Four Seems To Be A Challenging Age - Page 3

[swampangel]

Hi Pheline4...welcome! I just wanted to say don't feel too badly about the yelling. I really think that as long as it isn't chronic, an occassional outburst is pretty natural and normal. And when you get whacked in the face, it's a pretty natural reaction to have!

It is so nice to know that we're not alone, isn't it?

[todavia]

just adding another voice to the choir...
my son will be five in august and has generally been a very mellow, sweet, enjoyable kid but lately he has started really testing/challenging boundaries and i'm struggling with how to handle it.
i'm due with #2 later this month and so of course i'm worried that he's acting out his fears/anxiety/anger about the impending baby but i also don't want to project MY fears about that onto him if this is really just normal 4 year old stuff.

issues from the last two days alone -

the bossines:
DS -'get me a juice, mama'
me -'could you say it in a different way?'
DS -'Get it Now!'
that one got handled with a time out and discussion of why it's important to ask for things in a nice way.

the rudeness:
me - 'why don't you tell daddy what you told me this morning?'
DS - 'you tell him, Fat Butt!'
for this, a toy was taken away for the day and we talked about hurting words and why it's not okay to say mean things to people.

plus the competitiveness with his friends, rejections ('i'm not so-and-so's friend'), and general brattiness (lots of "No!'). of course there are still great moments and i love him like crazy but i'm just wondering, is it enough to deal with the behavior? how can i get to whatever's behind it? how much do you think the new baby has to do with it?

[wendyk]

I'm joining too. My older DD takes every ounce or energy I have some days. Other days, she's charming, adorable, conversant- just really enjoyable. Unfortunately, those days are few and far between.

Her screaming is what is making me : She does so several times a day over EVERY. LITTLE.UPSET. And for 10-15 minutes at a time. This morning it was because I wouldn't get out of the bathtub right then to wipe her after she peed. She'd been wiping herself for a year until right before her baby sister was born 3 months ago. She'll do it now if she wants to. She didn't want to this morning so she screamed until I was finished with my bath and did it for her.

She even uses it as a threat to get what she wants. I always tell her what would be a better way to deal with whatever the problem us. She often still chooses to scream if the answer to something is no. I've been trying to stay with her during these tantrums, but they seem to just go on and on with her repeating "momma!!" and her request over and over. I'm finding now, after 9 months of this going on, I'm losing patience with it. I've now started telling her that I've given her my answer, her screaming is hurting my ears and I'm going to go to another room. Sometimes she follows me, sometimes she finds something else to do when there is no audience. Walking away isn't my prefered way of dealing with it, but it's better than yelling at her to stop screaming (which I've unfortunately been guity of doing...: )

[amydawnsmommy]

OMG!

After reading these posts I feel like I really didn't have a real reason for posting in the first place!

I mean Yeah the constant chatter does get on my nerves at times but there are also lots of times when Hope is very patient (like now while I'm posting) and will quietly read, watch movies, etc. She is a good help around the house and unless she is just plain exhausted or in pain does not have major meltdowns!

The clingies have been bugging me a bit but really they aren't a big deal.
And I've been getting better at using my words (you learn from your kids, right?) to express what I need.

Also I realized the reason she is repeating herself sometimes over and over again is because I do that with her when I think she is zoned out and not listening when really she's not responding as fast as I want her to! Now she must think that saying something 2-3 x in a row is normal! Yeah so I'm definitely working on that one!!!

If anything I'm learning more about me and remembering that just because Hope can speak so well and understand lots of things that she doesn't understand everything! Sometimes I forget. I have to remind myself to explain things to her....and when she does the next really weird thing it reminds me to explain to her why we don't do that.

When my girlfriend's son was 4 and she yelled at him a lot it was always about what was appropriate.
Four must be the age when they learn what is and is not appropriate. That's what's happening here.

[cyncyn]

Originally Posted by MamaE

I am also finding 4 challenging. The limit testing is really getting to me and I have no idea how to deal with it. Am I supposed to get stricter or more lenient?? Stricter is what my instincts tell me, but DD is stubborn like her daddy (or is it like her mommy?).

Interested to see what others say.

