Gifted explosion with family

[momsy]

I have a feeling that some of my opinions on this won't be popular so please be gentle.

I have a son in third grade who has been in gifted since kindergarten. He is now up for retesting. He is doing very poorly in school. This is not due to it being difficult, but due to laziness. He is failing tests because he does not want to read through the entire question. Will not do writing assignments because it takes too long, speaks out of turn because he has something to say, things of that nature.

His teacher (who I love) suggested that he be retested and possibly removed from gifted. I agreed. In my opinion, childhood is preparation for adulthood and 90% of the day to day things that you have to do as an adult are boring. I want him to learn these skills so that he can have a better life. If he is not doing there things than I feel that he shouldn't get to leave the classroom to do fun projects with his gifted teacher.

My mother is freaking out and saying that he will be bored and do worse. We are currently fighting bitterly about this and the rest of our family is being dragged into it. Does anyone have advice or opinions? This is a novel, sorry.

[LauraLoo]

There is a subforum under Parenting on MDC for Parenting the Gifted Child. You might want to try to post there.

A couple of things come to mind -- you dc might be bored in his current gifted setting or he could have a learning disability in addition to being gifted. It's not uncommon for gifted children to be "Twice Exceptional." Or it could just be something else.

[momsy]

Thanks, I posted it there. Do I need to delete this post? Sorry, I'm really new and not familiar with protocol.

[GuildJenn]

I'm coming at this from a grown-up gifted child perspective, so here are my thoughts on that basis.

If the problem with the not reading through things, etc., is inside the gifted programme, then it might make sense that he would lose his access to it. (Although I don't really agree with that either).

If the problem is outside, that is, in the regular classroom, I think that the risk is that the lesson you will be teaching him is just to turn off school entirely, not to try harder. Either he will take the lesson away that he is just dumb, and that will impact his self-esteem, or he will continue to be bored and turned off anyway.

If you haven't seen this article: http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/ on praise, you might want to read it.

My guess is that he's already started to make the (classic) gifted child mistake of thinking that "smart" means "no effort." That's a big reason why I think if you take away the gifted stuff he'll just end up feeling dumb, and that isn't what you want either. I'd also be careful about labelling him lazy.

What I would try is setting up a way to really support him in slowing down and focusing on details. Also working with him on respect, where interrupting is an issue.

After all he is only in grade three, that's not an age where emotionally he can necessarily exercise all the fine details of impulse control no matter how brain smart he is.

Could his teacher give him one question or instruction at a time on a test? Why is he so preoccupied with time on the writing assignments? Is there a way to work with him so that he knows he'll get the "fun stuff" and can relax? Has he been rewarded in the past for being "so fast" that now he thinks if he slows down he's "dumb"? What things does he naturally slow down on? Can you point out to him that he can bring those slowing down skills to his writing?

In other words, I'd treat this as if it were any other problem but /not/ related to his giftedness or not giftedness.

[momsy]

Let me clarify a little. My family is full of adults that were gifted children and we have all taken the same road, the hard one. My son IS being lazy. He does not like to write because it's easier to say it than to slow down and read it. He just skims questions on tests instead of reading the whole sentence. This attitude is also shown at home with chores. He will end up washing the same dishes six times because he will not get them clean the first. He is having this problem is his regular class. My other issue is that there are only so many spaces in the gifted class and he is in a spot that a child that is working hard could be in.

I am currently trying to go to school while working full time, having a child, and being pregnant. I don't want to see him make things harder on himself. I think that this is an opportunity for life lessons as well as school lessons. If after a year he is doing better. I have the option to have him retested and put back in gifted.

[GuildJenn]

Okay, well, if you've decided, then you've decided.

[momsy]

I haven't decided. I was trying to give more info.

[GuildJenn]

Okay, sorry for misunderstanding. I can really hear your frustration! It must feel like a big decision and be hard to handle your family's arguing about it.

It really does sound to me like there is a problem with him slowing down and focusing on the moment and the task at hand. I guess my question is whether removing the fun gifted program will help him address that in the long term or is there a different way to do it?

I don't have the answer (I wish I did!) I just wonder what would help him slow down. For me I find slow classical music helps (kind of occupies a bit of my brain).

When I was a kid taking fun things away would not have helped me, personally, slow down - when it happened it just made me more frantic about "blowing through" the boring/chores stuff to get to the good stuff. (You would think it would have gotten through, but it didn't).

