Hey boys and girls!

[Arriotty]

Hi there!

I am new here. I'm not sure if this is an appropriate place for this post, but I'm going to post it anyways and hope for the best.

I have some questions, both about sexuality as well as parenting. Since this forum deals with queer parents, I gather this is as good a place as any to ask away? Lets hope!

Okay, so without going in to a lot of details...I am a 28 yr old single mother. My daughter is 6 now, and the coolest damn thing ever! Up until the last couple of years, I have dated men. There have been girls here and there, but never anything serious. About a year ago I realised I was in yet another seemingly great relationship with a guy....who I didn't love. The guy was great. The sex was, I guess, great. We hardly ever argued, he was smart and responsible. Good with money, cute as hell, good sense of humour. What a catch, right?! Sigh*

We parted ways with him being very understanding, and me being more confused than ever. We're still great friends. He's one of my best friends and most trusted confidants, in fact. The point is, he was wonderful and I couldn't find a way to love him.

I have found myself having more and more fantasies about other women the last few years. I have always known I was attracted to other women, but I could never really decide on which gender I was more attracted to. Eventually it got to the point where being with men was more like...a habit? Something that was familiar and therefore not terrifying. While being with women continued to never really amount to much in the way of experience.

Now that I am older and it has become clear that I can no longer ignore my feelings towards other women, I am of course, nervous as all hell because of the lack of experience. Also, I think I have some kind of problem with my self esteem and my not being able to let go of the idea that a female partner would constantly be comparing my body to hers. The idea of this feeling makes me feel even more naked than being naked makes me feel. Does that make any sense?

So, in thinking what sort of female I might like to attempt to date, I have really hit a wall. I mean, my problem is not that I'm not sure what I am attracted to. I know just what kind of girl I am physically attracted to. The problem is the way she sees me. I am very much a tomboy, I always have been. I have some quirks, I guess. I don't like to be touched, but I love to touch others. In bed, I don't want her to see me as a female. I don't even want her to acknowledge my breasts. If at all possible I would rather keep them hidden at all times. I have every kind of daydream about pleasing this fantasy girl in every sort of way, catering to her every whim. Being the best boy(?)friend a girl could ask for. But I can't get passed the notion that if a girl wanted to sleep with a guy, wouldn't she just date a guy? Not another girl who wants to be seen as a guy?

I have never really been a part of a big gay community. In fact, when I have come into contact with such communities, I'm usually kind of put off by them for one reason or another (the organization of the community, not the actual people in it). Anyhow, what I am wondering now is how common it might be for girls to date other girls who prefer to be viewed as boys in the bedroom. Should I bother trying to find a female like this? Do they exist or am I doomed to be with the "wrong" gender while also feeling like I am the "wrong" gender?

I am moving to Toronto in about 20 days. If anyone has any advice pertaining to where a shy tomboy might ease out of the closet in Toronto, please feel free to give it!

Okay, so my other question was about TTC and pg. I feel very conflicted. On the one hand, I am very much a tomboy. On the other hand, I can't stop thinking about how great being full of baby and glowing like a radiant woman felt when I was pregnant. I want to feel it again. I loved being pregnant SO much. I've been reading this site a lot, and following many of your stories as they unfold. I have come to two conclusions. 1. I need to find a girlfriend. 2. I need to have another baby, and soon. But which one first?! I have raised my daughter basically alone. I mean, I had a couple boyfriends but she was always raised by me. Truthfully, I don't mind that. I don't mind it at all. But I can't help wondering if perhaps it might be a better experience if I shared it with someone who I could fall in love with. And also, what if we could have another one by her womb, too?! I would get to go through the whole experience yet again, only from a new angle and perspective! That rocks my socks.

Why is it that I can see the pictures in my head, but when I open my eyes it seems like there are 14 mountains to climb and they are all sitting right in my way? Sigh*

I'm not really sure what I am asking here anymore. This is a whopper of a post, though, and I should cut it off before it becomes a novel.

I do know that there are a lot of strong, and positive people hanging out on this site. And I guess that is what I need these days. I need to connect with other strong mamas. With other strong women. Even with not so strong women. I need to connect with myself, too. I really hope a clearer path can be found, cause right now my goggles are pretty caked with mud and I'm kind of nervous about that.

