Am I being selfish ????? - Page 2

[prothyraia]

What I'm getting from this post is less "I want my partner work so that we can have lots of things for the kids" and more "I want my partner to work so that the sole responsibility of financially providing for the entire family doesn't fall on my shoulders". Which certainly isn't selfish! Working outside the home is easier than being a stay at home parent, but that pressure is at least a little scary.

Like everyone else said, this is really something you need to discuss with your partner. And if you're even a little bit creative and flexible, you can come up with many different options to try and get everyone's needs met. You can both work part-time and arrange your schedules so someone is always home with the baby. She can stay home while the kids are young, and maybe YOU can stay home when they're older. You can work full time, and after taking maternity leave she can go back to work part-time so that her job skills stay fresh and if there's a crisis she can jump in.

Once the two of you figure out what your priorities (and fears!) are, you can build from that.

[MilkTrance]

Something to keep in mind:

If she does NOT plan to return to work, make sure that you don't use the EI maternity money in your budget -- either save it or treat it as extra, otherwise she will HAVE TO return to work in order to maintain the standard of living you had when she was collecting. KWIM?

[JaneSmith1010]

IMO, terrible plan. For DP to get into the job market only to get preg and then have to leave it again is too difficult.Also, even if she thinks she wants to just take maternity leave now that may not be the case later. What if she wants to breastfeed, that is terrible to do with a baby in daycare. Being pregnant is very, very difficult. She may be sick for a long time, very tired, the hormone changes are tough, etc. You should not expect her to work through pregnancy, stop to have your baby and then leave your baby with strangers at a daycare. Money is not that important. I hope I have not been too blunt, no intent to offend. Oh, this also would do terrible things to her career. No one wants to hire a woman who will get pregnant, no one wants to fill temp positions for women on maternity leave, etc. I had a prof in my PhD program only agree to take me on if I didn't get pregnant...and then we did by accident. I of course didn't take the position and then had to transition from overdrive work mode to settle down and be patient mom mode...very, very tough.

[Novella]

Just a couple of points to consider, although they are somewhat side-issues to your dilemna:

Originally Posted by peps

I personally think we should wait for her to get a job and be able to get maternity leave. That way she will already be in the job market and be able to return to work without any trouble.

It sounds like your DP has been working in BC and that the change back to Quebec will be her time out of employment. As far as federal EI benefits go, she should still be able to collect maternity/parental benefits even if she doesn't start a new job in Quebec (assuming she had enough insurable hours in BC, etc).

Looking beyond that to her possible post-baby return to the workforce, a plan to get her gainfully employed in Quebec might stall baby plans for a while. Consider the time it will take to find a new job in Quebec. Then consider that if the employee has less than 7-9 months service at the time the maternity leave starts (this varies whether the employer is provincially-legislated or federally-legislated re: employment laws) then the employer will not be required to return her to a same/equivalent position following her leave.

Originally Posted by Irish

-any top-up received from your employer (I work for the fed gov and my salary is topped up to 93%) would have to be paid back if you didn't return to work after the year long mat/parental leave

This is not the case with all employers. I received top-up from my previous employer (a chartered bank), then switched to a new one at the end of a maternity leave. No return of benefits was required. My husband used to be a teacher and was involved in his association's success a few years ago in getting a maternity top-up added to their contract. Teachers for that school division likewise were not required to repay top-ups if they didn't return to work.

[tuffykenwell]

Originally Posted by ManitobaMom

It sounds like your DP has been working in BC and that the change back to Quebec will be her time out of employment. As far as federal EI benefits go, she should still be able to collect maternity/parental benefits even if she doesn't start a new job in Quebec (assuming she had enough insurable hours in BC, etc).

Just wanted to point out that your EI hours "expire" 52 weeks after they have accrued so if DP got pregnant immediately and moved to QC and they had their baby she would likely only get about 4 months of mat/parental leave rather than 50 weeks she would get otherwise (now I realize that 4 months sounds like heaven for many american women but its a lot less then almost a year.

Another thing to consider is that DP would only need 600 insurable hours to collect mat/parental leave which is about 4 months of FT work. If she could swing getting a job even temporarily after your return to QC so that she could qualify for the one year leave then the two of you could talk separately about her staying home for awhile and the feasibility of that. You should have that talk before you have children though.

Good luck!

Steph

[snowmom11]

Definitely talk it through. I think your concerns are perfectly valid and your DP probably either shares them or has some of her own. People have different comfort zones about financial security and balancing career v. parenthood. Some people are very good at SAHP and as a family are able to live a satisfactory lifestyle on one income for years and years. Others are WOHPs and do best that way. Only you and your DP can decide what is the best option for you (keeping in mind that either or both of you may feel differently in the future).

There's nothing wrong with being a little bit selfish if it helps you make the best decisions for you and your loved ones.

