Natural consequence for not picking up?

[Wackadoo]

Occasionally, ok often, my 2 year old will flat out refuse to pick up something she's dropped or thrown on the floor after being requested to do so respectfully, but non-negotiably. And I'm talking about after she's intentionally dumped a container of Peanut Butter Bumpers all over the floor, for example. She just sort of laughs and runs away. Or else she'll start picking them up and then start tossing them around again. I've read in another thread about using positive motivators in instances like this. But I haven't been able to find any of those either! I hate capitulating and picking stuff up myself, but I also hate leaving stuff all over the floor.

So, anyone know of any effective consequences or motivators?

TIA!

[mamaduck]

For us, sometimes things will stay on the floor for longer than I would like. But then eventually, some situation will arise to lend me help. For instance, ds will decide he wants to paint -- and I'll say, "Okay! Great idea! As soon as the silverware is picked up off the floor, we can get out the paints!" And he races to do it. Or he'll want to go outside, or watch a video, or nurse, or whatever -- and I'll say, "We'll do that, just as soon as you pick up!"

A couple other things -- I always lend help if he wants it. So I might say, "Do you want to pick that up by your big boy self? Or do you want mommy to help you with it? Should we do it together?"

Also -- when possible, games are helpful, "You clean up over there and I'll clean up over here, and we'll see who is done the fastest!" Or "I'll pick up all the green blocks and you pick up all the blue blocks. Ready, set, go!"

[shelbean91]

I'm not sure how good this is, but a couple of times dd has refused to pick up things she's dropped, I tell her I'm taking it away for the rest of the day (or for an hour, or however long). I give it to her later and the next time she doesn't want to pick something up, I remind her what happened last time. I've only had to take things away 2-3 times.

[Embee]

Oh, that intentional throwing can be such a frustration! *sigh*

I imagine I would abandon trying to get her to pick up the items all on her own. No matter how positive you can be, to a toddler, picking up an entire bowl of Bumpers seems a HUGE job. I would make it more of a race/game and help out (showing her how easy and fun it can be to clean up as well as throw things). I'd refrain from any frustrated reaction on your part (your reaction is often the *fun part* for the toddler) and just matter of factly say (while picking up the bowl): "Let's see how fast we can pick these up and put them back in the bowl! It's a race!" I usually get my DS (2 1/2) to help out this way but if he only picks up a couple, I don't sweat it--he DID participate in the clean up.

DS doesn't intentionally throw things very often (well, not anymore). I stopped reacting in an emotional way about the matter and he lost interest. I also, for a time, stopped giving more than a few of anything at a time. Slowly, over time, I began to give him "whole bowls" (his words ) of things again as he seemed able to handle it. When only had a few of something, he seemed much more interested in hanging on to it... if he wanted more I'd just say, "when you've eaten what you have there, you may certainly have more."

Best of luck!

[Elphaba]

oh god, i just found myself in a power struggle involving this issue tonight.
she's 20 months, and her new thing is throwing her food all over the floor. tonight it was grapes. i said "please put those in the trash" she laughed in my face and went to do 85 other things each time i asked. i know she is capable of taking things to the trash and she normally delights in it. i have no farking clue what the deal was tonight. i ended up throwing them away by myself.
sometimes i don't know if i have unreasonable expectations or if i am just a crappy mother or she's just willful and too smart for me. i just REALLY wanted her to pick up the grapes and she was flat out not going to do it. i almost lost my composure but i realized how idiotic i was being getting worked up over grapes, so....

mamaduck, could we come live next door to you? i need a role model IRL.

[mamaduck]

confession: nobody here ever picks food up off the floor. Thats what we have a dog for. And honestly, the kids have gotten so incredibly good at defending their food from the dog -- they rarely want to give it to him intentionally!

And I'm no role model. In fact, just today -- I was loosing my mind at the shoe store because ds decided he was going to crawl slowly through the store instead of walking... Grrrr! What the heck was going through his head???!!!

[Elphaba]

i agree, the dog's job is to eat food off the floor. but she won't eat grapes. hence, my annoyance. i ignore the bread, and cereal and pasta, and liquids, because the dog is on the scene ASAP, but she won't touch fruit. :

you're my cyber role model, you always give such well-thought-out responses to people. you and heartmama are the gentle-discipline gurus, in my mind anyway. i feel like mommie dearest this week.

[Wackadoo]

Thank ya, thank ya, mommas. I forgot all about the make-it-a-game trick. I'll definitely give that one a whirl next time! And, Oy! what is it with toddlers and throwing food? I'm soooo with you Elphaba! DH still gets really pissed and I continually try to remind him to keep things in perspective, but, Oy! it's so annoying! I keep thinking this phase will pass..... surely she won't turn out like John Belushi's character in Animal House, right? And I don't know about you all, but I think my *least* favorite has got to be partially chewed banana

[alexa07]

Well now I think that I am the mean strict mama on these boards. I can tell you what I would do with an older child (pick up the stuff myself after asking a few times, and then make it clear that "I asked you to pick up the toys and you did not. I had to. I do not like that at all.")

