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Catholic - Confession Question - Page 3

post #41 of 81
to all who are dealing with the fallout from molestation. It's just terrible.

Shantimama - I'd say that there is a huge lack of understanding about sex, period. Sexual abuse is just so beyond comprehension to some people, that they end up saying really stupid things. Children are so innocent and trusting - anyone who takes advantage of that is despicable. On the otherhand, I know about the cycle of abuse, and it's so hard not to condemn those who haven't risen above it - that may a failing of sorts, too.

I do not believe the seal of the confessional should extend to perpertrators, though I don't know official doctrine on that. If there is any justice at all, it wouldn't.
post #42 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzywan View Post
: I'd say that there is a huge lack of understanding about sex, period. Sexual abuse is just so beyond comprehension to some people, that they end up saying really stupid things.
You said it well.
post #43 of 81
I asked our deacon about the seal of confession, and he said it is absolute. I could go tell the priest that I had just killed someone and he could not report it. They are more concerned about your eternal soul, if you thought the priest would turn you in, you wouldn't go to confession and then would go to hell. I hope I am explaining it in a way that makes sense...it made sense when the deacon explained it to me.
post #44 of 81
but would they encourage you to right action? say for example "you need to turn yourself in".
post #45 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyka View Post
but would they encourage you to right action? say for example "you need to turn yourself in".
yes
post #46 of 81
Quote:
See, this is one of the very few things the Church espouses that thoroughly disgusts me. And is proof perfect that when only men are allowed to write the rules, women suffer.

The Church can be wrong. Ask Galileo.

I just want to make it very clear that I love my faith and Church, however, I do not find it faultless. It is a divinely inspired human institution - by designed it is flawed, as are all humans.

At the end of the day everything is between you and your Creator, no one else.
I don't deny that I struggle with some of the church's teachings, but I think it's sad that you seem to think there's something sinister and vindictive about that one. Everything the Church teaches comes from a very real love and concern for us. If I thought they made any teaching to punish women or make them suffer, there's no way I'd be Catholic.
post #47 of 81
What I think is sad is that some women will lose their lives over pure nonsense. If the mother dies instead of having an abortion, guess what? Baby dies anyway. And then there are two dead instead of one. It's sadistic and not even close to pro-life. As I said, no where does the Catholic Church require any member to lay down their life.

Re: Birth control. Not morally licit to use when a pregnancy would prove lethal to the mother? Not even close. Pope Paul VI must be rolling in his grave. Sex is essential in a matrimonial union. Unending abstinence is antithetical to marriage, grounds for annulment. Paul VI stated unequivocally, that the choice about when to have children and how many is between the couple and God. No One Else. Are you going to bet your life on NFP?

And frankly, CherryBomb, can you say, honestly, that you would die, leaving all born children without a mother, to satisfy this prohibition? Somehow I doubt it.

And to address sinister elements in the Church, how's this: Augustine of Hippo held that prostitution was a necessary evil: just as a well-ordered palace needed good sewer, so a well-ordered city needed brothels. Nice.
post #48 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzywan View Post
Are you going to bet your life on NFP?
I know a mother of four who does just that. She practices NFP by the most strict rules (which, when used correctly, is more effective than the Pill), and leaves it in God's hands. We walk by faith, and not by sight.
post #49 of 81
Quote:
We walk by faith, and not by sight.
Cold comfort to orphans. But that's her deal - not mine.

All this is neither here nor there because no of us makes the rules. Only God does. And his greatest rule is to love one another as he loves us. So with that, I'm out.
post #50 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzywan View Post
If the mother dies instead of having an abortion, guess what? Baby dies anyway. And then there are two dead instead of one.
Yes, in that case there would sadly be two dead - but two who would most assuredly be going straight to Heaven, and remember, it's not about life here and now - it's about eternal life. Two beautiful souls who glorified God in their trust in Him and would be sharing in His joy forever because of their faith. We should all try to make our decisions on Earth remembering that. Life here is short compared to eternity - so do we choose what's easier here, or what's going to help our soul get to Heaven for eternity?
post #51 of 81
This thread is about going to confession not about pro-life vs pro-choice. As a Catholic who is also pro-choice & feels NO conflict with that position, I would beg that we keep that debate elsewhere. Personally, I dont' think any minds will be changed on the issue by debating it here. And, whether or not the church should change/modify any of its dogma is a HUMONGOUS issue.

