Am I alone?? (Some religious thoughts included) - Page 3

[rootzdawta]

Originally Posted by theretohere

I'm not the OP, but we also teach our DD that Christians only go to heaven. We believe in the whole Bible, and Jesus pretty clearly says that he is the only way to the Father.
I think it would be more confusing to only teach her the comfortable parts of Scripture, KWIM?

This is pretty much why I parted ways with Christianity. I remember as a young child feel excruciating anguish at the fact that my Muslim friends would not be going to heaven. It caused me to be much of a recluse because I could not imagine being close to someone here and then watching them burn in hell. When I left Christianity, my family asked me "When did you become such an extrovert?" That's how much of an impact the church's teaching had on me.

I think when I came to the conclusion thatthe Creator values all It's creation, is when I went vegan is when I realized that there is a place for all creation after they pass through this physical form of existence. I'm not sure whether it's reincarnation or a "heaven" but energy is never wasted and energy was expended in creating every living thing. That energy must be transformed somehow.

I remember also as a little girl, my parents listened exclusively to Family Radio and there was a guy on there called Harold Camping. He told a little girl that called in on his radio show that her puppy that just died was not in heaven--that dogs don't go to heaven when they day, they just decay. The little girl was already crying when she called. She was bawling by the time she got off. I felt that was so wrong . . . and I was only 8.

I don't think parents should willfully lie to their children. However, we all believe different things and what may be a lie to someone may be a hard held truth to another.

[Tracy]

Originally Posted by Earthly_Joys

I'm not sure if this is even the right forum to express this but I think I'll take the chance...

Am I alone in this? Am I the only mother out there that does not "lie" to her child? I'm talking about santa, the tooth fairy, easter bunny, and puppy heaven. Almost everyone I come across thinks I'm nuts. We are religious and that makes a difference in how we handle these events BUT so many people think we take them to the extreme. We don't do halloween at all. We don't put anyone down who does it but we don't do it. We do Christmas but we don't do santa. Angelica knows where the santa story comes from and how it all got started. She has the reindeer and snowman movies. We color pictures of gifts, santa, and his helpers. But she knows the truth about santa. Same with the Easter bunny and the tooth fairy. The other night at a big family dinner my daughter asked where Spaz (my sister's hamster) was. My mom and sisters response was, "Spaz died and he went to animal heaven." That was when I started to choke on my avocado salad...I said something along the lines of..."It's nice to think about sweet places like animal heaven but they don't exist. It was fun to have Spaz here with us but when animals die they don't go to heaven. Only people who have accepted the Lord into...." you see where I'm going with this...Angelica took it very well and went about her business. While the adults picked their jaws up off the floor. I retold this story to my closest friend and her response was, "You need to let the girl live a little. Don't suck all of her childhood away. Just back off." Um...is that what I'm doing?? Is making the world out to be a place filled with cotton candy clouds the way to go? I personally believe that my child has the ability to accept a lot of deep information as long as it is presented to her in a way that she can understand. Am I alone? Are there no other parents out there who parent in similar ways? Jeez, It's not like I broke her crayons and told her to get a job...She still has a childhood! Just curious...Thanks!

Elizabeth

how old is your daughter?

I don't think that has been asked on the previous pages. If I missed it, I apologize.

[2tadpoles]

My parents didn't do Santa, the Easter Bunny, etc. They didn't want to lie to me. As I got older, I thought it was lame.

Personally, I see a huge difference between lying and pretending, and we've included all those mythical characters in our kids' lives. No trauma here, but I guess it depends on how you handle it.

Of course, we don't believe in gods, either, so my kids have always been exposed to discussions involving mythology, symbolism, religion and skepticism.

As for pet heaven, neither their dad nor I believe in an afterlife for anyone, so it's a non-issue here. When a pet has died, we just talk about how its energy has returned to the universe from which it came. Same for people.

[klg47]

My religion believes that most people go to heaven. We do believe in degrees of glory in heaven, so that will have to be explained at some time. But we believe that everyone will be happy in the degree they end up in. We do believe in 'outer darkness', which would correspond to hell, but it is reserved for a very few people.

[UnschoolnMa]

Originally Posted by klg47

I can prove without a shadow of a doubt that the presents from Santa that show up under Christmas trees did not come from a man who flies around the earth on a sleigh pulled by reindeer......... It's a fact that parents put the presents under the tree; not Santa. Therefore, telling the kids that a man in a sled comes into the house and puts the presents under the tree is a lie.

