Which is the better environmental choice?

[oceanbaby]

We use paper grocery bags as our garbage bags - one for garbage, one for recycling, and one for compost. We just bring it down and throw it in our big trash bins when it gets full.

However, I have some cloth grocery bags and feel guilty not using them. But if we stopped getting the paper bags, we wouldn't have anything to put our garbage in, and I guess would have to get plastic garbage bags.

So, what is the better choice?

[Leylla]

Personally? I would say get the paper bags...just from a frugal standpoint. Not to mention from what I understand about landfill and such, it's the platic bags that keep items from degrading properly, so you wouldn't have this with paper bags.

However one can make trashbags out of newpaper, if one is bored enough and likes to re package the trash twice before getting from the trashcan to the door

Steph

[KKmama]

Here's what we do. We have a paper sack for our garbage which we have be reusing for oh, probably at least a year. We have no wet garbage (and very little garbage period). The compost goes into a big old plastic bowl with a lid, which we take out and dump in the compost bin when it's full. The bowl gets washed periodically. Paper recycling goes into a paper bag which we have been reusing for months and months and months. Mixed containers go in a bucket which periodically gets dumped in the bin outside.

We have cloth bags which we take to the store. Once in a blue moon (probably less than once every 6 mos.), I forget the bags, which is why we have a few paper bags rattling around.

FYI... decomposition just does not happen in landfills. So it really doesn't matter what you throw in there--paper or plastic. Best to avoid the landfill in the first place.

[nina_yyc]

There are such things as 'biodegradable' garbage bags...corn plastic or something...but I'm assuming that if things don't decompose, they don't biodegrade either. Maybe someone else knows more on the subject.

[Leylla]

And I apologize to OP for the incorrect information. Sorry.

So why don't things decompose in landfills? Does it just take much longer or do they never decomp? Just wondering...

Steph

[MelanieMC]

Originally Posted by KKmama

Here's what we do. We have a paper sack for our garbage which we have be reusing for oh, probably at least a year. We have no wet garbage (and very little garbage period). The compost goes into a big old plastic bowl with a lid, which we take out and dump in the compost bin when it's full. The bowl gets washed periodically. Paper recycling goes into a paper bag which we have been reusing for months and months and months. Mixed containers go in a bucket which periodically gets dumped in the bin outside.

We have cloth bags which we take to the store. Once in a blue moon (probably less than once every 6 mos.), I forget the bags, which is why we have a few paper bags rattling around.

FYI... decomposition just does not happen in landfills. So it really doesn't matter what you throw in there--paper or plastic. Best to avoid the landfill in the first place.

That sounds like a good idea to me. I also have very little "wet" garbage, so it's ok to reuse a bag over and over. When I buy garbage bags, I get these from Seventh Generation. They're made up of mostly recycled plastic.

[melissa17s]

We have composting plastic bags from our local hardware store. They are made from vegetable sources and will break down just like the Newman's salad bags. Your local hfs will probably have them, too.

I try to always use my reusable bags at the store, but inevitably, I sometimes forget or need more bags than I brought. In those situations, I get extra paper bags. I have not had a shortage even though I try not to bring them home.

[KKmama]

Originally Posted by nina_yyc

There are such things as 'biodegradable' garbage bags...corn plastic or something...but I'm assuming that if things don't decompose, they don't biodegrade either. Maybe someone else knows more on the subject.

biodegrade = decompose They mean the same thing.

Originally Posted by Leylla

And I apologize to OP for the incorrect information. Sorry.

So why don't things decompose in landfills? Does it just take much longer or do they never decomp? Just wondering...

Steph

Several years ago, Dr. William Rathje, an archeologist, did a big study on landfills. It's good info for lay people. Check here for a blurb, you can also google him. He showed that stuff just doesn't break down in landfills. For things to break down, water and oxygen are needed. Oxygen in in a landfill is depleted (ie, gone) within a few feet of the surface. And water percolates down; stuff along the way doesn't stay wet. Rathje went down through dumps just like an archeological dig and found things perfectly intact and identifiable all the way down.

So... biodegradeable bags aren't going to break down in landfills, either, sorry to inform you. They *will* decompose in compost bins (residential or industrial-sized) because things are set up so that there is enough oxygen and water.

[oceanbaby]

So basically it doesn't matter if I use plastic or paper for a garbage bag?

[snozzberry]

I personally prefer paper to plastic because paper production seems less yucky to me than plastic production, since plastic is petroleum-based.

[KKmama]

Originally Posted by snozzberry

I personally prefer paper to plastic because paper production seems less yucky to me than plastic production, since plastic is petroleum-based.

Logging is pretty darned destructive, and it destroys wildlife habitat. An awful lot of paper bags come from virgin pulp (ie, not from recycled paper). Some would argue that paper production is just as bad, if not worse, than plastic production in terms of its environmental impact (all the chemicals used, the waste products, the energy used).

Originally Posted by oceanbaby

So basically it doesn't matter if I use plastic or paper for a garbage bag?

No, I guess my hidden point is that you should try to minimize your use of either. Get a sturdy plastic trash container, use it without a liner. Or reuse the liner many, many times. Use cloth bags at the grocery store. :

[MommyErin]

From the Horse's Mouth

Well, Mommas, it just so happens that my father is heavily involved with and gainfully employed in the Municipal Solid Waste Industry (and, no, he's not a mafioso!). So I did what any curious reader of this thread would do -- I called him and got the scoop.

