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PLEASE help me - Page 2

post #21 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettyboopbikermom View Post
Here's what we came up with; the next time DH gets DSD he is going to take her by herself and talk to her. He will tell her that we can no longer live this way and it is time for her to decide if she wants to be part of our life or not. If she does then she HAS to start telling the truth. We can no longer fight because we are too busy fighting against her to fight for her.
I think this is just awful. My SS is 11. I know the age. You think they're teenagers, but they are still children. They just don't always look or act like it.

You cannot make a child choose between their parents. Your SD's life is already confusing, difficult, and painful because the two people she loves most in this world fight, argue, speak badly about each other, and live apart. It is completely immoral for you to suggest to her-- for anyone to suggest to her-- that she has to "decide." She's a child. She needs to be taken care of.

This situation isn't her fault. She's being manipulated by her mother, whom she trusts as any child is supposed to trust a parent. I know it must be very difficult for your DH but the child isn't the problem. The ex, the MIL, etc.-- they are.

If you (i.e. your DH) do this to your SD she will never forget, and it will permanently affect her. On those nights when she is alone with her mother, not having seen or spoken to her father in weeks, do you think she'll really feel like "Oh, but this is ok, he said he'll always care about me." I don't think so. She is already damaged by and put in the middle of this situation. Don't worsen it.

There are other options.
As difficult as it is and has been having a SS, going through court battles, etc etc, I couldn't allow my DH to do this. THE CHILD IS NOT THE PROBLEM.
post #22 of 38
I have to agree with Selesai and others that think that approach is very bad.

DSD may not be your first priority, but she should be with her father. And that plan makes it very clear to her that she is dispensible.

It won't matter to her that isn't the message you want her to get. A parent telling a child that she out of the family for telling lies seems horribly harsh to me.
post #23 of 38
Thread Starter 
He would not be telling her to choose sides , just to tell the truth. She is being manipulated, yes, but she also has some control over the situation. She starts the lies and then sits back while everyone fights. If she didn't start the lie then wouldn't that solve at least some issues. We would NEVER tell her she is out of our family, EVER . Only that she has to tell the truth about us. Going to court is all fine, which we will do regardless. However accusations are serious and have to be stopped. How is my 13 year old son going to feel about his sis if she constantly and wrongfully bad mouths him and causes problems. The same for our 5 year old. They will eventually resent her and so will we. I am trying to stop the bus before it crashes. We will fight for her in the court system but if and when we win it will make her mom mad and then what if the accusations get worse, criminal even? Are we to keep hiring attorney after attorney to protect ourselves ? Whether it is through us or not she has to know that she can't push the ball without expecting it to roll into something before stopping.....?
post #24 of 38
Thread Starter 
Another quick note is that I am fairly confident if we fought for custody, we would win. But, then the DSD would resent us for taking her from her mom and worsen the situation. The accusations may become worse because she would be lashing out at us who she will see as the enemy. The DSD is in counseling with her mom but if they don't tell the truth about the situation , the counselor thinks that WE are the cause of the childs problems when in fact we are the only ones ACTUALLY lokking out for her. Thanks SOOOO much to everyone who is taking the time to read through all this drama. (even the ones I don't agree with 8) )
post #25 of 38
Thread Starter 

Refuse visitation=refuse child support ?

Since BM refuses to let DH pick up DSD for court -ordered visitation can he refuse to pay child support ? Both are court ordered ? He was going to open a savings account in DSD's name and deposit the child support amount in it every month until we go back to court . That way it will show that he didn't use the child support money .
post #26 of 38
No, he can't. visitation and CS are separate legal issues. The worst thing he can do to further his case to see his daughter is to withhold CS.
post #27 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettyboopbikermom View Post
Another quick note is that I am fairly confident if we fought for custody, we would win. But, then the DSD would resent us for taking her from her mom and worsen the situation.
That should not stop a father who thinks his child is being mistreated and raised in an emotionally absuive home (which is what you are describing) from taking her out of there.