But, please let's not have a Catholic bashing thread when the OP was really about when/if/how to confess historically and/or in a "modern" Cath. church.

Thanks
post #52 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusyMommy View Post
This thread is about going to confession not about pro-life vs pro-choice. As a Catholic who is also pro-choice & feels NO conflict with that position, I would beg that we keep that debate elsewhere. Personally, I dont' think any minds will be changed on the issue by debating it here. And, whether or not the church should change/modify any of its dogma is a HUMONGOUS issue.

But, please let's not have a Catholic bashing thread when the OP was really about when/if/how to confess historically and/or in a "modern" Cath. church.

Thanks
That is exactly the point - confession, sin, eternal salvation - can't really discuss one without the others, yk? I'm not debating abortion - it came up simply as an example. Whether you agree with the Church or not, whether you wish the Church would change her position, etc. - as of right now, abortion is considered a mortal sin, so it's one example that is relevant to what we're discussing.

And I'm so used to Church-bashing these days, I barely even notice anymore, sadly. It's just that much more sad when it comes from lapsed Catholics or dissenting Catholics as opposed to people of other faiths.
post #53 of 81
Just swinging by to make sure you all know there's no Catholic bashing here! Been happily Catholic for nearly 30 years! Doubt helps me to grow in faith - questions lead to answers!

ETA: Throughout the ages there have been literally millions of Catholics who have, privately or publically, disagreed with Rome. Some of them have even been Saints. Faith is alive and it moves - the Holy Spirit cannot be restrained. Roman Catholicism has greatly evolved since the days of Peter - how can we expect it to stop? Don't insult me with labels of "lapsed" or "dissenting", when you have absolutely no idea about the intricacies of my practice. Just because something doesn't gel with your lived experience doesn't means it is wrong. Also, if you believe the entirety of the Catholic faith is merely sexual politics, I feel sad for *you*. This is basically what you are saying when youe "accuse" me of being lapsed or dissenting. Out of 2,000 years of theology, this is all I disagree with - how does that make me either??

Peace.
post #54 of 81
Hi! No Catholic bashing here either--I happily became Catholic when I got married (after being raised Buddhist, our family practices both religions). However, I do study Catholic theology and have done extensive work on this issue.

Yes if you have a medical condition for which hormonal contraceptives are the treatment, you can certainly take them. This is, however, assuming that you're not being disingenuous and claiming that slightly irregular periods are the "serious medical problem," in order to get the benefits of birth control without feeling bad about it. Because really, at that point, who are you fooling?

The "who are you fooling" issue is my biggest problem with NFP, by the way, although I have several enormous problems with it.
post #55 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzywan View Post
Throughout the ages there have been literally millions of Catholics who have, privately or publically, disagreed with Rome. Some of them have even been Saints. Faith is alive and it moves - the Holy Spirit cannot be restrained. Roman Catholicism has greatly evolved since the days of Peter - how can we expect it to stop?
Not to move off topic but really well said.
post #56 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusyMommy View Post
Not to move off topic but really well said.
Thank you

My whole life is off topic
post #57 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzywan View Post
What I think is sad is that some women will lose their lives over pure nonsense. If the mother dies instead of having an abortion, guess what? Baby dies anyway. And then there are two dead instead of one. It's sadistic and not even close to pro-life. As I said, no where does the Catholic Church require any member to lay down their life.
The Church says abortion is wrong, but it is not saying that women must die to bear children. If it were found that the mother would die if she continued to carry her baby the Church would find nothing wrong with a child being born prematurely. You deliver the baby at the last possible moment and then you attempt to save the baby. Why should the baby be actively killled? If a woman was found to have a tubal pregnancy the Church does not say she needs to keep that baby in the tube until it bursts and she dies...that would be absurd. If it requires the removal of the tube to save the mother than that is ok. This kills the baby, but that is certainly not the intent and if anything could be done to help that baby (there isn't in this case) it should be done. Nowhere does the Church say a woman must die to bear children. But, there are heroic women out there who do...not everyone is called to that. But don't get me wrong, the Church would only find this licit in grave situations and by grave I mean that the mother would lose her life.