First off, both the statements "nothing breaks down in a landfill" and "everything breaks down in a landfill" are both false. How much garbage can break down in a landfill is determined by the geology of the landfill, the construction of the landfill, and the compaction rate of the landfill. The greater the compaction and the more water-tight the landfill is, the less decomposition you will have. So if you really want to know about your trash, contact your local landfill administrator and ask him/her.

Dad also said that in order to promote carbon sequestration (offsetting the bad with the good), you'd be better off choosing paper bags over plastic since young trees absorb CO2 at a much faster rate than more mature trees. So it would be better, if you need a bag at all, to take one of paper than of plastic, the production of which is not nearly as environmentally friendly overall.

So, in short, don't use a bag unless you must. If you do, use a paper one. And in the meantime, do everything you can to reduce what you send to the landfill.

So I'm off to hang my head in shame over the plastic garbage bags we use at my house. Does it help that I buy the Seventh Generation ones?

[snozzberry]

Originally Posted by KKmama

Logging is pretty darned destructive, and it destroys wildlife habitat. An awful lot of paper bags come from virgin pulp (ie, not from recycled paper). Some would argue that paper production is just as bad, if not worse, than plastic production in terms of its environmental impact (all the chemicals used, the waste products, the energy used).

I definitely understand all that. But if I need a bag, it makes me feel better to avoid using a petroleum-based product, personally.

Originally Posted by MommyErin

Well, Mommas, it just so happens that my father is heavily involved with and gainfully employed in the Municipal Solid Waste Industry (and, no, he's not a mafioso!). So I did what any curious reader of this thread would do -- I called him and got the scoop.

First off, both the statements "nothing breaks down in a landfill" and "everything breaks down in a landfill" are both false. How much garbage can break down in a landfill is determined by the geology of the landfill, the construction of the landfill, and the compaction rate of the landfill. The greater the compaction and the more water-tight the landfill is, the less decomposition you will have. So if you really want to know about your trash, contact your local landfill administrator and ask him/her.

Dad also said that in order to promote carbon sequestration (offsetting the bad with the good), you'd be better off choosing paper bags over plastic since young trees absorb CO2 at a much faster rate than more mature trees. So it would be better, if you need a bag at all, to take one of paper than of plastic, the production of which is not nearly as environmentally friendly overall.

So, in short, don't use a bag unless you must. If you do, use a paper one. And in the meantime, do everything you can to reduce what you send to the landfill.

So I'm off to hang my head in shame over the plastic garbage bags we use at my house. Does it help that I buy the Seventh Generation ones?

Wow, very interesting! Thanks for sharing all that.

btw, I've been wanting to read Garbage Land: On the Secret Trail of Trash. Have any of you read it?

[Traci mom23boys]

I just went through this same decision making process. I used to use paper bags from the grocery for my trash. I have chickens and compost for most of my wet trash. I just finally used my last paper bag from my stash and have decided to only use my own bags for all my shopping. I bought a cute little red metal trashcan with a lid from Cost Plus that we rinse out after we dump it in the outside garbage can. So far it is working just fine and I feel much better about using my own bags when I shop. By the way if you have Trader's Joes near you they have sturdy reusable bags for .99 cents. I bought a few to add to my old canvas bag collection so I have enough even if I forget to put them back in the car after a grocery trip.


Blessings,

[srain]

Originally Posted by snozzberry

I definitely understand all that. But if I need a bag, it makes me feel better to avoid using a petroleum-based product, personally.

I've read a couple studies which showed that paper bag production actually used more petroleum (in logging, production, heavier shipping, etc.) than plastic bags. I'm torn myself- I try not to get any disposable bags, but occasionally I'll forget my bags or not have enough.

As for using bags to dispose of garbage- we just don't use any. Messy trash all goes to the composter, and trash/ recycling goes into cans we haul to the dump.

[p.s]

Originally Posted by Leylla

However one can make trashbags out of newpaper, if one is bored enough and likes to re package the trash twice before getting from the trashcan to the door

, sounds like a perfect chore for a preschooler.

[lightheart]

what about using reusable bags for your groceries for the most part and reusable something, bags or bins for your recycables and only get enough paper bags to handle your trash?

[TinyFrog]

I use reusable bags for shopping. For compost, I recycle bread bags. But I just realized that once I dump the compost, I throw the bag in the trash. I need to rinse it and recycle/reuse it instead. I use plastic bags for trash, will have to reconsider that. I'm not sure about dumping trash straight into the large garbage can that goes to the curb. I think we're actually supposed to have everything bagged so it can't end up all over. I'll consider the Seventh Generation ones though if we do keep using bags for that.

[snozzberry]

Originally Posted by wateraddict

I'm not sure about dumping trash straight into the large garbage can that goes to the curb. I think we're actually supposed to have everything bagged so it can't end up all over. I'll consider the Seventh Generation ones though if we do keep using bags for that.

We're not allowed to dump trash straight in our curbside trash can either.

[mrsalf97]

Our trash has to be in a bag also.