Sorry this post was so long. Thanks for reading. Thanks in advance, for responding.

[FtMPapa]

Hey, I live in Toronto! There is a huge gay scene here, I'm not really into it, a lot of it is around bars and stuff.

There is the Queer Parenting Exchange, that might be a good place for you!

[mumma#2]

Sexuality and gender identity IMO are very broad in definition. There are no set categories that you have to put yourself into. Most large GLBT communities realize this and will accept anyone. I am sure TO is no different.

[FtMPapa]

Completely random, but I have a Dane, too! She's sleeping on the couch right now.

[theMword]

Originally Posted by Arriotty

Hi there!

So, in thinking what sort of female I might like to attempt to date, I have really hit a wall. I mean, my problem is not that I'm not sure what I am attracted to. I know just what kind of girl I am physically attracted to. The problem is the way she sees me. I am very much a tomboy, I always have been. I have some quirks, I guess. I don't like to be touched, but I love to touch others. In bed, I don't want her to see me as a female. I don't even want her to acknowledge my breasts. If at all possible I would rather keep them hidden at all times. I have every kind of daydream about pleasing this fantasy girl in every sort of way, catering to her every whim. Being the best boy(?)friend a girl could ask for. But I can't get passed the notion that if a girl wanted to sleep with a guy, wouldn't she just date a guy? Not another girl who wants to be seen as a guy?

Nononononono.
I have no desire for men, but I love butches, and you will find that there are queer women out there who love to be with women like you!
I'm very femme (though I feel really schlumpy-frumpy since dd was born!). My partner is butch. We've been together for 11 years, and that dynamic has evolved over time, and we thrive on it. She does not like to be touched in bed (that *is* hard for me... the first several years of our relationship she welcomed touch, and I do miss it a lot, sigh) but there are queer women for whom not touching their partners is no big deal.
Touching or not, I adore being able to coddle her masculinity, to help create the fantasies that revolve around it.
So no, I would not just date a guy. It's not the dynamic I want. And yes, you should bother finding a girl who wants a girl like you. There are probably more out there than you realize...

[TheGirls]

My partner is in some ways the opposite of you (LOVES to be touched in any way, at any time, lol) and in some ways like you. She has a very masculine energy and personality. She is regularly mistaken for a man in public. She's been a tomboy her entire life. She does not currently own a skirt or dress. But neither of us feels that she was born in the wrong body - she is a woman, and likes it that way. If, heaven forbid, something were to happen to her or our relationship, I would be out looking for other masculine women, I can't imagine dating a man again. It's really not the same.

BTW, women like her (and you) seem to find themselves very much in demand around here, so apparently there are quite a few women who want to date masculine women.

As far as the other question, how long are you willing to wait before having another baby? If you're sleeping with women for the first time, I expect you're going to want to wait a few years before you actually want to start making babies with someone... So if you really feel that you need to have a baby *SOON* and you're ok with going it alone, that might be the thing to do. Though you should still have plenty of time, if you want to wait to try for a partner first (you can always try by yourself in a few years if the partner thing doesn't work out).

[Arriotty]

Originally Posted by theMword

Nononononono.
I have no desire for men, but I love butches, and you will find that there are queer women out there who love to be with women like you!
I'm very femme (though I feel really schlumpy-frumpy since dd was born!). My partner is butch. We've been together for 11 years, and that dynamic has evolved over time, and we thrive on it. She does not like to be touched in bed (that *is* hard for me... the first several years of our relationship she welcomed touch, and I do miss it a lot, sigh) but there are queer women for whom not touching their partners is no big deal.
Touching or not, I adore being able to coddle her masculinity, to help create the fantasies that revolve around it.
So no, I would not just date a guy. It's not the dynamic I want. And yes, you should bother finding a girl who wants a girl like you. There are probably more out there than you realize...

Okay, I really needed to read this! Thanks so much. It really seems like no big deal, I guess, for you to take the time to type this out. But to me, this short paragraph is almost life changing. You're awesome, thank you again.

