Military presentation of baby=C-section?

[bionicsquirrel]

A good friend of mine was in labor this weekend. Here is scenario:

Her water bag broke early Friday morning. She started having minor contractions that dissapated when she went to sleep. Throughoput Friday she was just waiting. The next morning MW came over to check her cervix and discussed induction with homeopathics and/or herbs if labor didn't kick in. Light contractions started and at 5pm we talked about going for a late evening walk to get things going. I didn't get a phone call, so I don't know if they tried the induction methods or not, only that she labored pretty hard through the night. At 8am (Sunday)got a call that she was 8 cm dilated and I thought great, transition and she still feels strong. I figured she would have the baby that day. Well 5pm and I get a call that she is being transferred to the hospital. I was a mess, I had a horrible hospital experience when I wanted a homebirth (that is another story) and I was so worried about her. I just had a bad feeling.

Well, I worried through the night and this morning got a phone call that she had a c-section at 8 pm. The reason given was that the baby presented in Military position and the head was no longer pressing on the cervix making it impossible for her to dialate completely.

Here is my question: Is this a real thing? Would she really have not dialated or was it just something that the Dr. told her? I hate to speculate, I know I should just be happy that she and the baby are alright, but I am livid. I think she was pressured into it. It seems so crazy to me that she could have dialated to 8cm and then just stopped.

Can you help me relax about this thing?

[pamamidwife]

it is a real presentation, when the head is not flexed. it is harder when the bag of water is broken because there's less room for moving into a better position, but it's not impossible. I guess it depends on the entire situation, but it's not easy.

It's so much easier to sit back here and critique a birth, but I know that positioining makes a huge difference.

[crazy_eights]

I've seen it go both ways. I think it's even more difficult given that it was a first birth.

[Greaseball]

Huh? What is a military presentation? I'm imagining a little fetus saluting.

Anyway...there are all kinds of stories from people who have birthed all kinds of babies who were positioned "wrong." Most of these were home births, and some were UC's. These include footling breeches and flexed heads (have you seen the new Ina May book?) every other imaginable position except completely transverse.

I hear some docs do a c/s if the position is anything but textbook normal. Mine was posterior and I hear some will section just for that. I don't have any "normal" positioned babies to compare it to, but I'm sure the hard labor experience was a lot better than major surgery would have been!

[JesseMomme]

Does this mean a nuchial hand? : Where the hand and arm are alongside the head coming out?

[Carolinamidwife]

No, a military presentation means that the baby's head is not flexed chin to chest but is rather presenting as if the brow were the presenting part. Not a flexed presentation but not a face one either. A baby can be born vaginally in a military presentation but the baby's head is meant to mold through the birth canal at the occiput; the forehead doesn't have fontanelles.

A nuchal hand is a compound presentation.

[Cathi]

Well that sounds exactly like what I went through with my first. My water broke before really hard contractions had started, I labored a long time, he was found in the left occiput position with his neck completely extended. And I did end up with a csection, even though I dilated completely on my own and pushed for almost 3 hours, he did not descend.

to your friend during this difficult time.

[miriam]

Hi ladies!

I am posting to let you know that my dear son, #1, child #2, was born posterior with a deflexed, military attitude head.

The pregnancy was plagued with extreme right hip pain with sciatica, and a strained pyriformas and psoas muscle.

He was born at home after a nine hour labor with excruciating pain.

The midwife turned and flexed his head when it was fully engaged, ( I did all of the work to that point).

I screamed and I was hoarse, but pushed him out and My Dear Husband and I welcomed our own first son into the world with our own hands. When I held him up and looked at him, he winked at us!

It was very healing.

It was extremely difficult and excruciatingly painful, but when it was over, I was very relieved and high! My Dear Daughter, age 28, months tandem nursed with her new brother.

My Dear Son #1 is now twenty years old. He still sleeps with his head tipped back. I guess he just likes it that way.

I thank my midwife for her patience and skill in helping me.

[miriam]

...Please to let me add after my Dear Son was born early on a Sunday Morning, I nursed both of my dear children to the brim; I then packed up by bags, got on my ten-speed bicycle, and rode one half a mile to the gym and put in a forty-five minute workout. I do not think anyone at the gym realized I had just given birth since most of the staff ignored me when I was there anyway.
My Dear Husband watched our dear children.

I used the Lifecycle (twenty minutes level 6), some free weights, stretches,showered, and rode my bike home to my hungry dear nurslings.

I truly felt like I could hold the rising sun in my hands.

Six months later I was truly exhausted, full of PPD, and so I really did pay for it!

[bionicsquirrel]

Wow everyone, thank you for your support and incredibly helpful information. I have learned so much in just one day. Sheena, thank you for clearing up what, exactly, a military presentation is.

Miriam, that is a great birth story. congratulations. It makes me want to go ot a bit and talk about how I think that in many ways midwifery is becoming medicalized. The midwives I know are scared to let a birth go on too long, it seems they are almost convinced that intervention is appropriate in many cases of long labour. I think that if the option of the hospital was not there that many, many women would find the strenght and will to do what needs to be done and get through. This would lead us to discover just what amazing things our bodies are really capable of.

I am grieving for my friend's birth story. I don't know all the facts as she has been resting today (well deserved) and I do not want to intrude, but I cannot help but think that a c-section was preventable. I still grieve for my own child's birth and that was 6 months ago. I did not have a c-section, but was threatened with one several times over a 4 day labour. My recovery was very hard and I cannot imagine what it must be like for someone recovering from a c-s. I wish we could leave much of modern medicine behind and take back our bodies and our birthing rights.

[JesseMomme]

Ohhhh - thank you for clearing that up for me

[Pynki]

My son was liek that.. I didn't know it had a name and the OB who was never in the room it seemed didn't say anything eiterh.. I had a high forcepts delivery after 4 hours of hard pushing, and he would not move.. You could see a little indent on his forehead from where i had tried and he would just roll back in...

I was begging for a c-sec at the end of that 4 hours because i was soo tired, and he wasn't coming.. Thankfully the forcepts delivery worked, and i am SOO GLAD IT DID, but a c-sec was the next option...

Warm Squishy Feelings...

Dyan