I also just worry he will turn off entirely - that age is in my experience a time that BOYS in particular get the message that they aren't good at school (being neat, not wriggling around, etc.) and sometimes they really get turned off. That can be hard.

But you are the expert on your child! If your family is on your case and you truly come to the decision that's the way to go, tell them to back off and get them to help you do things with him to help him slow down a bit and look for the details in things rather than criticize, 'cause that's just no good.

[momsy]

Thanks, I like to have lots of different opinions to mull over when I make a decision. I wasn't trying to give the impression that I had already made a decision. Just trying to clarify where I'm at right now.

[Mackenzie]

I don't think that third grade is old enough to learn "life is boring". So not a good idea.

[JustKiya]

Have you asked him why he moves so fast? Is he rushing to get things done so that he can do something that he wants to do? Is he rushing because he's not interested? Is he challenged, or is he just making the motions? Is he interested? What does he think being gifted is? What does he think being gifted requires from him? Speed or quality? Have you asked him what he wants?

I was never labeled gifted, but then, I was also homeschooled, so the need for labels wasn't there - and I too, was a very lazy student - but I got good grades - I just did things my way. The only way to get me to slow down was to make things HARDER - so that I HAD to bring more of my energy to focus on it to understand things - making it easier just made me more bored, and less involved, and less interested in making ANY effort at all - why bother - I KNEW I could do it, and it wasn't interesting enough to make the effort to prove it.

As far as focusing on chores - the one thing that worked wonders for me was to have it pointed out that if I did it right the FIRST time - it would only take me x amount of time to get it done, and I could move on to something that I wanted to do. If I did it wrong the first time, it would take me at least 1.5x as long to do it, and so forth, and so on - the value of getting it done right the first time had to be demonstrated to ME - and the disadvantages of it had to directly impact me - otherwise, I would keep on doing it the way I was doing it.

I also agree with an above poster - 3rd grade (which is how old? 8? 9?) is still CHILDHOOD - life should be fun, and exciting, and challenging - learning that it's the same stuff/different day and you have to suck it up and do it anyway, whether you want to or not - shouldn't be one of his main life lessons, right now.

[rstump]

Originally Posted by momsy

In my opinion, childhood is preparation for adulthood and 90% of the day to day things that you have to do as an adult are boring. I want him to learn these skills so that he can have a better life. If he is not doing there things than I feel that he shouldn't get to leave the classroom to do fun projects with his gifted teacher.

I am sorry but I really disagree with your major premise here. Why is adult life boring? Mine sure isn't. Never has been. I have had a career and now I am a SAHM to 4 kids. Never boring...we have a blast even doing the laundry and the dishes.

Why does a child need to LEARN that life is boring? Why not teaching him about joy and finding things interesting in life.

I don't understand why he can't be a CHILD and learn that life is about living, learning, and enjoying life. I think that allowing this would make a well rounded adult.

[TigerTail]

i still haven't stopped learning- why stress that learning is boring or difficult? stuff still needs to get done, but if i thought there was no room for joy or freedom or self-expression i'd go wall myself up in a tomb right now.

the world needs creative people as well as plodders. why fit everyone in the same mold?

[TigerTail]

*

[Wolfmeis]

Originally Posted by momsy

This is not due to it being difficult, but due to laziness. He is failing tests because he does not want to read through the entire question. Will not do writing assignments because it takes too long, speaks out of turn because he has something to say, things of that nature.

His teacher (who I love) suggested that he be retested and possibly removed from gifted. I agreed. In my opinion, childhood is preparation for adulthood and 90% of the day to day things that you have to do as an adult are boring. I want him to learn these skills so that he can have a better life. If he is not doing there things than I feel that he shouldn't get to leave the classroom to do fun projects with his gifted teacher.

My mother is freaking out and saying that he will be bored and do worse. We are currently fighting bitterly about this and the rest of our family is being dragged into it. Does anyone have advice or opinions? This is a novel, sorry.

I agree with your mother.

I was in G/T all my childhood and I was threatened with this numerous times. The gifted children aren't being given a "treat" by doing fun projects with their G/T teachers. They're being educated in a way specific to their needs, which I promise you aren't met in rote drill.

Unfortunately, I also have ADD which was completely undiagnosed because G/T kids have a lot of similar traits. Had I been diagnosed then, I would have avoided a lot of emotional abuse through labels like "lazy." [ETA I am not suggesting you are emotionally abusing your child, but I WAS abused and they liked to say a lot of these kinds of things.]

