ds...they have video of her dh running around the back yard trying to distract him and her voice saying, poor thing...he can't eat for another hour: they had him on a 4 hr schedule from week one! at 4 months she had a nurse tell her he was starving, that's why he didn't poop for a week or 2 at a time. And the schedule that is supposed to make your life easier and make sure the kid doesn't *run the house*? what a joke. I have never seen people so in bondage as the people on the eat-play-sleep-make sure they have their alone time in a play pen-schedule. They can never go anywhere or do anything because they must be home and in bed for all the forced naps and feedings! I wonder how many adults could live off this schedule they inflict on babies? I know I couldn't.

i have to stop. I get crazy pissed about this stuff.
post #28 of 38

I did and it made me cry

I can;t imagine not feeding my child of hitting my 6 month old for spilling food
post #29 of 38
Quote:
And the schedule that is supposed to make your life easier and make sure the kid doesn't *run the house*? what a joke. I have never seen people so in bondage as the people on the eat-play-sleep-make sure they have their alone time in a play pen-schedule. They can never go anywhere or do anything because they must be home and in bed for all the forced naps and feedings!
I, too, know quite a few families who tell me that this way of life is so much better. In fact, a friend of mine who has a 3 yo and infant twins is on that boat. You know why we've come to be good friends? I'm the only one who's life was flexible enough to accomodate her schedule and I have a soft heart! (That and she is totally fine with the fact that I disagree with her on that front.) All her other friends who support her in the scheduled way of life can't disrupt their schedules to come help her when she needs it.

It's so sad in so many ways.
post #30 of 38
Lenswyf, I wonder if we know the same family! A friend of mine has a 3-year-old DD and 1-year-old twin girls, and while she is very AP in most other ways, she really surprised me by telling me that Babywise really helped her, and that if she hadn't been able to get the twins on a schedule of eating and napping, her life would have been utter hell.

I can't even imagine how difficult it must be to have twins when your first has just turned 2, and to be breastfeeding the twins, too. But I was quite surprised that my friend used Babywise! When I told her the negative things I knew or had read about the book, she said that she just used some ideas and ignored what she didn't like (the smacking of the hand, the isolation time, etc.). She is very loving and gentle with all her daughters, and breastfed the first one on demand until she weaned herself, but said that if she was nursing the twins on demand it would have been impossible. I can certainly see how scheduling of some sort would be necessary in her situation.

I am NOT AT ALL condoning Ezzo's methods here, but I did want to share this friend's perspective. She is someone whom I respect and the whole thing just made me think, that's all.
post #31 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by LunaMom
if she was nursing the twins on demand it would have been impossible. I can certainly see how scheduling of some sort would be necessary in her situation.
It isn't impossible because I am doing it. I am doing it without the help of a spouse since dh works out of town during the week and without the help of friends since I don't know anyone here (we moved here after the girls were born). I have a 9yo with numerous activities and I am constantly carting him to practices, games, camp, the pool and friend's houses.

My only concession to a schedule is that I try to keep the girls close to being on the same routine. Meaning when I feed one, I offer to the other. I don't refuse to feed one if the other isn't hungry, nor do I keep one up if the other isn't sleepy. They eat when hungry and sleep when sleepy, hopefully together but many times not.

I don't blame people who offer feedings at regular times. I do NOT approve of refusing to feed a baby that is hungry because it isn't the right time. I also do NOT approve of someone that deliberately lets her kids cry to force them to sleep at parent directed times or force them to stay in a playpen or playroom. Refusing to meet your babies needs is not necessary to raise twins. There is always another option like getting a mother's helper.

Sorry to rant but that "you can't raise twins without a schedule" thing is something I hear all the time and it is just not true.
post #32 of 38
perhaps "schedule" and "routine" could be somewhat synonymous? just a thought.

i'm reading babywise right now, i bought it at a local used children's things store. i told the owner i was buying it to take home and set on fire. hope i didn't offend her.

i was thinking how nice it would be to have some of the benefits that this book claims to provide. it occurred to me that if i could just get my act together a little and give the babes some structure it would be a good thing. but i would certainly never use those methods.

i really don't know if i'm going to get through this book. so far it has just given me a headache. much easier on my brain to read excerpts.
post #33 of 38
No, this friend did the Ezzo thing with her oldest, too. With the twins she was even more obsessed with getting them on a schedule and sleeping through the night. We actually came to be friends when she just had her ds -- and part of it was that I was the one person she knew who could come play when she wanted someone to come play.

Routine and schedule are synonyms in the dictionary, but they do mean different things. "Routine" is habit or custom. "Schedule" is agenda, timetable.