I agree. The presents were not dropped off by Santa or Father Christmas, they were placed there by me, Dh, etc. If I baked a cake and then told the kids "A cake fairy baked this for you and left it on the counter while you were asleep" that would be dishonest too.

[zinemama]

Originally Posted by theretohere

Well, I've never met you or your children, but if we did and she asked I'd tell her that hopefully you come to the Christian faith. She's not old enough yet to have grasped that only way to heaven= others go to hell, but we'll explain it as such when she does grasp that.

Thanks for responding. I guess I'm still looking for more of a complex world-view on raising your kids this way. I mean, at some point your dd is going to realize that there are millions of people out there who have no intention of becoming Christians. What is your perspective as a family on these people?

Would you let your kid play with my kids (seeing as how they're bound for the brimstone and all)? Or would you encourage your kid to proselytize (sp!) to mine? Would your position be that God still loves my kids (although not as much as yours?) Will your dd be expected to have compassion for non-Christians who suffer tsunamis and wars in their countries, or are these people simply written off? How does raising kids like this work? I can't really imagine it.

[captain crunchy]

I just have to pipe in as a Christian and let people know (in case any of you were shaking your heads thinking *wow*) that I don't believe only Christians go to *heaven* -- I don't teach my daughter that Christianity is the only *truth* and I don't pray for other people's souls -- none of my business the souls of other people quite honestly unless someone asks me specifically to keep them in my prayers --

I dunno I just felt the need to say that --

I also need to say too that our current president claims to be a Bible believing Christian and yet um, he sort of sailed by that whole *thou shalt not kill* thing when he delcared war so I quite honestly tend not to align myself with Christians of that flair...

...but I am still a Christian ...who still doesn't tell my dd that santa is real... and won't be telling her that non-christians go to hell...

[anotherKatrina]

:

If I thought I had to believe that only Christians go to heaven, then I wouldn't be able to be one.

[pfamilygal]

Originally Posted by zinemama

Thanks for responding. I guess I'm still looking for more of a complex world-view on raising your kids this way. I mean, at some point your dd is going to realize that there are millions of people out there who have no intention of becoming Christians. What is your perspective as a family on these people?

Would you let your kid play with my kids (seeing as how they're bound for the brimstone and all)? Or would you encourage your kid to proselytize (sp!) to mine? Would your position be that God still loves my kids (although not as much as yours?) Will your dd be expected to have compassion for non-Christians who suffer tsunamis and wars in their countries, or are these people simply written off? How does raising kids like this work? I can't really imagine it.

I believe the Bible and Jesus said "No man comes to the Father except by me." So for us, that is pretty self-explanitory.

Our children are taught that God loves all people the same. And His gift of eternal life and fellowship with Him is offered to all people. Whether they choose to accept that is up to them.

My kids talk to everyone about Jesus. They like Him.

[pfamilygal]

Originally Posted by zinemama

Will your dd be expected to have compassion for non-Christians who suffer tsunamis and wars in their countries, or are these people simply written off? How does raising kids like this work? I can't really imagine it.

The first thing my son did when he heard about the tsunami in 2005 was go to his room and gather up toys to send to the kids who had lost all of theirs. We prayed for the survivors and MANY of the aid organizations who came in to help were Christian. I find it strange that you assume that Christians just "write people off". Have you heard of World Vision, Compassion, Samaritan's Purse, etc?

[captain crunchy]

I heart Jesus ... I already mentioned I am a Christian but I don't talk to people about Jesus unless they ask or unless it directly relates to something I am saying in the moment -- because in my understanding of the Bible, Jesus only really preached to people who sought out those words -- so it wouldn't make sense to me personally to go around talking to everyone about Jesus especially if they didn't want to hear it -- doesn't make me like Him any less

[peachpie]

We have also chosen not to emphasize Santa, the Easter Bunny, etc. We do read holiday books with Santa as a character and dd seems to accept them as stories. A couple times around Christmas she mentioned Santa bringing presents because she heard it at preschool. But when the holiday actually came around she knew that her presents were from us (well mostly, from Grandma!) Her grandparents come to stay every Christmas and she loves to help Grandma wrap everyone else's gifts and arrange them under the tree. So the presents don't suddenly appear on Christmas morning but there is still plenty of magic in picking out the gifts, keeping special secrets, wrapping, arranging, watching others add to the pile in the days before, trying to read the tags to guess which ones are for her....