[Juvysen]

Originally Posted by lilyka

what if they want a stay at home mom? i can't imagine any cute outfits or toys that would be more valuable for a child than having an attentive loving mom with them.

:

What's the point of having babies and then sending them to someone else for most of their waking hours if you don't have to?

[GuildJenn]

I think both of your positions make sense.

Here's what I think would help in your discussions.

First, crunch the numbers. What is the financial picture in each potential scenario? I know in Quebec daycare is pretty inexpensive, but there are other costs associated with working. Lay them out.

Next, separate out what you believe about childrearing from what you think is best for her.

For example, she might think that kids should be primarily at home with their parents until they are, say, 5. Her staying home is only one way to achieve that. Are you willing to take a turn staying home, or working part time to achieve that?

That sort of discussion can help to clarify where the issue really is. If it's that she wants to stay home, personally, then that is her goal and you decide if you want to support her in that or not.

Also, remember that no decision is irrevocable. She can work and then quit, or stay home and then get a job.

I also just wanted to add that I kind of get where you are coming from. I love my career and am going back to work, which is also taking some of the "provider" pressure off my husband - something that is a bit of a strain on our AP goals, but after staying home for 2 years I think it is right for our family. Dividing the roles along traditional sex lines was just not working for us, and that was an important reality to consider.

We've found care that we think supports our son appropriately, although we'll see how it goes.

[nylecoj]

I have not read everything here, so sorry if this is redundant.

The one thing I wanted to comment on is that if she does want to return to the work force soon after she has a baby, it will be more difficult to re-enter after a leave of absence. I was in a similar situation (but I was 6+ mos pregnant when we moved) and it was a bit more difficult for me to get a job than I'd anticipated.

If you expect her to contribute and she ends up not wanting to, you're going to be very resentful. You should definitely figure it out before you TTC.

[Starflower]

Originally Posted by BuddhaBuddy

Anyone who thinks a SAHM isn't "earning her keep" needs to make a list of what she does all day long, then price out how much it would cost to replace her. THAT is how much money she makes staying at home, and you would be AMAZED at how much it adds up to.

Just saw this - thanks, hon!

[Longhorn]

I just wanted to put in my two cents. My DH and I had this discussion a LONG time ago and decided that I would stay at home with our child when we did actually have one. In my own husbands words "I'd rather have my child raised by its mother and live off of one paycheck, than pay someone else to watch it and have you work just so we can have huggies instead of luvs, or a new car instead of a used one." I think that sums it up right there...it is a womans instincts to be with a child, and I think that if she wants to stay at home you should honor that.

[sea_joy]

The Pressure

In discussions with my DH, it seems to us that the pressure of being a SAHM is equivocal to the pressure of being financially responsible for the family.

I don't understand when people TTC knowing that they will put their kids in daycare under 3 years old. If you NEED to work, like, you don't have enough to eat, then of course it's a different circumstance.

The truth is, a man should consider any fear or trepidation of being depended on before he has children (if possible). Being financially responsible for a family is a big deal, but have you considered it an honor instead of a bane?


As for being a financially indipendant woman, what are you going to do, have seperate bank accounts? You are going to merge as a family, financially speaking, no matter what you do. Plus, you can't force indipendence on someone, that just antithetical to the whole idea. It may be that your DP may want to return to work after two year, it may be that she wants to return at 5 years. She may want to work from home a little.
But really, it is very intense to be a Mother, period. Babies depend on your body for food and comfort. You take care of every bodily and emotional need - and there is NO END IN SIGHT, and a good Mother sees this dependence as an honor, my DH loves "taking care of me" and when I mention working, he makes sure I understand I only have to go to work for something I truly love, and for as much or as little as I want. Our plan is for me to indipendently study midwifery. I won't be working for 5 years or more.....And I do consider myself financially indipendant, because dh's money IS MY MONEY.

Crystal

[Greg B]

I do not think you are being selfish. I think you are trying to come to a decision that is complex and have not yet laid it out so that you and she can make a careful and informed decision. A good method to work through this, beyond simply discussion and pondering is to make a list of what is important to the both of you. For instance, financial independence for her was mentioned. You also mentioned having enough income. Take time to make this list and for each item, ask why a lot, so you can get a feel for why the particular issue is important.

Then figure out how to measure each of these items. You could call them objectives, or desires. For instance, enough income could simply be the dollar amount of salary. Something like financial independnece might be a bit more difficult, so you may need to break some into smaller pieces or be more creative.

Then look at alternatives. Be creative. Would part time work? How about her startig after some period at home with the kids. Get as detailed as you can, and explore how these alternatives each measure up to the various desires you and she have listed.

When you are done with these lists, you may find that the best alternatives jump right out at you. If not, there are various ways to eliminate some until the decision becomes more obvious.

Good luck, and most of all, keed talking with her.

