Parochial schools

[Lingmom]

I have an incoming 5 year old kindergartener.
We did not win the magnet school lottery, we did not get into a fantastic private school (but nor could we afford the 16$/yr tuition, so it's probably for the best), and our local public school is highly underperforming and rife with tales of bullying, teacher morale problems, poor discipline, etc...
Moving this year is not an option.
Homeschooling is definitely not an option.

The next (I feel only) other choice is a local Catholic school which is extremely close, well-liked by parents, affordable and nicely diverse. While I have a philosophy of education that is pretty traditional and I think my daughter will do great in any kind of setting, I'm concerned about some elements of Catholicism (political views and social conservatism and papal authority) and I'd like to know if these are things that are discussed in Catholic schools.

Does anyone have experiences with parochial schools that can offer me some reassurance or advice?

[mpeel]

My girls are in an Episcopalian school. They have chapel every morning and hear a Bible story. Otherwise, most of the curriculum is mainstream, not Bible-based. In fact, their curriculum is less Bible-based than many of the "regular" private schools. Many of those here use Abeka across the board.

I would ask to have a tour of the school and a meeting with the headmaster. Find out what they do. Schools differ so much. One parochial school here does not have chapel even weekly. The only have religion classes for the upper grades. Take a look at their curriculum. There are so many options now and you may or may not find a good fit for your family, no matter what every one else thinks.

[Lingmom]

We actually are Episcopalian, so it's not a far leap to Catholicism... but it is a leap. We're also gay. The school says it's not a problem for them, so I will take their word on it. I'm a little worried still though. It's not a modern progressive Catholic school, but more of an "urban mission" kind of a school with about half the teachers nuns. Anyway, I guess mothering.com is probably the wrong venue to ask these questions.
Thanks though!

[meowee]

I have considered p. school and we are not christian. I am taking a tour of one tomorrow, I will let you know how it goes. This one is kind of an urban mission too. I know a few people who went to p. school and they were not christian... at least from what they have told me, the religious part of it isn't TOO heavy handed.

[meowee]

Dob-- if you post this in the main school forum you might get more responses.

[meowee]

Okay, I said I would report back: the school was small (k-8, 311 students) compared to the public school (k-5, 850+ kids). They are very strict about academics, the K academic work she showed me looked like first grade. I asked if they every had fun or playtime in kindergarten, and she said, "not really" (i.e. all academic...). So I'm not sure what to do.

[wytchywoman]

FWIW, here are my experiences as a kid going to parochial schools ( I am now 35 so I am sure that things have changed a bit):
K-3: Episcopalian school- I hated it. My teachers had to rip me away from my momscreaming and crying practically every day for four years. The teachers by and large were extremely mean. I had one math teacher that I now know was extremely mysognistic, He even brought his wife to class one time and treated her extremely abusively in front of us kids. The nuns were horrible. Discipline was a crack across the nuckles with a ruler. Education was poor. My twin brother had to be held back a year when we transferred schools because they just simply didn't teach us well.
4-6: Private Lutheran Elementary- Things improved a little here. Admin was better and cracked down on teasing and whatnot, but it could have been a whole lot better. Again had a male teacher who loved to scream at students, this time he was not gender specific. Education not fabulous but it was OK.
7-8: Private Lutheran MS- This was hell on earth for me. There were only 150 students in 3 grade levels and TONS of bullying. Education was totally craptastic, I was failing and the teachers didn't even care and never bothered to let my parents know ( and BTW I was failing because their teaching sucked, not because I wasn't trying). My parents complained to the principal multiple times because of all the bullying I was subjected to but he never did anything about it. I begged and pleaded to be transferred to a public school and from there on things were smooth sailing. Shortly after I left the school got shut down because it was so sub-standard in every way.

The biggest mistake my parents made was to assume that all public schools are bad and all parochial and private schools are good. I am not saying that you are mistaken in your judgement of the schools in your area, because it sounds like you've done your homework. I just wanted to say that there are some really, really rotten parochial schools out there. Hopefully the nuckle cracking rulers and screaming teachers are a thing of the past, but as an adult it always seems to me that the administration was not as on top of their teachers as they are in the public schools I have sent my sons to ( and I have had the same experience with magnet schools). I hope you find a good school for your DC.

Namaste,

Michelle

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Interesting choices. I'm another Episcopalian, so I know where you are starting from. I would consider Catholic School as long as I had a clear understanding of how much religious education there was and how they dealt with non-Catholic children. I would be especially aware of the procedure for non-Catholic children around issues like first Communion. But these should be fairly easy questions to ask and get answers to.