FtMPapa, thanks for your post as well. I had read somewhere that you were in Toronto, I was hoping you'd stop in here and tell me about the community there. The thing is I'm not really into the club/bar scene. The gay communities I have been involved with in the past seemed to revolve around the nightlife and party scenes as well, it kind of puts me off. I don't know if I am just boring or if it is a control issue, but I'm really not into partying. My idea of a great party is a few friends, a backyard, a kickass barbeque and real music being played on real instruments around a wicked fire built in a fire pit that I've built into some sort of artistic masterpiece. Anyhow, your second option sounded more like a place I might check out. Once I get there I'll have to look in to it.

Originally Posted by TheGirls

My partner is in some ways the opposite of you (LOVES to be touched in any way, at any time, lol) and in some ways like you. She has a very masculine energy and personality. She is regularly mistaken for a man in public. She's been a tomboy her entire life. She does not currently own a skirt or dress. But neither of us feels that she was born in the wrong body - she is a woman, and likes it that way. If, heaven forbid, something were to happen to her or our relationship, I would be out looking for other masculine women, I can't imagine dating a man again. It's really not the same.

BTW, women like her (and you) seem to find themselves very much in demand around here, so apparently there are quite a few women who want to date masculine women.

The bolded parts are like you're describing me to a tee. It's really very confusing. I quite love being a woman and would not have it any other way. But on the other hand, I quite like being mistaken for a man in public, I could not imagine wearing make up, or a skirt and heels. I walk like a guy, I look like a guy, I act a lot like a guy, but I collect victorian clad porcelain dollies. It's all very confusing. It's like it changes several times a day. One minute I'm feeling more girlish than boyish, and it is apparent in my actions or emotions at the time or whatever. Another minute I'm feeling like I need to walk around with my chest puffed out and give cute girls that come fusk me look. Bah! I went to a "psychic" once. Never met the woman before. First thing she told me is that I have dual energies about me at all times. Both male and female. She touched a bit on the conflict this creates within me. It clicked. Made sense. The rest of her reading was useless, however. In my head it just is so hard to make sense of. How can I feel both? How the heck am I going to make that work for me?! Gah! I'm so confused.

Also, this emoticon ---> is : crap, which makes me chuckle.

I think the bottom line is that I am right fusked up, which seems about par for everyone else around me too. I guess that helps. Thank you folks for the replies. You guys are superstars!

[Arriotty]

Originally Posted by FtMPapa

Completely random, but I have a Dane, too! She's sleeping on the couch right now.

I want a dane too! I'm holding out to afford one of the blue danes. Have you seen them? God they are gorgeous. They are this velvetty silver/blue colour. They are so awesome looking in the sun. Costs about 2 thousand for one, though.

[mumma#2]

Originally Posted by TheGirls

She has a very masculine energy and personality. She is regularly mistaken for a man in public. She's been a tomboy her entire life. She does not currently own a skirt or dress. But neither of us feels that she was born in the wrong body - she is a woman, and likes it that way.

Sounds like me too...


oh and...I adore danes. As soon as our little one can walk okay on his own I want to get a dane pup. Mine is a mantle but I'd love to have blue dane. Gorgeous dogs!!! Okay sorry... Don't mean to be one of those dykes that goes on and on about her dog... Ha ha ha!

[FtMPapa]

Originally Posted by Arriotty

I want a dane too! I'm holding out to afford one of the blue danes. Have you seen them? God they are gorgeous. They are this velvetty silver/blue colour. They are so awesome looking in the sun. Costs about 2 thousand for one, though.

I adore the blue danes. I've always wanted a male blue with uncropped ears. Having been through Monty's ear cropping aftercare, I would never crop a dog's ears. (She was cropped before we got her, she was supposed to be someone else's dog, but we took her when they backed out.) At some point, probably close to ten years from now, I will have another Dane.

The thing is, with a Dane, and with any dog, really, is not the purchase price. Monty cost around $1000, but that was almost six years ago. Since then, she has racked up vet expenses, insurance expenses, food expenses, the cost of accessories like leashes, winter coats, and boots, plus toys and training for her, crates, dog walkers and boarding (though I have not yet had to pay for dog walking, but I'm expecting to in the future). The original grand was just a drop in the bucket.