Me too. Sometimes I want to clamp down and control her (do it NOW because I SAY SO!), but that doesn't seem to work as well as backing off. DH thinks I am too lenient already, but he was raised more strictly than I was.

Sticker chart worked for about a week. Now we talk more about being respectful and loving toward each other.

[Rio Mama]

My sticker chart isn't working anymore, but my husband's is. This reward system seems to focus on one thing: being the first one ready 5 mornings in a row without whining. If he does it, he gets a small prize at the end of the week. If he misses a day, it sets him back 2 days. I don't quite think my son understands the second part of this, but he sure understands the first, and it's been a miracle in terms of getting him out the door in the mornings over the last month.

It's interesting to read your insights on why they repeat their questions over and over and over.

Sometimes he starts asking me "why" when I know he knows the answer, so I'll ask him "why do you think?" He'll say "I don't know", and I'll realize that maybe he wants to talk, but doesn't really have a topic, so I'll start making up silly answers. He laughs, I laugh, the baby laughs. This only works if I'm adequately nourished and not feeling rushed.

The toughest part in all of this is that his baby brother (10mo) is easy as pie, full of smiles and cute baby noises, and I feel guilty about maybe not giving the 4yo as much energy and focus as I did before the baby came.

[amydawnsmommy]

Originally Posted by Rio Mama

Sometimes he starts asking me "why" when I know he knows the answer, so I'll ask him "why do you think?" He'll say "I don't know", and I'll realize that maybe he wants to talk, but doesn't really have a topic, so I'll start making up silly answers. He laughs, I laugh, the baby laughs. This only works if I'm adequately nourished and not feeling rushed.

I find this too!

[mommajb]

I think our behavior issues center on not enough sleep. Our nights are fine, she sleeps 8 pm until about 7:30 am, she gets up when she gets up, no waking by us. By one in the afternoon it is obvious what she needs (sleep or at least quiet time and a break) but she is *so* resistant. My older two gave up naps at about 2 but she cannot maintain a positive outlook without one. She knows the routine (straighten mess in bedroom, read books, cuddle, rest) but refuses to participate. She becomes very whiny, disagreeable, and obviously very unhappy. She will watch a video which keeps her from having outbursts (while it is on) but does not rejuvenate her in any way. When it is over she is still quite the pill (and normally we do not watch tv during the week, this was an attempt by me to work with her).

Any suggestions on helping her to rejuvenate during the day? I have a nice window of opportunity when the older two are out for about an hour and the babe is napping so I can try something that focuses on her.

[ilikethedesert]

Since it looks like she has the opportunity for quiet time during the day- what about more busy time. maybe she needs a good amount of time to run and really tire herself out so she is more willing to rest or nap when the time comes? The other thing that I was thinking is maybe there is something in her diet... too much sugar or another food that she may have a slight allergy to that causes her high activity level.

I haven't read the previous posts so my apologies if I missed something!

[amydawnsmommy]

Originally Posted by mommajb

Any suggestions on helping her to rejuvenate during the day? I have a nice window of opportunity when the older two are out for about an hour and the babe is napping so I can try something that focuses on her.

Well I find Tahitian Noni juice or a Greens+ smoothie always gives Hope and I a boost of energy!

If you wanted to calm her down to see if she would go to sleep you could try some Chamomile Calm extract in some juice or water. Or perhaps some chamomile tea.

[ewe+lamb]

Riomama - I think you handled the whole situation really well, how eloquent of your ds to tell you that he was very angry with you - really it is very good, alot of kids will resort to hitting out, because of frustration - i actually think it was very positive!
We're working through 4 but I can't recommend the book Liberated Parents, Liberated Children highly enough I LOVE IT, it's really helped, followed by, of course, How to Talk So kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids will talk. It has really helped with the bossiness - dd LOVES to tell everyone what to do!! Also it's let me let go, dd knows that she has to leave to go to school by 8.15am - I've shown it on the clock to her, it's up to her to get ready on time and she does it!!! Gets washed, dressed (definitely in her own style ) etc, if she needs help she comes and asks politely and we'll do our best for her, no shouting or demanding - Mummy and Daddy do things when asks nicely with gentle voices. I also have employed, instead of a sticker chart, a 'feeling' chart - How Am I Feeling Today? I have drawn lots of different faces - happy, sad, angry etc (lots taken from the smilies here) and she lets us know how she's feeling through that - it's been great and the faces change through the day. I've also been using alot of craft and art tools to help her through the day, painting at school/kindergarten is very structured and not always how the child is feeling, quite honestly does it matter if they 'go over the line' at school if they do they are told that their drawing/painting is no good, at home we don't have any lines and they can do what they want even if it just scribbles it is something to them - I'm diverting please read the books - they are just wonderful they have helped me SO much, I'd love them to help you too.