[zinemama]

Originally Posted by pfamilygal

I find it strange that you assume that Christians just "write people off". Have you heard of World Vision, Compassion, Samaritan's Purse, etc?

Oh, I don't believe that all Christians write people off, at all!

I know that many Christians don't teach their children that non-Christians (like me and my kids) are going to hell. (Thanks for clarifying that, Cpt. Crunchy). I was directing my question specifically to the poster who stated that she *does* believe - and teaches her children - that those who don't "accept Jesus" are going to hell. I was just wondering how a belief that whole segments of God's creation are already doomed translates into a worldview compatible with compassion. I think it's great that you teach your kids that God loves everyone the same.

[Aradia Paganus]

Originally Posted by Ravin

Seeing as I'm a Heathen, I actually consider mythical and folk figures such as Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy to be quite as real and legitimate as the Gods, House-wights, land-spirits, etc...
Of course, many of the things you believe in as a Christian I don't and will not teach my child to believe in them, either. Like eternal damnation, original sin, or that animals have no souls.
Neither of us is lying to our kids. We are both passing on our religious/spiritual beliefs and traditions in the way we see fit. Which is as it should be.

Thank You!
I was starting to wonder if I should even start typing. When we discuss 'not lying' to our children we should take into account what we consider lying. Telling our children that A exists and B,C and D do not exist as a matter of fact simply because we believe this or that could be considered stretching the truth.

Here is an example: a strict atheist decides they will not 'lie' to their child by telling them that heaven exists. Heaven for them is a lie, a non-truth. Of course, many many people in nearly all religious traditions believe that there is life after physical death (whatever that maybe). For them, heaven is real. They haven't been there, haven't seen it, can't touch it-- but they 'know' it’s real.

Now, a Christian parent decides they will not 'lie' to their children and tell them there are no such things as fairies, for example. But many native- European traditions believe very strongly that fairies do exist. Not many people have seen them, can't really touch them, etc. But they 'know' they're real.

What I am getting at-- is that if we are going to make a point to be truly honest with our children we need to be honest with ourselves. A Christian parent can explain to a 7-8 yo (in terms of child development that is a good age to distinguish between reality and fantasy) that their religion began in the Middle East and Northern Africa. The bible was written by many people over thousands of years and was collected into the book we call the Bible. Of course, it is important to explain what you believe about the history, the meaning etc. But to be completely honest with your child they need to understand that different people believe in different things—not that a group of people lie to each other about A or B. How judgmental is it for one parent to say, “Those people believe that there are such things as D, but it’s a lie, and I won’t lie to you. Now, this man can walk on water, which is the truth.”

All religions are part mythology, part faith, part practice. Regardless of what religion or spirituality we believe in, we should-- in the spirit of honesty to our children-- let them know that even our own beliefs are considered mythology to others, but that for us they feel true (and this would be a wonderful opportunity to explain why you feel the way you do about your religious beliefs.)

When it comes to spiritual and religious beliefs we should be careful when using words like ‘lie’. That will only set a child up for a life of judging other people’s beliefs, and says a lot about how we as adults are judgmental of different beliefs.

*okay I am stepping off the soap box!*

[green betty]

We don't do the whole Santa/Easter Bunny/Tooth Fairy thing here, either. We have lots of fun imaginary characters at our house--we don't need ones other people picked for us! Especially ones entertwined with overconsumption in our culture. We do talk about them with a wink and a nod, but it would feel ick to us to pretend like we actually believe in them.

My big problem is that we live in the kind of community where everyone and his uncle feels free to run up to dc at the post office or the grocery store and say, "Is the Easter bunny coming to visit you?" or "Have you been a good boy? Is Santa bringing you lots of presents?" I have a hard time coming up with responses that both honor their intent to be friendly and connect with us AND are in keeping with our values. So far I just laugh and say, "When Santa stays up until 2 am doing the invoicing, he can bring the presents! It's all me until then."

[*Devon*]

Well, it looks like this is turning into quite a religious discussion, and here I am all ready to say more about Santa!