Plus, in Ontario, it's great, but I'm moving to MA and it is very hard to find an apartment that will allow a Great Dane to take up residency.

[amymarie]

hi arriotty....i just wanted to say that i, and lots of others, love masculine girls.....i dont think there is anything wrong with identifying with both genders and i have friends who are happy being neither....gender blenders are hot and you sound like a great mother....i have been with mostly men my whole life but recently found myself in a wonderful relationship with a ftm....

[gamitzer]

Welcome, Arriotty! I think you have a lot more to offer than you think you do! And I think you will be surprised at how welcoming the lesbian community is in terms of butch/femme stuff and gender variation. My personal opinion on lesbians is that we have gone through a lot of personal discovery to end up where we are, so we are understanding and welcoming of that in other people. I mean, I had a hard time coming to terms with myself as a feminine lesbian because I didn't know there was such a thing when I was growing up. I actually thought it was an oxymoron. So I tried to be butch, but it was ridiculous because it just wasn't me at all. And I think my wife had a similar viewpoint when she was growing up. When she went to college, she chopped all her hair off in order to look more like a "lesbian". And now although her hair has gotten longer, she still prefers men's clothing to women's clothing and refuses to admit that the bag she carries is a purse. Her butchness doesn't come up very often, but now that she is pregnant I think she is realizing that the maternity clothing industry has no idea that there are pregnant butch ladies. Ah well.
The only thing I think may be a problem is your desire to not be touched in bed. That would certainly be an obstacle for me. I do think that there are women out there who will be fine with your restriction/desire, but it may not be easy for them to understand. Then again, I think everyone has their own preferences in bed, anyway, so it may not be a problem at all.
Good luck and I hope Toronto works out for you! Meredith

[Arriotty]

Originally Posted by gamitzer

Welcome, Arriotty! I think you have a lot more to offer than you think you do! And I think you will be surprised at how welcoming the lesbian community is in terms of butch/femme stuff and gender variation. My personal opinion on lesbians is that we have gone through a lot of personal discovery to end up where we are, so we are understanding and welcoming of that in other people. I mean, I had a hard time coming to terms with myself as a feminine lesbian because I didn't know there was such a thing when I was growing up. I actually thought it was an oxymoron. So I tried to be butch, but it was ridiculous because it just wasn't me at all. And I think my wife had a similar viewpoint when she was growing up. When she went to college, she chopped all her hair off in order to look more like a "lesbian". And now although her hair has gotten longer, she still prefers men's clothing to women's clothing and refuses to admit that the bag she carries is a purse. Her butchness doesn't come up very often, but now that she is pregnant I think she is realizing that the maternity clothing industry has no idea that there are pregnant butch ladies. Ah well.
The only thing I think may be a problem is your desire to not be touched in bed. That would certainly be an obstacle for me. I do think that there are women out there who will be fine with your restriction/desire, but it may not be easy for them to understand. Then again, I think everyone has their own preferences in bed, anyway, so it may not be a problem at all.
Good luck and I hope Toronto works out for you! Meredith

*ahem* I may also suffer from this problem. It really isn't my fault! They need to come up with a better term for a purse. It just sounds way too...girlie? Of course, always saying "Where is my bag?" sounds a bit revolting as well. I'm always left with a blank spot in my brain when I want to refer to the bag I carry. I'm going to think of something to call it, and coin that word for lesbians everywhere, damnit.

With regards to not wanting to be touched in bed, I think it is a combination of two things. First, I don't want to be touched anywhere that is going to make me feel like a girl. I'm really not sure why. It may change with experience, though. Second, Since having my little girl, my body has gone downhill. I gained 60 pounds with her, then had a wacked out problem with my thyroid for a couple years, it caused more weight gain and all kinds of other problems that took ages to get under control. Now the last couple of years I get my periods for anywhere from 3 to 5 months at a time. I'm not kidding! They tell me I have polycystic ovary disease and that is what is causing it. But an ultrasound revealed no cysts. Go figure, they still refuse to change the diagnosis and I am left bleeding constantly and wondering what the hell is up. As a result, I lack energy a lot of days, and am usually low in iron an anemic every few months. It's a vicious cycle really. Anyways, losing the weight hasn't been happening, and my self esteem has taken a nose dive. I was used to being muscly and pretty okay with my body until 6 years ago. Now I view my body as something I cannot stand looking at or touching a lot, and can't seem to get my head around the idea that others may not feel the same way. It just seems safer for my ego to just not be touched. Does that make any sense?