You wouldn't withhold medical treatment from a child because it will hurt and you are afraid the child will resent you.
post #28 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettyboopbikermom View Post
She is being manipulated, yes, but she also has some control over the situation.
She's 11 right? I think you are seriously over estimating the ability for an 11 year old to resist taking the easy way out when being encouraged and coached to do so by her custodial parent.
post #29 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaNosBest View Post
No, he can't. visitation and CS are separate legal issues. The worst thing he can do to further his case to see his daughter is to withhold CS.
Yeah. He should file a motion for contempt with the court, for her refusing visitation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by offwing View Post
That should not stop a father who thinks his child is being mistreated and raised in an emotionally absuive home (which is what you are describing) from taking her out of there.

You wouldn't withhold medical treatment from a child because it will hurt and you are afraid the child will resent you.
:

Quote:
Originally Posted by offwing View Post
She's 11 right? I think you are seriously over estimating the ability for an 11 year old to resist taking the easy way out when being encouraged and coached to do so by her custodial parent.
: again. Children who are physically abused by their parents will continue to seek their love and affection. I believe the same is true for children who are abused/manipulated in other ways. That is how important it is to a child that they have a relationship with that parent.
post #30 of 38
I feel horribly for this child; she is going to need some serious therapy when she grows up. She probably already does, now.
post #31 of 38
Thread Starter 
Ok I have listened to all of you and spent hours researching. Child support will not be withheld.
I do now realize that being 11 years old she is not able to stop her own manipulation. She is trying to make her mom happy. Because her mom has emotional issues she gets sad when DSD has fun with us . So, DSD makes up things that didn't happen and escalates what does happen to "prove" her dislike for being with us. This feeds her mom's insecurities. It is easy to be mad at DSD and hurt but I do realize she ultimately is the victim. Her mom even told her that I broke up her parents marriage when I didn't even meet her dad until a year after the divorce !
PARENTAL ALEINATION SYNDROME - it actually has a name ! I'm not crazy and I am not the only one.
post #32 of 38
Wow. Thanks for that. Where did you find that?

to you. You'll get through this.

I totally relate, because I'm pretty sure the aunts turned dd against me in the same way. Why on earth would any adult tell a child their sm and their dad had a relationship during the marriage?

I know I've made mistakes, but outside influences like the aunts, and in your case the ex, can sure cause a lot of problems with their lies. It's really hard when the child seems to be pushing you away.

I'm glad you made the decision to continue the child support, because if you stopped it would only cause more problems for you. Dh should immediately notify the court about the visitation problem as other posters said above.

good luck!
post #33 of 38
Thread Starter 

Parental Alienation Syndrome

Google it.
This is when a custodial parent brainwashes the child to turn them against the non-custodial parent. In an effort to make the custodial parent happy the child will even testify to things that are not true.
post #34 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettyboopbikermom View Post
I do now realize that being 11 years old she is not able to stop her own manipulation. She is trying to make her mom happy. Because her mom has emotional issues she gets sad when DSD has fun with us . So, DSD makes up things that didn't happen and escalates what does happen to "prove" her dislike for being with us. This feeds her mom's insecurities. It is easy to be mad at DSD and hurt but I do realize she ultimately is the victim.
Good for you. That took a lot of guts and honesty to change how you were thinking about it and to be so honest about changing your mind.
post #35 of 38
Thread Starter 
I feel SOOO much better now that I know this actually happens to OTHER people . Not that I would ever want anyone to go through it just that we are not crazy ! Also letting go of the anger towards DSD helped a lot. Now I am commited to helping her. I know that is wear I should have been from the start.
One man was killed when his 10 year old shot him over bs like this . It is so ad that adults who once cared for each other can become so evil and use their own children. There are so many kids who don't have a father, I was one of them .
I am determined to be the better person! I will pray for the BM. If she works out her own issues then my life would improve greatly. Maybe I can pray she finds a man.....?
post #36 of 38
pray for her to get help, you wouldn't want to wish her on some unsuspecting man, would you?

I'm so glad you're finding a way to work this out.