I think that all babies eventually settle into a routine by themselves that makes life reasonably predictablebut it's not a hard and fast schedule.
post #34 of 38
I read Babywise. My friend had gotten froma used store and made them promise not to ever buy it again. She kept obsessing over it so I took it away and obsessed over it myself. I read it in one evening. Lara- you're right, it is TOTALLY a reaction to AP and he makes up stuff, like how AP is based on birth trauma. What a lame-o. I don't want to get into what AP is, but it is a parenting style adapted from the work of John Bowlby and his Attachment Theory which has more to do with building trust and security than birht trauma, in fact, I don't remeber a lot of birth trauma anything in Attachment Theory. Anyway, I have since decided that "Know thine enemy" is too stressful!
Lauren
post #35 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by lenswyf
Routine and schedule are synonyms in the dictionary, but they do mean different things. "Routine" is habit or custom. "Schedule" is agenda, timetable.

I think that all babies eventually settle into a routine by themselves that makes life reasonably predictablebut it's not a hard and fast schedule.
Yup, that's what I meant. A schedule, in my mind, is a timetable set by the parents. A routine is what the girls fall into on their own when I am listening to their cues.



Lauren, doesn't it make you wonder who he has met that practiced, or claimed to, ap that he is reacting so violently to?

nak
post #36 of 38
YES!! And did you notice he is anti CD, pro circ and thinks FF is pretty much just as good, especially if BFing is "hard" Did some AP person beat over the head with a Sears book or soemthing?
L
post #37 of 38
Quote:
Originally posted by laralou
My only concession to a schedule is that I try to keep the girls close to being on the same routine. Meaning when I feed one, I offer to the other. I don't refuse to feed one if the other isn't hungry, nor do I keep one up if the other isn't sleepy. They eat when hungry and sleep when sleepy, hopefully together but many times not.

I don't blame people who offer feedings at regular times. I do NOT approve of refusing to feed a baby that is hungry because it isn't the right time. I also do NOT approve of someone that deliberately lets her kids cry to force them to sleep at parent directed times or force them to stay in a playpen or playroom. Refusing to meet your babies needs is not necessary to raise twins. There is always another option like getting a mother's helper.

Sorry to rant but that "you can't raise twins without a schedule" thing is something I hear all the time and it is just not true.
I see your point, and I don't think that the friend I mentioned would ever refuse to feed a hungry baby or purposely keep one baby awake, or let one of her babies cry it out. I'm not really sure how she implemented her "schedule," and perhaps it is more of a routine. I wonder if she just read the book based on a recommendation, and took a couple of things that made sense and threw out the rest? Intelligent people can adapt things to meet their own needs.

Of course, my view is that I wouldn't want to support in any way something that offends me, so if I heard of a book that had one relevant chapter but the rest went against my beliefs, I just wouldn't want to use it at all on principle. But that's my own way.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I still think Ezzo is sick, horrible, evil, etc., but perhaps we shouldn't automatically judge as bad parents anyone who claims to have used his methods, or assume that only cold, unloving people would find a use for his book. Am I making sense here? I think my above post might not have come across in the way I meant it!
post #38 of 38
I wanted to chime in with my $.02. I also have 1 year old twins who are on a routine -- albeit a highly flexible one -- no doubt about it. Demand feeding them 100% of the time is sadly just not do-able with twins in spite of my best efforts. Many mothers of multiples need to make various compromises to their strong convictions and be flexible & adaptable to meet everyone's needs. That being said, it sounds like your friend didn't "do" BabyWise. For example, my two were probably finally on the same general routine from around 6 or 7 months old, but we did it with no CIO, no isolation, no "scheduling/timekeeping", absolutely no punishing or anything of the sort. It was more just a gradual teaching/shifting of their sleep/wake/hunger patterns to fit with the rest of the family's. It all seemed pretty natural to us actually.

A lot of people equate "BabyWise" with "a baby on a routine." In my opinion, it's the means, not the end, that's mostly in question with BabyWise. For example, a healthy 12 pounder who naturally starts sleeping longer durations at night doesn't have to be awoken to feed for heaven's sake! But trying to get a baby to sleep longer at night by ignoring her cries for hunger... now THAT'S wrong.
I just wanted to chime in with my experience, because I have definitely had people ask me, e.g., when I go to prepare lunch for both DD and DS at the same time or whatever, "Oh, did you do BabyWise??" So it sounds like your friend didn't "do BabyWise", she just did what she needed to do to make her family work... but still in a gentle, AP-as-possible way.
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