[Arriotty]

Originally Posted by amymarie

hi arriotty....i just wanted to say that i, and lots of others, love masculine girls.....i dont think there is anything wrong with identifying with both genders and i have friends who are happy being neither....gender blenders are hot and you sound like a great mother....i have been with mostly men my whole life but recently found myself in a wonderful relationship with a ftm....

Thanks for this. These posts are uplifting! I am starting to realize that perhaps I am in fact not meant to remain alone for the remainder of my days. This is a good feeling. While I know I am strong enough to handle the pangs of lonely for a lifetime as long as my kidlet is happy, I really wasn't looking forward to it.

I think moving to a big city will help a lot. For the last few years I have been living in the middle of nowhere. I walk around in town with short boyish hair and all mens clothing and people stare at me like I've got a fusking crocodile hanging off my buttcheek or something! Ridiculous. I've actually stopped and stared right back at them with a questioning look on my face. Only to have them ask me incredulously, "What?" What the heck do you mean what?! You're bug eyed and staring straight at me! Bah!

[gamitzer]

That would be a great idea! She carries an LLBean bag in a butchly blue, grey and black. But still...it's a purse to me! And I know she loves it that I call it her purse...yeah, right! I joke that I will rename it (a la Seinfeld) her European Carryall if she doesn't come up with a better name. Keep me posted if you come up with a good one.

[amymarie]

Originally Posted by Arriotty

I've actually stopped and stared right back at them with a questioning look on my face. Only to have them ask me incredulously, "What?" What the heck do you mean what?! You're bug eyed and staring straight at me! Bah!

thats funny! i get stared at a lot too....i have short boyish hair and am flat chested and don't wear makeup so it confuses people....even though i totally identify with being a girl and love it i also like looking androgynous.....i don't get hit on by straight boys as much....i definantly think moving to a big city will help....i live in the bay area and here are tons of femmes who love butches and neithers and trannys and everything in between....i can relate to your not liking to be touched too....my boyfriend doesn't like to be touched "down below" sometimes....but as long as hes still touching me then everything is great....i understand why he doesn't like it and know it has nothing to do with me....it has to do with him not wanting to have what he has down there....and before he had his top surgery i never even saw his breasts...when you meet someone and it feels right then they will understand your needs and wants and it will work out perfect...

[Arriotty]

Originally Posted by FtMPapa

I adore the blue danes. I've always wanted a male blue with uncropped ears. Having been through Monty's ear cropping aftercare, I would never crop a dog's ears. (She was cropped before we got her, she was supposed to be someone else's dog, but we took her when they backed out.) At some point, probably close to ten years from now, I will have another Dane.

The thing is, with a Dane, and with any dog, really, is not the purchase price. Monty cost around $1000, but that was almost six years ago. Since then, she has racked up vet expenses, insurance expenses, food expenses, the cost of accessories like leashes, winter coats, and boots, plus toys and training for her, crates, dog walkers and boarding (though I have not yet had to pay for dog walking, but I'm expecting to in the future). The original grand was just a drop in the bucket.

Plus, in Ontario, it's great, but I'm moving to MA and it is very hard to find an apartment that will allow a Great Dane to take up residency.

I've always wanted a male blue with the cropped ears. I think they look so much more regal with them cropped. More manly somehow, or something. Makes them look like they are always proud and alert. The problem, of course, is that when it comes to animals I am a complete suck. I sicken myself, really. I once had my cat bring in a baby rat, still pink, no ears, eyes fused shut. The rat was unchewed and alive. I bought kitten milk and a syringe to feed it, I kept him nestled in my sports bra cleavage to keep him warm, and even had to mimic his mothers licking his tummy to make him poop and pee. Of course, I used a wet fingertip, not my tongue, though! Anyways, the little bugger lived and I set him free once he was old enough. The point is, I could never knowingly crop a dogs ears. If somehow, the dog came to me already cropped and the work done for me, well then I would probably feel bad about it but I'd probably really love the look of it too. I just couldn't do it myself.