[mommajb]

Ilikethedesert - a big thank you! We homeschool and tend to spend our mornings on lessons, piano, and chores so that I too can relax during nap time. I bet she isn't physically tired. I am not sure if this is an Aha! or Duh! moment for me.

Also, we eat a pretty good diet but I am sure it has slipped as dh does more of the cooking while I am preg and she does have food allergies (eggs). They mostly affect her skin so while we are careful we are not vigilant as long as she doesn't complain and we don't see the signs (eczema). Another thing to get back on top of. I feel like a slacker for even having to ask about this.

[Pheline4]

Hi, everyone.

Thanks for your kind understanding, swampangel! I apologized to my ds for yelling and we had a good discussion about our feelings. Someone suggested that it is often helpful to follow 'hurt' with 'gentleness,' so I was happy to get back to my more patient Mama-self over the next couple days.

ds is very willing to talk about his feelings. He says, "I am very angry with you!" Or "I am STILL angry with you!" And he calls names which is now grounds for a timeout.... I'm so glad to know we're not the only ones being called butt. Our ds' current favorite is Baby! or Stupid baby! To which I answered the other day, I love babies! And you know stupid really just means someone who has something to learn and babies do have a lot to learn. You have learned a lot since you were a baby." Who knows if these conversations are helpful or not. With the first child (and he's an only child right now), I'm just winging it half the time. I imagine every child has her or his own personaility anyway.

ds had his first visit to kindergarten last Thursday and on the way there he told us, "I am going to be shy at first." My dp said, "Okay. You can be shy but don't be shy for too long because the visit is going to be very short." LOL. We got there and when it was time to separate he jumped in line and didn't look back.... So there you go. Just when I'm all revved up for the struggle, he moves on.

Sticker Chart: We are using the sticker chart and it is helping. He gets a sticker if he makes his bed or gets dressed by himself. Then, periodically, we'll give him a toy or treat for the stickers. I was worried that he would always be looking for the reward but my therapist reassured me that he will associate the deeds with his self-esteem and that as he gets older we can adjust the expectations.

His preschool has implemented a similar sticker chart and they ask the children if they cooperated or not. So it helps him to be honest as well, whether he gets the sticker or not. Also, it helps ME be more consistent. I didn't grow up with much consistency so it is a hard trait to maintain and pass on.

We just did our first 'reward' after two weeks of sticker collecting (he had 8). We have a fairly wholesome household (and I have eating issues) so we don't keep many sweets in the house so this week's treat was some gummy bears from the ice cream shop. His choice. Next time we'll go to the toy store and he can pick out an inexpensive toy. (Then he can learn about money! )

For me the key is patience. Happy Day-After Mother's Day everyone!

Peace!


(Thanks to amydawnsmommy for the short form explanation!)

[captain optimism]

I must admit, I have the easiest child in the known universe.
Also, a lot of typical four year old behaviors don't phase me.

Which is very lucky, because I apparently have the quintessential four year old! Yes, he melts down if he gets too tired, in a new and spectacular way. He doesn't really want to do things that are really bad, BUT--he will SPIT to annoy me. (Which I think is funny and I can't laugh! Argh!) Pee accidents--yes, oy. Interrupting conversations--yes. On a few occasions he's acted like it's physically hurting him that I am paying attention to his father and not to him!

I do sometimes feel harassed when he doesn't want us to go to the bathroom without him.

I think the reasons I can cope are:

1. I'm WOHM during the week
2. His play has gotten so creative and amazing that it's compensation for whatever concommittant annoyances go with this age
3. Another feature of this age is being super loving, and that's so nice
4. The artwork! The singing! The little jokes! The peppy bouncy happy moods!
5. He can socialize with other children
6. Bandaids still work.