While I agree that childhood is preparation for adulthood, perhaps we should also consider that it's called CHILDHOOD because they are children. Placing the expectations and burdens of adulthood on a child is unfair and counterproductive, because it just creates maladjusted adults who were never given the opportunity to develop in a natural way. Children excel at playing-- getting the information they need in there in the way best suited to their learning styles. No one person is the same as the next.

What does your son say? Does he want to stay in the GT program?

I am also curious as to what you envision when you imagine your dc's future. It doesn't have to be boring, you know-- that's what's cool about being parents to a new generation. You can teach your child to think outside the box and make the world they want to live in. I know fishermen and chefs who never went to college who have more money and happier lives than doctors and attorneys who I also know. All adult life is pertains to navigating the waters of society. Boredom is a state of mind.

Just my three cents.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by Wolfmeis

I agree with your mother.

I was in G/T all my childhood and I was threatened with this numerous times. The gifted children aren't being given a "treat" by doing fun projects with their G/T teachers. They're being educated in a way specific to their needs, which I promise you aren't met in rote drill.

:

And I think it's a very random and punitive punishment to pull him out of gifted services.

-Angela

[CryPixie83]

Have you asked your ds what's up? How is he feeling about schoolwork? What does he like about school? What doesn't he like? Is he bored? Bored is a baaaad thing for kids to be. Heck, bored is a bad thing for adults to be. What are your DS' interests? Get into his head, talk to him, and listen (really really listen) to what he says. And don't forget that play is a healthy part of a child's development

[quaz]

I also agree with your mom.

If he is gifted, then taking away the gifted program isn't the answer, just b/c he isn't applying himself.

If a child had learning disabilties, one wouldn't take away the programs just b/c the child wasn't applying himself.

There needs to be a middle ground to 'help' the student.

My fear with my oldest is that she will show similar behavior that you are describing. She is only 4, but I can see the trend starting. My bro was also like this in high school. In his case the very problem was that he was so bright. He was deathly bored in school, and the classes he did enjoy he could share with the teacher b/c he was reading theoretical physics books for fun. He had no mentor. In addition to that he did have several learning disorders.... adhd, which they later suspected maybe bipolar, and in addition ODD. He ended up dropping out of college, self-teaching himself and has a good job in the IT field.

His performance on the job is COMPLETELY unrelated to how he dealt with 'boring' things at school. I think this is one of the fallacies that gets progogated... that a child needs to learn now how to get through the boring items.

I'd recommended you have a serious discussion with the teacher and gifted teacher about how to reach him and help him.

Tammy

[jkpmomtoboys]

Originally Posted by Wolfmeis

I agree with your mother.

I was in G/T all my childhood and I was threatened with this numerous times. The gifted children aren't being given a "treat" by doing fun projects with their G/T teachers. They're being educated in a way specific to their needs, which I promise you aren't met in rote drill.

To take away his gifted program certainly seems punitive to me.

A gifted program isn't soccer or video games or something that's a treat. It's a critical element of any gifted child's learning experience. Maybe it's fun but it's essential.

I agree you should talk to your son without judgment. Maybe he has a learning disability. Maybe he's bored. Maybe he does have an attention deficit disorder. The inability to wait or read through things that are long doesn't sound like laziness, they sound like something he may not be able to control.

Of course only you know your child...

[kofduke]

IMHO, being gifted is a "special need" in the same way being dyslexic or having ADHD or requiring special seating in the classroom becuase of a vision problem. That's why gifted children get an IEP, the same as all the other special needs children. It seems to me like your DS learns differently, and really needs his gifted program, or else he'll just check out of education all together.

Have you gotten the opinion of the gifted teacher or just the classroom teacher?

If you pull him out are you sure you can really get him back in? In some states once you turn down a GIEP, that's that, and it's not reoffered. What happens if you get him retested? What if he scores even higher? What if he is shown to have a specific learning disability or ADHD that is concurrent with his giftedness? Or what if he now turns out to not qualify based on testing - if he does better in the regular classroom, you again wouldn't be able to regain the opportunity.

Also, and I don't want to lay this on you and I obviously don't know the whole story of your life, but it sounds like you're really busy - could he be searching for connection with you, and knows he'll get a ton of attention if he does badly in school? Could you somehow put aside the time to do schoolwork and things like that in a positive way with him, rather than only after a bad grade or something?


AND, totally OT - Jen, I thought I was the only person on earth who used the phrase recovering attorney to describe my job status...it's so accurate, isn't it?