I have the same problem with babies and circumcision. On the one hand, as a woman who has been with men, I prefer the lack of foreskin, ten to one every time. I am really grossed out by foreskin, in fact. But if I were to have a baby boy, I don't think I could knowingly put him through that pain. This poses a huge problem and causes a lot of anxiety for me, as someone who is quite interested in having at least one more child, preferably more.

[Arriotty]

Originally Posted by amymarie

thats funny! i get stared at a lot too....i have short boyish hair and am flat chested and don't wear makeup so it confuses people....even though i totally identify with being a girl and love it i also like looking androgynous.....i don't get hit on by straight boys as much....i definantly think moving to a big city will help....i live in the bay area and here are tons of femmes who love butches and neithers and trannys and everything in between....i can relate to your not liking to be touched too....my boyfriend doesn't like to be touched "down below" sometimes....but as long as hes still touching me then everything is great....i understand why he doesn't like it and know it has nothing to do with me....it has to do with him not wanting to have what he has down there....and before he had his top surgery i never even saw his breasts...when you meet someone and it feels right then they will understand your needs and wants and it will work out perfect...

I've thought about the top surgery. I think for different reasons though. When I was 14 I had a boy from school try to rape me at a party. Well, he didn't get very far with that, and I ended up beating the hell out of him with a baseball bat. However he did manage to grab it from me at one point and swing as hard as he could at me. The blow landed in the middle of my left breast. That breast never grew again, but the other one did. I am now left with quite a lopsided difference. The smaller one even posed a problem while breastfeeding, it just absolutely would not produce enough milk. It would empty quickly and take longer to refill, it also had no room to stretch with milk. I assume because of scar tissue. After all the hassles I went through with the breastfeeding, and the breastfeeding being the only thing I ever really found a use for my breasts with...well yeah. If I can't use them to feed a baby adequately, then what the heck good are they? My back would probably feel better if I just cut them off! The do nothing for me sexually, I quite dislike them being touched in a sexual manner in fact, with a male or a female. I just think not having them would be more efficient.

As far as not wanting what I have "down there", I don't think I feel that way. I'm totally a tomboy butch, but I am a woman and quite okay what that. I wouldn't feel right being refered to as a "he". Not that I think there is any problem with people who feel the opposite. When not in the bedroom, I have no problem with being a girl dating another girl. I quite like the idea, really. But in the bedroom I just can't seem to see myself as a girl sleeping with a girl. I always see more of the boy in myself coming out then. More of a primal thing, I think. I'm not sure, it's quite hard to explain.

[Arriotty]

Originally Posted by gamitzer

That would be a great idea! She carries an LLBean bag in a butchly blue, grey and black. But still...it's a purse to me! And I know she loves it that I call it her purse...yeah, right! I joke that I will rename it (a la Seinfeld) her European Carryall if she doesn't come up with a better name. Keep me posted if you come up with a good one.

Oh, I know your type! I dated a girl very briefly recently. She just LOVED to tease me mercilessly about my carrying a dreaded purse. Do you know, I even have trouble typing that word?! I'm such a dork. I had to stop carrying the bag around her. I just learned to keep my wallet in my back pocket, and leave everything else I'd normally carry around at home. It sucked! Damnit, I have a kid, I need to carry stuff around!

I will definitely keep you posted if I think of a better word for it. Also, I added a huge edit to my above response to you, don't know if you saw it. I am the queen of afterthoughts, you understand. It's a curse, I'm pretty sure my mother is at fault somehow. I'm not sure how, really, but she always laughs at me for it, so I'm blaming her.

[amymarie]

Originally Posted by Arriotty

,
But in the bedroom I just can't seem to see myself as a girl sleeping with a girl. I always see more of the boy in myself coming out then. More of a primal thing, I think. I'm not sure, it's quite hard to explain.

i think you explained it wonderfully....i love being human....we are all so unique and different and just because your a woman does not mean you act like one in the bedroom....