However, I think that while it is good to ask a two year old to pick up their toys , you can't really fully expect them to do it. Two is still really little. If they don't do it after being asked a "Come on honey help mama pick these up" as you do it and a "Next time I want you to help mama" is sufficient in my book if they don't do it.

[IfMamaAintHappy]

At what point do you stop picking up the peanut butter bumpers and the grapes, and how do you get them to do it without a power struggle? if you have a power struggle, how do you resolve it?

Had a huge discussion on another board about this yesterday, and while I was told to just pick up the thing that was dropped for the fifteenth time that day while my child looked at me as if to say "i KNOW you want me to do it, but I dont want to and you'll do it anyway so HA!".... what sorts of gentle and positive ways can you think of to get that desired result?

Just brainstorming here.

[Liz]

They are pushing buttons to see what happens. When we get "annoyed" (I don't know about you but sometimes I get more than annoyed) they think, "Wow, look what I did?!" When we do not get annoyed they get no "reward" for the misbehaviour. It feels like you are letting them get away with something but actually you are with holding something they want.

This from the "annoyed" mother who forceably cut her son's toenails this morning.

[Mallory]

Another thing that works for us sometimes it to trade.

"You would like me to pick them up instead? Well I have to empty the silverware from the dishwaser and put the towels away. Would you like to do one of those and we'll trade?"

And I try to pick things that are about as long, really I have to empty the whole dishwasher, and things that they really can do-if the towels get sloppily folded and mostly shoved in the closet its okay, I don't mind wrinkled towels (But I wouldn't trade for putting my shirts away). I find that they often try to do a very good job during these trades, much more so then when I just aske them to empty the silverware.


Or if they ask nicely for me to help sometimes I just do it. There are sure times that I appreciate their prompt help when I ask them a favorite (could you get me a drink while brother nurses, will you go find my book in the bedroom). We like to help each other in our family.

[heartmama]

wow elphaba, that was like, waaaaaaaaay generous. Okay mamaduck deserves it, but I think I've been so lame here lately. I guess moving does that.

Anyway, I would be upset over a box of cereal dumped on the floor too. Not screaming or raving, but probably talking fast and flustered. I really get weird about big spills, I am tired just looking at it all there on the floor.

I think prevention is key. At two you can basically count on this kind of stuff. So just don't give them a bowl of anything. Get really small cups and put a few pieces in at a time. Small cups look full when they aren't. If they want a "Full bowl" put in like two more pieces and then change the subject. Feed yourself from a little bowl to be really convincing .

If I were really frustrated and my toddler dumped stuff on purpose, I might call them on it. "Oh good, I get to eat what I pick up. It's all just for me. " and just start eating while I picked it up real fast. I would totally ignore ds, and appear totally thrilled. With ds, he could not resist those kinds of motivators.

Even at 7, if he refused to run errands and I said "Oh good, I love staying home. Lets always stay home" and started reading magazines and ignoring him, he would beg to run the errands. I know he knows that I am only half serious, but it doesn't matter. The result is he stops being contrary and laughs and begs to go out. I sometimes carry on a bit longer, doing a parody of him, saying 'No thanks, I want to play Gameboy. Where did I put it? I have a few dozen games to try. Call me when it's dark out and time for bed, okay?". I tell him where the car keys are and offer him the shopping list. He goes nuts begging me to cut it out and run my errands with him. I am hopeless, aren't I?

I don't usually do this, really I don't.

But it does seem to be an innate part of human behaviour, that we get some satisfaction out of being contrary occasionally. And we stop it the minute we are taken seriously.

I totally do this sometimes to dh. I know we all do.

If I thought my toddler was genuinely experimenting, I'd ask for help picking up. But they would give it if that was their motive, so it wouldn't be an issue.

Its the "contrary on purpose just 'cause" behavior that has made me want to respond with "Oh good, Cereal on the floor. Please don't touch that, I want it all for myself thank you". Because I know ds would not be able to ignore it.

Probably it is best to be totally neutral, state your interest that they help, and pick it up yourself until they outgrow that stage.

But if you just can't stand to be saddled with a floor of cereal one more time by a hit and run cereal-dumper-who-is-watching-to-see-how-you-react, I would react like this if it helped me keep my cool (which it would).

[yogamama]

This doesn't exactly apply for a two year old, but for my three and a half year old I have a rule "We don't make extra work for other people". If he takes the cushions off the sofa or dumps Lincoln Logs he has the pick them up (ha!) or ask nicely for help or the toy gets "put away" for a few weeks. I haven't figured out what to do about the sofa cushions.

I'm finally getting strict about the picking up thing - I feel that he IS old enough to put things away and not just dump toys and leave them. Tonight I finally got strict about keeping the water in the tub - every time there was a serious splash I made him get out of the tub and use a towel to mop up the floor. I think if I'm consistent with that the water on the floor will be less.

Anyway... just my 2 cents.
Kathleen