Intact men who circ their sons - how to address?

[buckeyedoc]

I have noticed on a debate board that some fence-sitters (or people just looking for a reason to justify having their own sons circumcised) are very swayed by the personal testimony of a few intact men who regret their status because of chronic irritation or UTIs they believe are linked to being intact and who went on to circumcise their own sons to avoid similar problems. These men did not go out and get circumcised themselves, but forced it on their sons because of the old adage that it's much easier on newborn boys than adults. One man even claimed that he would forego some penile sensitivity in exchange for not having infections/irritation.

I think the whole thing is bogus. A woman with chronic yeast or bacterial infections would not have her infant daughter's labias removed to dry things out down there, even back a decade ago when it would have been legal to do so. People would have said with outrage, "The mom has the health problem, not the daughter," and, "There has got to be a less invasive way to deal with this." I also dispute that it is easy on a newborn to be circumcised. Sure, infant skin heals more quickly in general (as promoted by a pro-circ intact dad), but not if it becomes infected from healing inside of a diaper and in young babies whose adaptive immune systems are still trying to get up and running. Not to mention the fact that the foreskin has to be peeled/torn off along its whole length in the infant and that serious post-op pain relievers are available for adults.

How do you address this situation? These men are so wrong in their logic, but they can come across as so persuasive to the unquestioning sorts.

[moonmama7]

This is a really tough one. I know an Indian doctor (Hindu so I'm guessing intact) trained in India who cut his sons because it's "healthier" and "cleaner". His wife thinks it's better too and I don't have a medical background so I find it really difficult to argue with them about it (plus they're not having any more kids but I am worried about what he tells his patients, ykwim?)

[Nodtveidt]

How to address? Tell them that there are millions of men who would kill to be in their shoes...to be truly intact. I'm one of them.

[Papai]

If these men feel so strongly about that, why on earth haven't they gone and circumcised themselves? Clearly the foreskin isn't troubling them that much.

[Daisyuk]

Ask them if they've still got their tonsils, appendixes, gall bladders, adenoids, and everything else that they came with. Ask them if they're going to remove all those parts from their sons because other people sometimes have medical problems with them.

Ask them if they're going to remove breast buds from their children to prevent cancer.

Ask them WHY if they're so damn scared to have it done themselves because it's so "terrible", they think it's ok to put their child through it - just because he's helpless. Ask them why it's only adult men in America that are such wusses, and that Adult men in Africa don't apparently have a problem with having it done under just a local?

I don't believe they're real anyway, anyone can be who they want on the internet, they might even be all the same fetishist under different logins. I've never known any intact man who has even considered getting his foreskin cut off for any reason.

[lyttlewon]

That is a good question. When I was pregnant with DD I talked to my stepfather about this. He is intact his son is not. He said circing his son was a combination of things. It was the in thing for medical professionals to do at the time, he is 60 and his son is 35, and my SD had yeast infections as a boy so the logic that it was cleaner made sense to him. My SD is very into medical professionals and their advice. Not the kind of person to question the system. However he says in retrospect he wishes he hadn't done it. I think part of it is ignorance, perhaps willful, and a lack of conviction that intact is better than not. My SD was also from the generation of formula is healthier than breastmilk so a lot of the culture then was that doctors know what is best.

[4chunut1]

Originally Posted by lyttlewon

That is a good question. When I was pregnant with DD I talked to my stepfather about this. He is intact his son is not. He said circing his son was a combination of things. It was the in thing for medical professionals to do at the time, he is 60 and his son is 35,

This is very similiar to my experience. I am 66, intact, son 38, circumcised. My son was born in a military hospital in the south in 1969. We did not know the sex of the baby before birth, and my wife and I had not discussed circumcision, should the child be male. Circumcision was almost universal at that time, and we were not even asked if we wanted it done...

and my SD had yeast infections as a boy so the logic that it was cleaner made sense to him. My SD is very into medical professionals and their advice. Not the kind of person to question the system.

I never had any trouble with my penis as a boy (some yeast infections after marriage), and was happy with my foreskin. I was a career military officer and offered circumcision during basic training, but declined. But my wife and I never questioned medical professionals at the time in this matter.

However he says in retrospect he wishes he hadn't done it. I think part of it is ignorance, perhaps willful, and a lack of conviction that intact is better than not. My SD was also from the generation of formula is healthier than breastmilk so a lot of the culture then was that doctors know what is best.

Exactly my feelings now. Our son was also formula-fed, although I was BF, and I encouraged my wife to BF, but that was not the practice in her family.

I have a lot of guilt over our son's circumcision (not necessarily shared by my wife...long story), and in retrospect, one of the best things I can say about my parents is that they kept me intact. Sadly, my son cannot say the same about his parents...

[buckeyedoc]

I don't hold personally hold hard feelings toward parents who had their sons circumcised many years ago, since I know recommendations were different and consent wasn't always given. My mom said that when my brother, born in 1972, was born, the hospital just circumcised male babies as part of the normal newborn care (unless the parents specifically said not to - e.g. they were going to have a bris later). She seems to really regret it now that I have intact sons. It was just how things were done at the time.

I just wonder about some fathers now, where there are enough questions out there about circumcision that people should definitely be thinking twice about it.

[trmpetplaya]

Clearly they aren't having serious problems with their foreskins if they haven't opted to get themselves circumcised yet It's pretty sick and twisted, IMO, to advocate taking away someone's right to an intact body when you were allowed to have an intact body yourself and especially if you chose to KEEP that intact body.

Adults can get all kinds of strong drugs to help them through the surgery. What makes them think that babies feel any less than adults do? And the babies don't get anything at all... maybe some tylenol or sugar water. A lot of good that does :

love and peace.

[Bm31]

They are vulnerable to the same social brainwashing about circ as anyone else. If they truly believed the "grass was greener....," they would've had it done.

[phatchristy]

I have to say that my father (parents) had almost EXACTLY the same experience. My father was intact (he is now deceased) and my brother was apparently automatically circumcised. My father had NO ISSUES with his foreskin, in fact my mom claims he "knew" it was better to be in the natural state. My brother is 40 years old...similar age group as well.

Anyhow, personally I have no issue with my parents over what happened to my brother as they were pretty powerless to stop it. My brother also had a severe infection afterwards according to my mom and she was absolutely HORRIFIED about it. HOWEVER, I do seriously have issues with the fact that they NEVER told my brother what happened. Because, you see...my brother assumed that my father was cut and that he was OK with it. My brother then went on to have BOTH of his sons cut. :

My lineage is intact. My father, his father before him (and so forth) and my son are all intact. My brother's however...he started the "tradition" of circumcising in his family. It's so sad, makes me sad that my nephews are going to grow up thinking that cutting off parts of the genitals is normal and that they will never know what it is like to feel whole. :

Anyhow...something to keep in perspective. I hope, if your son has sons that they haven't been circumcised. Once the cycle of genital mutilation starts it's really difficult to stop.

HUGS

Originally Posted by 4chunut1

This is very similiar to my experience. I am 66, intact, son 38, circumcised. My son was born in a military hospital in the south in 1969. We did not know the sex of the baby before birth, and my wife and I had not discussed circumcision, should the child be male. Circumcision was almost universal at that time, and we were not even asked if we wanted it done...


I have a lot of guilt over our son's circumcision (not necessarily shared by my wife...long story), and in retrospect, one of the best things I can say about my parents is that they kept me intact. Sadly, my son cannot say the same about his parents...

[Daisyuk]

Can't you explain to your nephews what happened, and break the cycle? Their parents may not want them to find out, but you can ensure that they do.