I just would like to make a suggestion for those who find the Church repulsive. Go to your local bookstore and buy the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Many things that you hate about the Church are brought about by your misunderstanding of the Church's teaching. This is often brought about by your being misinformed by a misinformed lay Catholic or priest. The Church's teaching on everything is clearly laid out in the Catechism. Any stance that is proported to be Catholic and is not in agreement with what is in the Cathechism is not Catholic. I think that many of you would be surprised about why the Church teaches what it does...especially in the realm of sexuality.

Beth
post #58 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therese's Mommy View Post
The Church says abortion is wrong, but it is not saying that women must die to bear children. If it were found that the mother would die if she continued to carry her baby the Church would find nothing wrong with a child being born prematurely. You deliver the baby at the last possible moment and then you attempt to save the baby. Why should the baby be actively killled? If a woman was found to have a tubal pregnancy the Church does not say she needs to keep that baby in the tube until it bursts and she dies...that would be absurd. If it requires the removal of the tube to save the mother than that is ok. This kills the baby, but that is certainly not the intent and if anything could be done to help that baby (there isn't in this case) it should be done. Nowhere does the Church say a woman must die to bear children. But, there are heroic women out there who do...not everyone is called to that. But don't get me wrong, the Church would only find this licit in grave situations and by grave I mean that the mother would lose her life.

I just would like to make a suggestion for those who find the Church repulsive. Go to your local bookstore and buy the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Many things that you hate about the Church are brought about by your misunderstanding of the Church's teaching. This is often brought about by your being misinformed by a misinformed lay Catholic or priest. The Church's teaching on everything is clearly laid out in the Catechism. Any stance that is proported to be Catholic and is not in agreement with what is in the Cathechism is not Catholic. I think that many of you would be surprised about why the Church teaches what it does...especially in the realm of sexuality.

Beth

I think you may have misread the conversation here - or you are being deliberately obtuse and offensive.

This is what is so aggravating with these dicussion - there are always some "participants" that misconstrue events and end up sounding like sanctimonius PITAs. I own the Catechism and have 16 years of Catholic education under my belt - that incudes 4 years at a Jesuit University. While I may not be a professional theologian, I am very well acquainted with Catholic dogma and doctrine. And I *still* disagree with some of it. So, you can quit with the pearl clutching and deal with the fact that not every Catholic falls in lockstep with Rome.

Seriously, I hope some of you are not in ministry because I would hate for a person, struggling with their faith, to come across some of the attitudes I've seen in here.

An unexamined faith is not worth practicing.
post #59 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzywan View Post
I think you may have misread the conversation here - or you are being deliberately obtuse and offensive.

This is what is so aggravating with these dicussion - there are always some "participants" that misconstrue events and end up sounding like sanctimonius PITAs. I own the Catechism and have 16 years of Catholic education under my belt - that incudes 4 years at a Jesuit University. While I may not be a professional theologian, I am very well acquainted with Catholic dogma and doctrine. And I *still* disagree with some of it. So, you can quit with the pearl clutching and deal with the fact that not every Catholic falls in lockstep with Rome.

Seriously, I hope some of you are not in ministry because I would hate for a person, struggling with their faith, to come across some of the attitudes I've seen in here.

An unexamined faith is not worth practicing.



suzywan, you are my hero. you can write much better than i can. :
post #60 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzywan View Post

And frankly, CherryBomb, can you say, honestly, that you would die, leaving all born children without a mother, to satisfy this prohibition? Somehow I doubt it.
I don't know, honestly. I've never been in that situation. Women have given their lives for their children, though (like St. Gianna), and I would hope everyone could respect that even if they wouldn't make the same choice.

Again, I'm not saying that I don't also struggle with certain teachings. I just don't think the Church's intent is sinister. If I did, I would run away screaming!

This thread has derailed and is becoming very unproductive though, so that's the last from me. It's great that everyone feels strongly about their faith, but name-calling and assumptions get us nowhere.
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