(Can I also just say that this probably isn't the place to start discussing/questioning others' beliefs? : )

Originally Posted by philomom

No, we don't do the childhood lie stuff here.

All that was put on me as a kid and I was severely traumatized by the lying once I figured it out. I mean, the major cool events of kid's life revolve around santa, the tooth fairy and the easter bunny. If my parents had lied about all that, what else had they lied about? I never trusted my parents again and left their religion as soon as I was able.

See, this is what I'm talking about. When my mom "broke the news" to me, it wasn't in such a way that "I was lying to you all these years. This great guy that you absolutely love is a complete fabrication and he has never, nor will ever bring you gifts."

It was more, "Santa is not, in fact, a real person, but more of a Spirit" and we are Christians, and I never felt it didn't fit in with our beliefs. (I have complete respect for ALL religions and am quite a pantheist myself, now)

I really like what one of the pp's said about the childhood phase needing to be very concrete, and I don't think it has to be "all or nothing". That's why I still Believe!! Geez, didn't you people ever see Miracle on 34th Street?

Those of you who don't "do Santa" -- do you incorporate the idea of the Christmas Spirit at all, or is it just very literal -- Mom and Dad buy presents and give them to you and that's it. ?

[Aradia Paganus]

More thoughts....

It is very interesting that an entire society will tell its children a fabrication of-- what they believe to the-- truth it order to sell things? or spread culture? or what?

So much time and effort in put into this cultural mythology... I accidentally flipped on the network news on Christmas Eve and they have a very dramatic computer animated 'breaking news' bulliten about the army having spotted Santa Claus over Germany... they even had a quick sound-bite with a military officer about having used sophisticated tracking equipment to find Santa.

Oy Vey.

[captain crunchy]

Those of you who don't "do Santa" -- do you incorporate the idea of the Christmas Spirit at all, or is it just very literal -- Mom and Dad buy presents and give them to you and that's it. ?

We do the whole *spirit of giving* stuff -- well, dd is not yet two so she doesn't really get anything about it yet -- but she will always know there is no guy who comes down the chimney we don't have to leave presents if she is "good enough" --

I am not just going to sit her down and be like "santa is NOT REAL -- get it through your thick childish skull!!!" (we don't talk like that to her!!) -- but she will always just know because he is pretend, we say "oh santa is pretend" just casually -- she still has fun just like she had a blast today climbing up on a little stool saying she was pretending she was on an elevator -- she knew she wasn't on an elevator -- well at least not an elevator she knows is an elevator -- but she had a complete blast -- now I didn't follow her around all day reminding her it wasn't an elevator and that she was pretending that is just creepy.. and I won't do that with santa... but it will just be a thing she knows...

For me it is not a religious thing at all, it is an honesty issue... so m any parents I have known SAY they are doing it for the whole *magic of the season* excuse, but what I have observed it is just a way to control thier kids' behavior from about september on and not be the bad guy "santa won't leave you anything if you are not good" --- and also, as a pp mentioned, as a marketing ploy by companies to sell more crap

[pfamilygal]

Originally Posted by *Devon*

Those of you who don't "do Santa" -- do you incorporate the idea of the Christmas Spirit at all, or is it just very literal -- Mom and Dad buy presents and give them to you and that's it. ?

We give our children gifts. They are from us. And as a family we do things to bless others during the Christmas season. But, our gift giving is framed by the idea that God gives us the best gift - Jesus. And we aim to make giving the byword instead of the crass materialism that is pushed down their throats by our consumer culture (anyone else hate the Toys R Us ads where the mom reads the catalog to the kids? - yeah, my kids need to be encouraged to covet).

[pfamilygal]

Originally Posted by zinemama

Oh, I don't believe that all Christians write people off, at all!

I know that many Christians don't teach their children that non-Christians (like me and my kids) are going to hell. (Thanks for clarifying that, Cpt. Crunchy). I was directing my question specifically to the poster who stated that she *does* believe - and teaches her children - that those who don't "accept Jesus" are going to hell. I was just wondering how a belief that whole segments of God's creation are already doomed translates into a worldview compatible with compassion. I think it's great that you teach your kids that God loves everyone the same.

Actually, we teach them that God loves everyone. But that we are all destined for hell unless we choose the gift He offers. But it has nothing to do with us, it has to do with His free gift of grace.