Is your child relgiously aware enough that you can say "Some people believe X but we believe Y" and he'll be OK with that? We've had several of these conversations with 7 YO DS lately. He goes to a private Christian-based school and his best friends are Catholic. There was a lot of conversation around Easter and he had questions about the differences in approach. Actually really cool conversations and I was glad for the chance to expand on our beliefs.

I guess you have to take their word for the fact that your non-traditional family is not going to be an issue. You might find out if they do any formal "diversity" training or have an anti-teasing or bullying policy in place. If they do it might even be a better place for your family than a public school.

[mammastar2]

I would want to probe much more deeply into what it means when they say it's 'not a problem' that you're gay. There's a big difference between being accepting of all family forms and just not overlty condemning a particular child for her sinful family form, if you see what I mean...

[Thalia the Muse]

A lot depends on which teaching order the school is affiliated with, I think. I went to Catholic junior high, high school, and college in the '80s. It was not a conservative environment; since it was the '80s, the students were way more socially conservative than most of the teachers! We never got anti-gay messages and we learned a lot about Catholic social activists -- Mother Seton and the Maryknolls. We had Passover seders in class, etc.

Academically, my high school was quite weak. The junior high was excellent.

[meowee]

Also-- you must must must get an inside parent's opinion on the school. I have stopped a few parents outside this school and asked what they thought of the school. I also found a message board about local schools and asked for opinions. All opinions were "okay" to excellent.

[Lingmom]

Thank you all for your posts!

The parents I've talked to really like the school and it has a good reputation in our city. And I liked the kindergarten and first grade teachers. Over half the kids aren't Catholic. The nuns are Sisters of Our Lady of the Garden, which according to my quick google research seem to have only a mission at that particular school and someplace in the Congo? They're older Italian and Indian women and all seemed very pleasant.

As for whether our family is 'accepted' vs 'tolerated' vs 'not overtly condemned', I'd be fine if our family was not discussed at all by them. I'm glad they're open to us coming and I'm sure that even the most homophobic person would realize that we are a pleasant family with two polite and delightful little girls. Perhaps we can change a few minds along the way.

I guess it's easy to see that I've made up my mind... I guess I'm just looking for reassurance that it's going to be okay. It's not perfect, I know that... but I'm hopeful that it'll be a reasonable choice for us. If I'm wrong, I guess I'll sort it out when it happens.

[Mommabelle]

We are an Episcopal family at Catholic school. The education is great. I did not realize, naivly, how different the religions were though. The mass is mostly the same and that's what I was basing it on I guess. I think someone mentioned it depends what order your school is sponsored by and that is probably very true. I had no idea the extent of Marian devotion. Our school is Marist sponsored so this may be why they have mostly Marian prayers. I have googled more stuff on religion this year! My 5 year old was singing the tune of Yes Jesus loves me, but was singing yes Mary loves me just this week! I find we end up as a family talking about religion alot. I sometimes get tired of it, but I guess it's a good thing. I got a little nervous about the Pro-Life stuff being brought into my dd's 1st grade classroom. I really felt that was way too young to discuss that stuff with. This is our first year and next year we will be more prepared. I do like that they have prayer throughout the day and that the religion class that meets once a week is pretty much basic religion. Overall, I'm very happy with the curriculum and it's a very family oriented school.

[Lingmom]

Exactly... we're pretty high church Anglo-Catholic so the mass *looks* the same (actually we might outdo them in incense and fanciness), but it's the idea that political issues could be discussed. Also, we'll have to have some conversations about different religions. She knows that "everyone is welcome at God's table" (ie everybody regardless of religion or age can participate in communion), I think she'd be devastated to find she wasn't welcome. Although I wonder with so many non-Catholic and pre-first communion aged kids they don't celebrate the Eucharist?

I guess we'll find out!

[myjulybabes]

I went to Catholic schools from K-12, and the only political issue I remember being discussed was "pro-life". Unfortunately, the Catholic church has gotten a lot more political lately (one reason I'm no longer practicing). I'd definitely check the school out, on a couple different days, if possible. And check out whether they celebrate the Eucharist, and how often. We did, at least twice a week. My birth son is in a Catholic school now though, and it's less often at his. At the churches I've been to, the priest will offer a blessing to those too young for communion or those of other faiths, but they are not allowed to partake in communion.

Lots of things to look at! If you can get past the other issues, I've always found the academics at Catholic schools to be quite good though.

[midwestaimee]

asdf

Good post & I am a little late to the party.

I am a very socially / politically active person & it stems directly from my Catholic school upbringing. The nuns taught us a duty to social justice - none of the abortion stuff - but about helping the poor and fighting against injustices. I know it differs from place to place but my experience is very good.

And we are trying to decide on a Catholic school for our 5YO foster son.

I am a strong believer in Catholic education but a huge cynic of the Catholic church.

Peace.