Vitamin K - Page 2

[maxsmum]

I'd be far more concerned about the circumcision than the vitamin K shot. we did not do either of them

[mwherbs]

here is a link to a recent vitamin K discussion--

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=655075

[rmzbm]

First three got it, last didn't. Won't be having it for any future kids.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by TigerTail

(I didn't really give a rat's patoot about vitamin K; an injection is rather a small pain ...

...that may end up causing leukemia.

The baby is nor ready to have Vita K in the blood at such an early age and this can have consequences.

We did circ our son 36 yrs ago and did not give the Vita K. No one did back then, it was not available and thus not necessary. Same story as always. Once it's on the market it's life threatening to be without...

But I would never ever circ if I had known back then what I know now.

My three grandsons are intact (also vaccine and abx free).

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by maxsmum

I'd be far more concerned about the circumcision than the vitamin K shot. we did not do either of them

Please don't post that until you have researched the vaccine. Thank you.

[A&A]

PLEASE do not circumcise your son!

Bleeding is not the only issue you have to worry about with cutting your son..........it can also cause infections (including a virulent form of staph...MSRA), pain, trauma, disruption of breastfeeding, etc.

Please read this article:

http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...cumcision.html

And read my signature!

Also please feel free to visit us at the Case Against Circumcision board here on MDC.

[mwherbs]

they have not been able to reproduce the study and link vitamin K with leukemia anywhere else-- and part of science is that results are reproduceable.
something interesting to point out is that the area of England where they did the study originally is a mining area-- and here in the US where tungsten is mined or processed there seems to be clusters of leukemia-- so the meta study may have uncovered an environmental problem that did not have to with vitamin k at all---

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by tamagotchi

I know this is OT for this thread, but ... Again, you're talking about postwar generations of Russian Jews who for the most part are indeed not circ'd. I have plenty of experience with them too so I know what you mean. It would be difficult to find a Jew born in Russia younger than 60 or so who was circ'd as a baby.

It's the prewar generations, like DH's dad (who is 68) and older generations, who were generally circ'd. According to DH's dad and other older men I've talked to, in his youth you could tell who was a Jew and who wasn't by whether they were circ'd, and during pogroms it's said that sometimes that was the way they'd decide who to shoot (by having all the men pull their pants down). DH's dad says that was the main reason that Russian Jews, like his family, stopped circing in the postwar period, because they were afraid of future pogroms where they would be killed because of that. I've read elsewhere that the decline in circ among Russian Jews at that time was due to the "forced assimilation" during the 20s and 30s in which Russian Jews were pretty much forced to stop practicing their religion.

Here is a link with some history of Russian Jews. Earlier generations were for the most part very religious, "ruling themselves according to halakha" (Jewish Law). Later generations were almost completely secular, not following Jewish Law or custom at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...e_Soviet_Union

I see. Yes, you're right, I'm aware only about WWII till present time circ situation in Russia.

[SaraFR]

Originally Posted by Yulia_R

I see. Yes, you're right, I'm aware only about WWII till present time circ situation in Russia.

Tamagocthi posted some really fascinating information.

If I may add some more:
Being that my Dh is from Russia I'm actually rather familiar with this topic. We actually have a male relative who was given his bris in Russia many years ago (probably around WWII time). It's interesting to note there has been a trend for a number of male Jews in Russia (and those who have emigrated out) to choose to undergo bris at a later age. It's also interesting that many of them who have undegone bris don't even consider themselves to be religious. I personally know a number of men who fall into these categories (although I will admit it makes for unusual table conversation).

[Baby Makes 4]

Both my boys got the vit k shots because I was told that asian babies had a higher change of the bleeding problem that vit k prevents.Next time we will do the oral vit k.

As for the circumcision? Over my cold. dead. body would anyone cut a piece of my baby off. Oh, and they'd have to get past my rabidly pro-intact husband too. :

[trmpetplaya]

We did the oral vitamin K with dd, but I'm going to do more research on it this time around... I would not do the vitamin K injection. Only if I was cold, dead, and buried would anyone come close to a son of mine's penis with a knife. Dh would have to be cold, dead, and buried as well because he would just as soon cut off his own foreskin as the foreskin of his child.

I will forever be grateful to my MIL for two things (other than birthing my dh, of course) -

1. She breastfed him for 3.5 years - dh remembers nursing and thus is totally on board with extended bfing of our children.

2. She didn't chop off any healthy, functional parts of his genitalia when he was too little to give his own consent. She left the decision of whether to be circumcised or not to the owner of the penis - my dh. He is very grateful to her for this as well :

My MIL was a wonderful woman, and I wish she was still alive so that I could thank her personally for those two things. I didn't know about the extended breastfeeding before she passed away. We got married right before she passed away and it would have been weird to bring up the circumcision thing before we were married : Nor did I know the true extent of what circumcision actually entailed at that time...

love and peace.

[hunnybumm]

Originally Posted by Gitti

Please don't post that until you have researched the vaccine. Thank you.