Regards

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by peps

My DP think we should take that opportunity (her not working) to start a family, but even if I am making a good salary, I personally think we should wait for her to get a job and be able to get maternity leave. That way she will already be in the job market and be able to return to work without any trouble. Also I think she needs financial independance.

I don't believe a man should be the only $$$ provider. I want to be able to make a good living and provide my kids with what they want (without spoiling them).

Am i being selfish ?????

I think that if SHE wants to be a SAHM, then you are being selfish to not give her opinions as much weight as yours. (You are also not considering the child's desires, but that's a different post...)
If she agrees with you, then you're not being selfish. It would be nice to take advantage of a year of paid leave. But I can't imagine having to go back to work- even at a year! The stress of finding a provider that is gentle and shares your parenting philosophy might be tough. Also, if you really consider how much money she'd earn, plus how much money would be spent for her to work, you might not end up as positive as you think.

ALSO, if I had to work, I would definitely expect dp to do more around the house, including HALF of the housework and HALF of the childcare, or some agreeable arrangement. I would simply not have the energy to do it all, and I'm sure I would resent it really fast.
That would mean that he'd have to spend half of the time after work, and half of the time during the night, with ds. That wouldn't be a problem for dp- he would do that. But many men wouldn't be willing to spend that much time on housework and childcare. Oh, and cooking. If I had to work fulltime, I'd definitely not have the time or energy to do all the cooking, like I am now.

So consider that- how much is it worth it to you to get a full night's sleep, and being able to come home after work and relax, vs. dealing with toddler whining and tantrums, and repeated requests to "play with me!!!!"

eta- healthy eating and cooking from scratch is much cheaper than convenience foods, but it takes a lot more time. It would be very hard (imo) for a working parent to cook whole food meals on a regular basis.

[MilkTrance]

Originally Posted by Irish

:

I was just coming back to add that 'things' are important to the parents, not the children.

Want to jump in and say that this is SO TRUE. I grew up with both my parents working. Luckily, I was raised (well, during the day) by my grandma. But anyway, I would have LOVED to have spent more time with my parents growing up, especially my Dad who worked long hours.

I'm not sure it was a case of necessity, either, as we were VERY spoiled children.

[MilkTrance]

Originally Posted by jhow32000

IMO, terrible plan. For DP to get into the job market only to get preg and then have to leave it again is too difficult.Also, even if she thinks she wants to just take maternity leave now that may not be the case later. What if she wants to breastfeed, that is terrible to do with a baby in daycare. Being pregnant is very, very difficult. She may be sick for a long time, very tired, the hormone changes are tough, etc. You should not expect her to work through pregnancy, stop to have your baby and then leave your baby with strangers at a daycare. Money is not that important. I hope I have not been too blunt, no intent to offend. Oh, this also would do terrible things to her career. No one wants to hire a woman who will get pregnant, no one wants to fill temp positions for women on maternity leave, etc. I had a prof in my PhD program only agree to take me on if I didn't get pregnant...and then we did by accident. I of course didn't take the position and then had to transition from overdrive work mode to settle down and be patient mom mode...very, very tough.

:

[Laggie]

All I have to say is, please, sort this out before you have kids and not after. I have friends who ended up getting divorced because of the same issue. He wanted her to go back to work, and she wanted to stay home with the kids.
Their custody battle is ongoing, and getting divorced certainly didn't help the husband's financial position - child support and legal fees aren't cheap... and his ex wife is living well below the poverty line. Everybody loses.

[vac70]

Originally Posted by Laggie

All I have to say is, please, sort this out before you have kids and not after. I have friends who ended up getting divorced because of the same issue. He wanted her to go back to work, and she wanted to stay home with the kids.

:
Just repeating what many have said. It is so important that you and DP discuss this before you have kids. Don't just think about what to do with babies either. What if she plans to continue to stay home when they go to school or what if you (both) decide to homeschool? I have friends having a lot of marital problems right now because they agreed she would stay home until the kids go to school. Their twins are in 1st grade now and she is very involved with the PTA and volunteering at their school. He wants her to go back to work and is now giving her a guilt trip every time she spends "his" money.

[choli]

Not selfish at all, and I totally agree with you that she should be financially independent. It's great that you are discussing this BEFORE having a kid, not afterward. SAHM might work for some people, but others feel that it is unfair to put the financial burden on just one partner.

I'd advise using reliable contraception until you work out your joint decision on this matter.

[maplesugar]

I think this additude that a mother needs to "earn her keep" by having a income IS selfish. I also agree it is best to discuss this before kids so your wife can decide if this is a deal breaker or not. For me it certainly would be.

In fact, it was back in the day.

If she wants to work, fine. But I don't think any woman should be pressured to return to work after having a baby. This is a plague of modern society that women are expected to go to work while also performing the duties of a primary caregiver.

There are a lot of benifits to being a stay at home mom, too.