Not to threadjack, but that particular syndrome is close to what we have...I don't think they have 'aunt-induced parental alienation.'

We moved far away from all of the bad family influences on all sides of our family tree, but the damage is done and we've got to deal with it now. I am angry that not only did the aunts try to turn her against me, I didn't seek help early enough to prevent the past 2 years of conflict between dd and myself.

Their entire family is manipulative and unbalanced, whereas I only had parents who were nuts. Most of the rest of the family is pretty 'normal.' I just can't get over someone trying to damage their niece's (or in your case, sd) relationship with the sm. It's a case of them being so selfish they don't care who they hurt, especially when it's the child they claim to 'love so much.'

sigh

But back to you, YAY!!! Good going, keep us posted.
post #37 of 38
Coming late to the party (that seems to happen to me a lot!). I'm so sorry this situation has gotten so complicated for you and your family.

Let me be blunt: you need help. Lots of it. These situations can get so convoluted, so ugly, so heartbreaking, that no family, no matter how intelligent, well-meaning, loving, etc., could ever hope to untangle things and make them work again. You are right that your SD is very manipulative, but she doesn't know or understand what she's doing. She can only do what works for her, to make her world feel as secure as she can possibly make it feel. Sounds like BM is unstable; it's hard to pin an unstable parent down and make them be the rock that a child needs a parent to be. So she's taking drastic measures. I'm glad you've chosen not to give her an ultimatum. My DD's BD gave her an ultimatum once (having to do with something much more minor than this, but she hurt his feelings and he struck out) and it wounded her deeply. Her (and she's 11 too) knee-jerk reaction was to reject him because what he said was so dramatic that it frightened her, and she just wanted to run to me for the sake of her emotional security. It's far, far too big a decision for an 11 year old child to make. Her behavior is motivated by something, and until the something is removed, she's powerless to change it. Your SD needs help to make this change.

OK, now for my little speech about the concept that is so dear to my heart: disengagement. Learning to disengage saved my family. I was so incredibly wrapped up in rage and resentment at SS's BM, as well as anger at DH and SS, that I was barely functional. I thought DH wouldn't even try to parent SS if I didn't push him. He was practically paralyzed by his guilt over the divorce. I believed I was holding everything together. But when I was practically suicidal over the whole mess (and it was messy; w/o boring you with all the ugly details, there were child abuse accusations, legal threats, quasi-stalking behavior, the whole nasty drill), I read about disengaging, got myself some professional help, and took the leap. No exaggeration: I believe that that action is the reason my family is intact today. I am at peace. DH and BM are SS's parents. They make the decisions. They bear the responsibility. I love my SS, but we have a relationship that is not parent/child. Hard to describe, since of course I am an authority/parental figure in his life. If you met me at a party and asked how many children I have, I would answer "four" (a number that includes my SS). But I'm not his parent. The best advice I can give you right now is step out of this situation. She's not your kid, this is not your battle. You can be your DH's sounding board, support, advisor, whatever, but his co-parent of his DD is his ex-wife.

I think mediation could really help your DH and BM to sort things out, but all you can do is suggest it to your DH. The best thing to do right now is to lay down the reins. If DH doesn't pick them up immediately, breathe, do yoga, walk around the block until you pass out, whatever it takes to let those reins lay. Your DH will probably pick them up eventually, but even if he doesn't, this isn't your battle.

I wish you the best. I feel so heartbroken for you; I remember all too well how much this stuff hurts. We even had some ILs involved in our situation (they got in on the abuse-accusation act), and there's little in life that has hurt me worse. Hang in there, and know that you're not alone.
post #38 of 38
Thread Starter 
Thanks everyone.
I have made an appointment with both a counselor and a lawyer. DH is not ready to throw in the towel yet, which is surprising. He is hurt that DSD thinks of him as "disposable".
Everyone is right, I am not her parent. For that I am glad! I have much greater expectations for MY children and I therefor get much greater results. I just want DSD to grow up mentally healthy, which at this point seems unlikely.
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