I have to agree with the other poster, I would be far more concerned with someone cutting off their sons penis than getting the VitK shot. DS#1 got the Vit K but DS#2 didn't. I didn't think it was worth the risk once I did my research. We don't vax at all anymore so not getting the Vit K was the obvious choice.

OP Come down to the Case Against Circumcision forum and browse around a bit. Post any questions or concerns you may have. But before you go through with it, do some research. I had my first son circumcised because I didn't realize that it didn't need to be done. Thankfully I found the forum here and #2 was left intact.

[Quirky]

How could anyone be more concerned with what you're injecting INTO your son's body than what you're cutting OFF him?

If vaxes are harmful because they're interfering with a normal immune system, circumcision is equally harmful because it removes a part of the body that's specifically designed to be there. It has a purpose -- multiple functions, in fact. It's highly sensitive -- the most sensitive part of the penis, in fact.

A study just published in the British Journal of Urology this month demonstrates that the five most sensitive parts of the penis are all found on the foreskin -- and that the most sensitive part of a circumcised penis is the circumcision scar.

It is not possible to give a baby a gentle welcome into the world by strapping him down, inserting a probe into his penis, ripping away the adhered foreskin from the glans, crushing the most sensitive part of his body, and then slicing it off.

Compared to that pain, the pain of an injection is a butterfly kiss.

[Daisyuk]

I never was even offered a vit K injection, so it's clearly not necessary, and absolutely NO-ONE would be cutting anything off my baby either.

Circumcision is a barbaric mutilation that belongs in antiquity where it started. I can't get over how anyone could call themselves "civilised" and still support it. Only in America....

Are you planning on cutting up your daughters and giving them vit K jabs to stop them bleeding to death too? (After all, circumcised women are 25% less likely to get HIV, and most of those that have had it done are very much in favour of it for their daughters).

[SaraFR]

Originally Posted by Daisyuk

I never was even offered a vit K injection, so it's clearly not necessary, and absolutely NO-ONE would be cutting anything off my baby either.

Is the vitamin K shot given in the UK (I'm assuming that's where you're from and where you're refering to)?

[Daisyuk]

Originally Posted by SaraFR

Is the vitamin K shot given in the UK (I'm assuming that's where you're from and where you're refering to)?

Yes, apparently it's been recommended since around 1997 to prevent the 1 in 10,000 cases of HDN. I delivered before that, so it wasn't offered.

Unfortunately I think we're going the way of the US with shots which may do more harm than good, most of which are completely unnecessary in small children.

The only thing that might save us is the fact that it costs the health service money - no one pushes any medical procedure over here, they're too worried about where the funding is coming from.

[mwherbs]

well maybe in the UK untreated is 1 in 10,000-- someone else has quoted 20 in 100,000 there is a recent Chinese study with a rate of 3.27 per 1,000-- the info behind the studies in NY state is closer to the Chinese rate--- and I am going to have to say in over the years and homebirth midwifery not giving oral or a shot of vitamin K- the numbers of babies I have come across in other mw's practices that have had HDN, LHDN is most likely , 1-3 per 1000--

surgery like a circ can lead to hdn, and is sited in the lit as a source of hdn bleeding, if it doesn't cause a bleed then it still uses up stores and can be a cause of late HDN most common time to be found would be at about 40 days

[intorainbowz]

There is no way I would circ... EVER. I'm fine with the Vit k.

: on what PP have said.

Please do not circ your son.

[Lady Lilya]

Originally Posted by tamagotchi

DH's dad says that was the main reason that Russian Jews, like his family, stopped circing in the postwar period, because they were afraid of future pogroms where they would be killed because of that.

I have also heard a suggestion that part of the push to spread circing in the US was to make it harder for Jews to be distinguished, as a preventative in case of similar discrimination here.

I don't know if there is any truth to that theory.

Originally Posted by Gitti

Originally Posted by maxsmum

I'd be far more concerned about the circumcision than the vitamin K shot. we did not do either of them

Please don't post that until you have researched the vaccine. Thank you.

Please note that she said SHE would be more concerned about the circing. She didn't say that anyone else had to have the same concerns as her. We all weigh and rank risks differently.

[SaraFR]

I hope I don't get yelled at for posting this but I actually was curious. If you knew someone was going to circ. (ie couldn't be talked out of it, religious reasons or medical reasons-not that I can think of any medical reasons that would be there at birth but theoretically), would it be better to give the Vit. K shot or should the shot still not be given? What is the lesser of the evils? Is it better to wait till after the 7th day when the levels are naturally higher in the body and would that make the shot a mute point?

I hope I don't get yelled at but I'm really quite curious. What would you consider the lesser of the evils? I know that obviously, the preference would be no shot and no circ (MDC has a stance against RIC, as I'm sure we're all aware) but what if for whatever reason that wasn't the situation...

Again, please don't yell and abuse a curious poster....TIA!